[00:00:00] Tyler: It could have happened anytime, anywhere, but our guest story takes place in Santa Barbara, California from 1980 to 1983. Four short years that saw a giant leap forward in the development of West Coast surfing, design, performance, and image. It was set off by a rare combination of individuals, innovation, and illumination.

[00:00:28] against a backdrop of some of the best seasons of surf in two decades. Some have called this California's Halcyon Days, but many of us may not have known about this giant leap in surfing had it not been for a modest 19 year old Texan with a slight drawl who just moved to Santa Barbara in late 1979 to attend the highly regarded Brooks Institute for Photography.

[00:00:56] I don't know if it's still recording. The Texans. Would go on to document a [00:01:00]period in surfing that would go on to reverberate in surf in the start. The Texan would go on to document a period in surfing that would go on to reverberate in the surfing world for decades. Our guest, Jimmy Medeco from Houston, Texas has maintained a multifaceted, successful career path in fields of photography, art, graphic design.

[00:01:28] Fashion design, brand creation, development, and marketing by the application of one simple strategy, staying ahead of the curve, and in some cases, even designing the curve. We could go on and on about his accomplishments and career, both in and out of surfing, but we're here to talk about a small slice of his life.

[00:01:54] His recently released book, Shaping Surf History, by Rizzoli Publishing, [00:02:00] is out now. And it documents a very special time and place in surfing. It is the stuff of legend and lore. He documents the rise of a quiet and unassuming surfing savant, his mentor and shaper, a sudden arrival of a world champions and a crew of surfers that would go on to shape the future of surfing.

[00:02:25] I am of course, talking about Tom Curran. Al Merrick, Sean Thompson, and the Santa Barbara surfing scene. Jimmy Medeco is our guest on this episode. Welcome to the show, Jimmy.

[00:02:40] So congrats on the book, by the way, and, and, uh, Thank you. Also, congrats on the really nice New York Times review. Yes,

[00:02:49] Jimmy: that was, it's, it's so funny. I have so many friends that are authors and because for some reason, the, the front of book does not say photography fight by Jimmy Medeco it's [00:03:00] I'm quite often like referred to as the author and I'm the furthest from an author.

[00:03:06] All my literary friends are looking at me like. This just isn't right. The world's not spinning on the right axis. If you have a New York Times book review and you're referred to as an author. Well, it there, I mean, but I'll take it. I'll take it.

[00:03:19] Tyler: You know, it's not just a photo book, though. It's it is filled with all these anecdotes and little stories and little fun.

[00:03:29] You know, just lessons and everything in there. It's like. It's really good at capturing the whole vibe and feel of that time and era, or as I would imagine it would feel like, at least. You know, like I definitely got lost in it.

[00:03:45] Jimmy: That's always the, it's always the intent. I always feel like surfing is, uh, such a unique sport that you can paddle out, be surfing, uh, and sharing waves with the best surfer in the world.

[00:03:56] You can't do that in, You know, IndyCar racing and Grand [00:04:00] Prix or whatever, but you know, and so it's really, we're just a bunch of surfers and who you grew up with through your friends. And it just so happened, these guys were who they were. And so I've, I've always, that's the way it's always really been. So I always wanted to have that feeling come across.

[00:04:14] Like this could have just easily been you rather than me, you know, that was sitting here with this group and enjoying all this. Well, one

[00:04:21] Tyler: of the things I always love about surfing is for the most part, it can be. You can easily identify yourself in the things that are happening. 'cause you're experiencing very similar things.

[00:04:33] You know, like, especially like when you're, exactly, when you're a grommet and you're growing up and you're hanging out with other kids and surfing with them and you know, it's like, it's almost like it everywhere around the world. They're similar experiences there. There's no real difference. Exactly.

[00:04:50] Jimmy: No, you hit the nail on the head.

[00:04:51] And that's, that's what the group of people I hung around with in Santa Barbara was just like the group of people who hung around in high school back in Texas, or the group of people that hung [00:05:00] around surf was since, uh, you know, what their skill level was and their commitment to surfing and how far they're going to take it may be different.

[00:05:08] Um, but. It was just a bunch of surfers, you know, sitting on the log, watching waves, getting, you know, waxing the board, getting ready to go surf, and then afterwards going out and having a beer or pizza and, you know, discussing their rides. It's, it's surfing.

[00:05:21] Tyler: Right. It's um, there's a reason why many of us love Big Wednesday.

[00:05:25] You know, it's because it's kind of like that. You know, the movie kind of captures that. Yeah, no. I think. And like other, other things like that. And when I look at this book, like, and I see the ones that really, Uh, capture me or capture my kind of imagination are the standing around shots, like the one that you have of like the day of days, you know, and you know, you have Sam George, the daydreams.

[00:05:53] Yeah. Daydream. Yeah. Like, yes. Like that to me is just like, Oh yeah, I've had that. [00:06:00]

[00:06:00] Jimmy: Well, you know, what's amazing thing about that photo when I look at it is. Film was so precious back then. You shot very carefully. You had 36 rolls, and if you were serious about it, you had what they called a brick of film, which I think was 20 rolls.

[00:06:16] And that's what you had to shoot. So you had to shoot very sparingly. So, all those kind of stand around of the beat shots, those were one shot. Uh, a single shot. That you had to shoot and get everybody with the right expression and it wasn't posing where everybody's looking at you smiling Uh, it was trying to get something more interesting and interactive Uh, you know today Uh, I was just, uh, spent, uh, last Saturday with my wife and my daughter walking around Austin and we're taking shots, you know, and we're, it's like, you got to go through 60 shots of your phone to find one where you look good.

[00:06:49] You know, it's like, it's hard for me to even believe that back then that we would shoot one shot and, and, you know, nail it, you know, as opposed to.

[00:06:57] Tyler: It's, I mean, it's like so disposable [00:07:00] now that you're, you're way less careful and you're also like, well, if I do a live shot, right, like you can just pick the frame out of the live little bit, even that, that works for you, you know, it's, it's, it's crazy.

[00:07:15] Um,

[00:07:16] Jimmy: it is. And so I, I don't know how we did it. I don't know how I did or anybody did it back then, but we did.

[00:07:22] Tyler: Do you think like when you did shoot that, like were. Where it was everyone like just not aware. There's like, oh, there's Jimmy shooting off to the side or were they conscious of it? Like it looks it looks like you were just sneaking them in the photos while they were unaware a lot of it

[00:07:43] Jimmy: Yeah, that's a that's a really actually a really good question Tyler is you did have to kind to achieve this this This kind of like between, you had to be in two places.

[00:07:57] You had to be interactive with them, [00:08:00] communicating with them. And at the same time, you had to be a fly on the wall and you went in and out of that. Sometimes you wanted not to be seen. And other times you, you, you wanted to be there direct and you kind of went back and forth. And I don't think that's done as much.

[00:08:15] And just kind of this kind of shooting anymore. And like you said, really, everything's filmed now and you just capture a frame. And, uh, people tend to not pay attention as much because film is quiet. When back then you could hear the camera going off. Uh, there's a shot of, of Sean and his brother, Paul in the magazine at Malibu.

[00:08:34] And, uh, it was before they're going out in the heat and they're discussing. I guess, uh, heat strategy or what have you and Sean, uh, was such a professional when he sees a camera pointing at him, he would go into this. Sean smile. And so here I'm trying to be very, you know, stealth and incognito. And as soon as he goes into his smile, I just go like this.

[00:08:55] And this is back before I knew him. He didn't know me from anybody. And

[00:08:58] Tyler: here we're talking Sean [00:09:00] Thompson, right? We're talking Sean Thompson, Sean Thompson. I'm sorry. I want to make sure for our

[00:09:03] Jimmy: listeners. And so I was trying to like single and don't give me that, you know, that, that patented smile, just go back about your business and let me catch something candid and he immediately got it.

[00:09:14] But then afterwards I was thinking. You know, here's Sean Thompson. I don't even know this guy and I'm sitting here going like I'm going to slice his neck, you know, but it worked. He got it. He's an incredibly smart person. You figured it

[00:09:26] Tyler: out. I mean, it's hard to, that was. It's hard to not want to shoot though, Sean, he was so handsome, you know, and like, if he gave you a look, like, it's almost like Magnum or Blue Steel, you know?

[00:09:40] Oh yeah, no, no, it's...

[00:09:43] Jimmy: I don't know if this is true, but I heard somewhere that Calvin Klein said, uh... The best two face male faces of that era was Elvis and Sean Thompson. So, you know, the fact, whether that was ever said or not, the fact that that has been said, that he said it is enough, right? I love that.[00:10:00]

[00:10:00] But super nice guy. Um, Really, you know, wonderful human being and great person. He is

[00:10:07] Tyler: the gentleman surfer, basically. That's what we've all described him as. Um, I wanted to, before we really get into the meat of it with your book, I, I'm actually really curious about your upbringing. And, you know, you briefly describe in the book that your parents were world travelers and you were regularly pulled out of school for travel.

[00:10:36] And, so one, I'm like curious, like, what did your parents do that allowed them to do that? And, and two, like, you know, at what age did that really start?

[00:10:50] Jimmy: Uh, sort of work your questions backwards. It started, uh, at a very young age. And. I tend to, in, in context of the book, [00:11:00] talk as if magazines are still, and books are still what everybody looks at, and there isn't social media now.

[00:11:06] Yeah. And sometimes you have to, like, pull me out of that and go, hey, we're 2023. But, you know, for the readers that weren't around back then. But, to kind of explain that is, back in the day, if you wanted to understand about anything or understand about the world, you had to go to the libraries. My father was very passionate about traveling and history in the world.

[00:11:25] And we actually had an entire library and it was just full of travel books and full of all the National Geographics. And he would sit there in the evenings and go through them and plot out these trips. And he was a engineer by trade, but he was one of the first civil engineers, uh, in Houston, uh, back post war and the boom days.

[00:11:46] So he was involved in all the building development of Houston along with the several other, uh, of his peers. And so he, he did well. Uh, he never strove to be ginormous. He just[00:12:00] wanted to be big enough so where he could be free to travel and, um, leave his business for up to three months at a time and have, know everything was going to be going fine.

[00:12:08] And the way the business worked back then is you worked on projects and in between projects, you, you had time while you were looking. You know, we're setting up for the next big, uh, development and we would get pulled out of school for up to three months and we would, uh, get all our class assignments.

[00:12:26] We'd have all our, uh, Bring all our books and, uh, we would not open any book at once the whole trip. I, it was probably the, I, I remember I made straight A's in school and, and after, by the time I got to high school, I, I barely got through high school. I went to a college prep and I barely got through because I think the disruption allowed me to, uh, kind of look at everything in a different way and sitting in a classroom.

[00:12:55] Uh, listening to the lecture was just so far from what anything I wanted to do. So I [00:13:00] daydreamed, I drew pictures, I became a really good artist. You know, hiding behind the person in front of me, drawing waves and... You know, what surfers did and drew. As

[00:13:09] Tyler: we do, as we do as Grom's do, right. Imagining, drawing like lines around point breaks and reefs and how they would shape.

[00:13:19] Jimmy: Oh yeah, no I have, I have, I have... Folders full of it's of that stuff. Absolutely.

[00:13:23] Tyler: That's your next book right there. There's

[00:13:26] Jimmy: my next book. Yeah, no. And, and, and I surfed and we, on these trips, we surfed, we had kind of an arrangement, um, as I started surfing so young, I started surfing, I was about seven in Houston, in Texas.

[00:13:38] We had, we, we, when I was seven, we bought a, a, um, summer home down in. In the closest beach town, which was called Galveston. And, uh, and there are waves are not great, but there are enough to, to, uh, to learn how to surf and get stoked on. And that's why the magazines became so big to me because, um. [00:14:00] In between the weekends, when I was back in Houston, I would just, you know, be going, pouring through the magazines instead of my school books and, uh, dreaming about, uh, surfing.

[00:14:09] And then, you know, I'd say one out of every four weekends, the waves were really good. The other times you're at the beach, you dream it about surfing, you know, because it was flat. So I, I met, uh, uh, oh God, what's his name? Skip that. I'll remember his name later and I'll tell the story. But, uh, we would used to set up photos at the beach, uh, that were like what we saw at, uh, in the magazines.

[00:14:35] So we'd have the tripod and self timer and, uh, it was Campbell Brothers. Duncan Campbell. Thank you. No way! I met Duncan Campbell and there's all these, There's a couple of classic shots of him and his brother where they're standing with their boards and they have their long hair and I would set up shots like that of me and pretend, and then take photos of them and then I'd put them in a photo album book and pretend it was a surf magazine.

[00:14:58] So, I mean, it was [00:15:00] pretty, you know, surfing, when it grabs you, it doesn't matter where you're at, you know, you're. You're lucky enough to be on the North Shore, you're not, and you're on Galveston, Texas.

[00:15:09] Tyler: Well, I mean, I can relate, uh, being a New York surfer and, you know, another place where people don't expect there to be surfing and, yeah, once out of every four weekends you get waves, you know, and, you know, sometimes a little bit more than that, depending on the year, but, um, yeah, you spend more, you spend more time thinking about surfing than surfing though.

[00:15:32] Jimmy: Yes. And that's what breeds, you know, the, the lack of breeds passion and breeds creativity and the desire to, to be a part of the surf world. So where

[00:15:43] Tyler: would you travel? Like where would you guys

[00:15:46] Jimmy: travel? We traveled everywhere you could travel from the Khyber Pass to behind the Iron Curtain to Surfer's Paradise, you know, just through Europe, every, everywhere [00:16:00]that you could, um,

[00:16:05] Were you there was always, there was always boards to be had. So, I, I surfed, uh, Kuta Beach in 1973. There was an Australian there that had a board. Um, long, really big story about that, uh, for another time. Um, Well, we

[00:16:22] Tyler: got time, Jimmy. We got time here.

[00:16:24] Jimmy: Well, I'll tell you another story. So, uh, I ran into P. T.,

[00:16:28] Peter Townman, at the boardroom show, uh, a few weekends ago. And somebody said, I'll introduce you to PT. And I said, Oh no, I've known PT since I was 13. And they're like, how could you possibly know PT since you're 13? And we were, uh, we were traveling through, uh, uh, Queensland and we're in the Kulangata airport and, um, I, and PT had just become famous.

[00:16:54] This was, I think. May of 1973. He had just become famous for being in, uh, I think he got third in [00:17:00] the world title in 1972. And he was on the cover of, of all these Australian magazines that I was buying as we were going through like tracks and stuff in, in Surfing World. And, um, and so I saw this guy with this little blonde hair, this little blonde, weird, at that time would have been a weird goatee.

[00:17:18] And I, I went back to my parents. I said, I think I just saw Pete, Peter Townsend.

[00:17:22] And, uh, he's, he's like number three in the world, you know, and, and, and my parents go, well, the guy just loaded their boards on there. And I said, did he have a little. You know, goatee. And they said, yes. And, and, um, I go, I think that's him. So we're on the plane and on the plane. Uh, did you, did I speak this part before?

[00:17:38] Okay. Okay. Sorry. You have to edit that out. So I'm on the plane and, and so I get up to go to bathroom like eight times to walk by him and walk right by him and look at him and go, and each time I'm like. Yeah, that's definitely Pete Townsend, but I had no, no nerve to say anything to him. So we arrive in the, um, airport in Sydney and, [00:18:00] and we're waiting for our luggage and we're probably about, you know, 15 feet from each other and I'm looking at them and I'm looking at the magazine and, and then my mom finally just rips the magazine from me.

[00:18:09] She's, she's like, I've had enough of this. And she storms over to him and she points the magazine to him and she says, is this you? And, and he says, yeah, that's me. And so she waves me over. So. He was, uh, you know, he was really at that time, he was just probably starting to get attention, you know? So he was uncomfortable, you know, he's not the PT.

[00:18:27] We don't, not the bronze,

[00:18:29] Tyler: but yeah,

[00:18:31] Jimmy: not the, yeah, pre bronze Aussie, but he was very, very nice, very, you know, cordial and, and asked me about the waves in Texas and, and, um, and then. Uh, that was that fast forward 10 years and I'm a shooting Tommy him and young Karen's with the NSSA is working with Tom and him and I've never met, but we had that, you know, connection and I'm at one of the first, uh, actually sport retailer shows old ASR shows.

[00:18:58] And, um, [00:19:00] uh, I'm, somehow we meet and he looks at my tag and he goes, Jimmy Metti goes, and he goes, I'd like to introduce myself. I'm Peter Townend. And I said, well, actually we met about 10 years ago. And he, he looks at me like, what? So I explained the whole story to him and, and. We've been good friends ever since.

[00:19:17] That's amazing.

[00:19:18] Tyler: That's...

[00:19:19] Jimmy: So, and that goes back to traveling with my parents. You asked, did I surf and all that kind of stuff. That goes back to the days when I traveled with my parents. Now,

[00:19:28] Tyler: were they creative, your parents, as well? Or, like, encouraged that

[00:19:32] Jimmy: creativity? So, um, my dad, my mom was of French descent.

[00:19:39] My dad was of German descent and, uh, both raised my, actually, my mom was born in Canada and my dad was raised, born and raised in Detroit. His parents were, uh, immigrated from Germany back in the early 1900s, I believe. And, um, he was very, very left brain. Uh, and, [00:20:00] uh, she was a, uh, artist, very right brain. So I got that, uh, unusual combination of very, you know, methodical, analytical, and very creative and.

[00:20:11] Free, you know, the mix of the two and sometimes that's a struggle within myself of, you know, It's not clear which you know, as you think okay, you're kind of a mesh No You're usually one day you get the light switches this way in the next day the light switches that way and you frustrate yourself Because why aren't I do bring more like that and the next day you're on, you know You're thinking like a left brained person.

[00:20:33] You're like, why am I more not more like that? It rarely do you kind of flow in the two evenly? Because my, my, my parents, uh, had a wonderful marriage, loved each other very much, but they were opposites in many ways. And that was, you know, it was kind of presented to you as an influence, as two different ways to do things, not as one, you know, way.

[00:20:54] And I think that is, is probably, well, obviously the creativity comes from my mom. But the [00:21:00] bit

[00:21:00] Tyler: you're frozen now, but, oh, there you are. Okay. But the business aspect, I imagine like you've, you've had tremendous success in business and that would have come from that, that left brain your dad probably bestowed upon you, you know, like the mix.

[00:21:15] Yeah.

[00:21:15] Jimmy: And I think if only I had the left, I would, you know, in business, especially when you're entrepreneurial, uh, you know, you have your ups and your downs. And I think if I was more like my dad, I probably would have. Been up, up, up,

[00:21:29] Tyler: I'd love to learn about Texas surf history, setting you

[00:21:37] I was hoping you might be able to uh give us a little bit of um you know texas surf history perhaps as well i'm really curious about it

[00:21:47] Jimmy: so the. I have to plead ignorant on Texas surf history, and I think partly because Texas surf history, Texas is kind of divided up into regions, [00:22:00] and each has its own, it's like that probably everywhere, but each has its own little history. Yeah. Um, there, there, a guy, um, Dan Parker, I believe his name was, he wrote a, um, you know, those books that, What are they called?

[00:22:16] Um, Vince Byrne just did one on, on Rincon. Um, they, they pick a region and then they find the author and it has kind of the antique cover and it does the complete history of that region. Oh, wow. They've, they've done like hundreds of them. I, I'll, I'll get the information on what the publisher is, but he did one on what's called the coastal bend, which is, which is Corpus Christi.

[00:22:38] Mm hmm. And so, the, the surfing along the Texas coast because of the continental shelf gets... less as you go down towards Mexico, it just gets better and better. So South Padre Island is where traditionally is the biggest surf and the best, but then Corpus has the largest population close to the surf and [00:23:00] Corpus is really good.

[00:23:01] And then Galveston, uh, has its days, but it's the least, but it's close to one of the largest cities in the country. So it has its, so they each kind of have their own history and their own flavor because of. proximity to, to a large or not large amount of people. And in the Continental shelf, How, how

[00:23:20] Tyler: long, how far drive is Galveston from Houston?

[00:23:24] Jimmy: Uh, with no traffic, it's an hour with traffic, it can, you know, rush hour going through, like going through LA. You know, name your, yeah, you can make it a three hour drive if you, if you pick the wrong time, but, but, uh, if, you know, at night it's, you can. You know, you can make it a 55 minute drive, you know, depending on where in Houston you're

[00:23:44] Tyler: from.

[00:23:45] And was tanker surfing a thing when you were growing up? Like it, like it's become kind of over the last, uh, Well, so

[00:23:53] Jimmy: I started I started, I said before I started surfing when I was seven, it's because I have four older brothers [00:24:00] and, um, one of my older brothers surfed in the sixties. He wasn't very serious, but he had a few boards and then we brought those to our beach house and those were the boards that I learned to surf on and we called them tankers.

[00:24:14] And so I'm not sure if the rest of the surf world call those tankers. So, um, we would go down to the ship channel because it was long since known that these big, uh, oil tankers would come through there and create, create waves, or it's a place called Redfish Reef, which is where they deposited oyster shells and, uh, and.

[00:24:35] The times I went, we waited, you know, in the, in the Texas, you know, scolding hot sun for eight hours and no tanker went by, you know, we weren't smart enough to know that you could actually, you know, check the schedule shipping logs and when they're scheduled, but, um, a gentleman who I'm sure you're aware of James Fulbright, you[00:25:00]

[00:25:00] know, has turned it into an art form and a science and, and a business. And so it's called tanker surfing, but. We actually called it tanker surfing before you surf behind tankers. That was just a term for surfing longboards. Now, I don't know if many people would back me up on that, but, but, um, so the, the actual being known outside of Texas was, was a product of James.

[00:25:23] And then, you know, James has perhaps taken anywhere from the late Jimmy Buffett to, you know, Yeah. I don't even know all

[00:25:31] Tyler: the high profile people. Everyone from, you know, like Dana Brown and, you know, obviously in like, Oh, back

[00:25:37] Jimmy: when they filmed, uh,

[00:25:39] Tyler: Endless Summertime. Exactly. You know? So, I mean, I guess the one other thing I wanted to talk about and, and, and it kind of relates to, to growing up surfing in Texas is, and, and, and kind of even to me, even like, I I'm curious, like, did you ever, did you feel like growing up surfing in a place where.

[00:25:59] Surfing was [00:26:00] not really pervasive or, or considered like people would always. Do a double take if you said you grew up surfing in Texas or New York for a number of years. Um,

[00:26:11] Jimmy: and, and, and, you were, I don't want to say you were looked down on, but it was kind of looked as silly in, in, Less than. You need to grow up.

[00:26:19] You'd feel

[00:26:20] Tyler: less than. Yeah, less than. You know, and, and I would always feel that also coming from the surfing world. Like it was always like, oh, you poor people. Absolutely. You know, in Texas or New York, who surf, you know, that's, that's kind of surfing, but not really surfing, you know, like, Oh yeah. I

[00:26:39] Jimmy: mean, we, growing up in Texas, you, you went to California and most of us went to Southern California, uh, North County, Encinitas, the Caddy, all those places.

[00:26:49] And, um, and it was not good to be from Texas in the seventies going to those places. And I mean, I think a lot of Texans moved there and I, a lot [00:27:00] of the. Surfers now are actually kids of, Oh yeah, no. My parents were from Texas, but they're full on California now. Uh, when I moved to Santa Barbara, you didn't get any of that.

[00:27:11] Everybody was kind of from somewhere else and, and everybody was trying to, uh, be part of that Southern California. And so everybody was kind of on the outside and that kind of bonded us all back in that era. So I was

[00:27:27] Tyler: going to ask about that. That's what I was kind of driving towards was having almost like an outsider perspective, right?

[00:27:36] Like I imagine here you are from Texas and Also, like, you traveled a lot, so I imagine that also made you probably feel slightly outsider ish as well, uh, growing up where you did, and, you know, and, or, or kind of having a Well, I was always

[00:27:54] Jimmy: this kid that was gone for X amount of months, and then I would have to come back and, um, [00:28:00] And kind of like reacclimate.

[00:28:02] And then I always remember when I came back, I had to give a big kind of like presentation of my trip, you know, and sitting there in front of the client and, but, you know, we were, you know, it's kids, you know, starting back when I was very young, third grade, whenever our first travel started, uh, that I can recall, uh, I mean, your kids, you react to make quick.

[00:28:22] But yeah, I was that kind of guy that was there for part of the year and gone for part of the year. Uh, you know, uh, But that just was what reality was for me. But

[00:28:32] Tyler: I imagine that would give you this outsider in perspective, right? Like to look at things slightly differently. And I guess what I'm driving towards is like, when you got to Santa Barbara, like you.

[00:28:46] would be a little bit of an outsider, and you would have a slightly different perspective, and that was maybe what gave you that unique, uh, eye for the things that you did capture, [00:29:00] that maybe they weren't. I, I,

[00:29:03] Jimmy: I think that some of all those experiences is what kind of made it, looking back, kind of the right, me to be the right person there, and, and probably the biggest thing, Tyler, was growing up, In Texas, having the magazines be such a big thing, your whole, your whole view of the surf world was through the surf magazines.

[00:29:27] So when you look, when I was in Santa Barbara or when I had a camera in my hand, even in Texas, You still there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm

[00:29:35] Tyler: here. Okay.

[00:29:38] Jimmy: You need to start moving around more. There you go. Okay. Now I know you're still, um, I, I think I, I, I saw everything. Okay. I, it's kind of strange to say, but I looked at everything as if it was a magazine.

[00:29:52] It was like, Oh, there's a shot of the magazine. Oh, that was like, just like this shot, you know, uh, three months ago on page, you know, two 55 or. [00:30:00] You know, Hey, freeze right there. This is better than that shot that I saw in the magazine six years ago. The, the, the, you know, so I kind of looked at it from that frame of mind.

[00:30:10] Uh, it, everything I was experiencing, I was trying to think it, well, let me back up here for all the people that, that weren't around back then, pre social media, the magazines were everything. So when you say the magazines, the magazines, magazines, and you say that repetitively, that was it. That was the. As they like to say the Bible of surfing and everything that appeared in the magazines was considered what surfing was.

[00:30:41] So the goal was to be in the magazine and have, whether it was your article being written or your photos being taken or in the best of all worlds, the photo of you being in the magazine that established you as is completely bonafide. And so I had that kind of reference. [00:31:00] Uh, maybe stronger than people in California because all I was seeing was the magazines where Californians were seeing the real thing, then the magazine comes out later, you know, it may have been six months later, but they would actually see a day they were surfing.

[00:31:13] Uh, that would never happen to me. So I was like a kid in a candy store experiencing all this. And, and I, I've said before, you know, I would point my camera everywhere and shoot, and it was all like, you know, gold to me, you know, Well, it's, it's

[00:31:27] Tyler: interesting. Um, You know, cause I have a similar experience where, where I think both of us also grew up in wave star of regions.

[00:31:35] So all you do is flip and read that magazine. I don't know how many times you would read it over and over because, and particularly for you, you didn't have the VHS cassettes even that I did, but

[00:31:50] Jimmy: not yet. No, we had. We had a super eight that if you're lucky, your dad would shoot of you on the contest, if you're in a contest.

[00:31:57] And so, and you'd watch that 40, 000 times, [00:32:00] but what I'm

[00:32:00] Tyler: getting at is you would have this like frame of reference from the magazine, the images ingrained in your head, that may be someone who grew up on the West coast with waves all the time, so they don't obsess over it nearly as much. And so when you go and you're taking photos, you're seeing.

[00:32:18] In your head, a certain photo or a certain thing that you're referencing from an older issue of the magazine and almost recreating it or trying to, um, put your own version of it together.

[00:32:31] Jimmy: So, that's very astute, that's very true. I think the guys that I hung out with in Santa Barbara had that to a certain extent.

[00:32:41] Because they can't, they weren't from the, the, uh, Dana Point. You know, that area of California where it all started, the culture kind of started and grew from. So they had that thirst, and they looked at the surf magazines the same way. But not at, probably, the extent that you and I did, coming from wave [00:33:00] starved

[00:33:00] Tyler: areas.

[00:33:00] And, and I assume you're probably really talking about, like, the George brothers. Particularly well, yeah, no.

[00:33:09] Jimmy: So Sam and Matt were originally from Hawaii, then they moved to, uh, Oakland, and they surfed the San Francisco area. Then the San Luis Obispo, then Santa Barbara. Uh, uh, other than when they were very, very young in uh, Hawaii, they were not in, you know, typically what you would think is being, uh, uh, surf areas.

[00:33:28] Mm-Hmm. , um, uh. Santa Cruz was, but they weren't actually in Santa Cruz. They are above it and then below it. So San Luis Obispo was part of the lost coast, uh, San Francisco, Oakland. I don't, I know there's a surf culture for a long time there, but. You know, it's not till not too, you know, distant, you know, recent future where it actually, you know, is known as a place to go, um, back in the seventies, I remember, uh, being there once and there was one guy, [00:34:00]the ways were perfect and there was one guy out.

[00:34:03] Nobody even, even looking at the beach, you know, the San Francisco didn't care at that point in time. Um, but yeah, but even Willie Morris being from the Valley, uh, that was a strange thing to me when I would meet guys from the Valley and, and, uh, They, uh, I felt akin to them because they had to drive a bit to get to the beach.

[00:34:28] Uh, they were called Vals. I was like, why are you calling them Vals? You're from California for Christ's sake. You know, you surf Malibu every day, you know, but they weren't right from Malibu, you know. I think, took me a while to kind of make that connection. I was, you know, I had to drive an hour just to get to Slot.

[00:34:42] You're driving 45 minutes to get to Malibu, you know. You guys got it pretty good. Uh, but you know, even, even that, and then guys like Willie and Steve Morris and, and, and that group, because they were, uh, in the Valley when they had wake up, they, they may go to [00:35:00]Malibu, they may go North all the way to Santa Clara or to Rincon or beyond, or they may go South.

[00:35:06] Uh, Willie and Steve's parents used to put them in this big orange van and they'd drive all, you know, even as far as Baja. Uh, so they, so that spirit of driving was a big part of it because living in Santa Barbara, even when the waves were good, you have to be prepared to drive. And, uh, I remember I drove, um, you know, I had to drive an hour to the beach, not, and quite often you didn't know where the waves were good or not until you got there, until you actually pulled up to the beach.

[00:35:32] And, and I remember the first time being in Santa Barbara where it was. Not that good. And somebody saying, well, I know where it's eight feet right now. I'm like, what? You know, where it's eight feet. I go, where? And I go, I'll just about an hour, an hour. I go, let's go. You know, they're like, well, you know, I gotta, you know, I gotta go cut the grass.

[00:35:53] And like, no, let's go. So I was always, uh, you know, I ended up being the one driving everywhere [00:36:00] because I was the one that was like pushing everybody. Let's go, you know? And. And let's not just kick back and wait for the waves to come here.

[00:36:07] Tyler: In your, in your Granada and later white Honda Accord.

[00:36:12] Jimmy: Now, fascinating that you knew the Granada, but it was a

[00:36:15] Tyler: green Honda.

[00:36:16] Oh, green. Okay. Sam George was a little wrong on that.

[00:36:23] Calling him out on that.

[00:36:25] Jimmy: No, no, it was definitely, it was Hunter green. Um, yeah, no, we put some miles on those, those vehicles. I'm so. You, you're

[00:36:37] Tyler: 18, 19, and you get into the Brooks Institute, um, first I'm like curious what your portfolio looked like when you submitted it to there, uh, to get you in.

[00:36:50] Jimmy: That's a really good question.

[00:36:52] I do not remember.

[00:36:53] Tyler: I imagine it would have a lot of your travel stuff though. I, I would, uh, I would, I would imagine that, no, [00:37:00]

[00:37:00] Jimmy: I don't honestly know if we had to submit a portfolio back then, , I do know in our very first class, we had to make a portfolio based on what direction we wanted to go, and I made a booklet and it was all surfing.

[00:37:14] It was shots taken from the surf magazine shots, said I had shot the first like month I was there. You know, uh, there was an article on Bob Barber, you know, uh, Whomever was the, the, like, uh, interview was done at that time where I, whatever issue was out, and, uh, I did that book, I still have that booklet somewhere,

[00:37:34] Tyler: and...

[00:37:34] Did your teachers discourage you when you brought the surfing stuff to them, or were they encouraging?

[00:37:41] Jimmy: No, the, the way Brooks worked is you had, you, you had these... Three semesters a year, and you pretty much have one teacher and you're pretty much in their world for that period of time. Uh, and really didn't discuss much outside of that world.

[00:37:56] I did have one teacher that really got behind what I was doing. [00:38:00] And when the waves got really good and I started missing a lot of school, he's the one that kind of supported me and worked it out with the other teachers. Uh, I cannot remember his last name. His first name is Ralph. And, uh, he was, he, he got the whole thing.

[00:38:12] And, um, I was taking this one. It wasn't a full semester class. It was just a mini class. It was a nature class. And you know, it's just ironic. The teacher did not get it at all, you know. I'm outshooting nature. And so, um, I remember, uh, Ralph or Mr. Can't remember his last name, whatever I referred to him as.

[00:38:36] Uh, he went and smoothed it over, but, but yes, no. And I talk about it in the book and in 83, it eventually got to the point. It's just practically when going to school, I didn't say that in the book, but, uh, I probably, even though my, my parents have long since, you know, passed, I probably still like a little

[00:38:54] Tyler: guilty and like

[00:38:56] Jimmy: a little guilty.

[00:38:56] Yes. Um, [00:39:00] but, uh, yes. So the waves were so good in 83. Um, It just got to the point where it wasn't even whether I was going to make a choice. I was just going to, you know, and I tried to make it work. And, and then, uh, that one teacher helped me, you know, set it up and, and do it where I could just retake it, everything.

[00:39:19] And, and, you know, to be honest with you, Tyler, from my perspective, um, that was going to be three, four or five more months of being in Santa Barbara when the surf was good. So. You know, it all worked out pretty good

[00:39:31] Tyler: for me. Yeah, it sounds like it. 83,

[00:39:36] Jimmy: because of all the rain in the El Nino of the winter of 83, the fall was really good.

[00:39:43] Yeah. Because of all the sand, and we had a lot of good surf. Uh, so I probably shot more in the fall, actually, than I did, uh, during the El Nino months.

[00:39:54] Tyler: Oh my god, like, it sounds almost dreamy. You know, some of the, I mean, the [00:40:00] photos, like, speak for themselves. I mean, it's crazy. You know? Well,

[00:40:05] Jimmy: I, dreamy is, is, is an accurate term.

[00:40:09] It, but it just was so much that... I don't want to say you took it for granted, but you just always expected you're going to be there. Um, a lot of guys that were kids, um, like one of them was Paisel. He was, uh, I didn't know him back then, but we've talked since he was a little kid and he started surfing in that area.

[00:40:29] He thought the waves were like that all the time, all these, all these kids that grew up in that little. early 80s era, you know, I feel, I feel for him because it turned off in 84 from what, after I left, from what I understood, and in 83, just like, there was always surf. There was always something. You know, it might not be in Santa Barbara, but you could always get good, clean offshore, good sandbars, good conditions, somewhere, if you're willing to travel a bit.

[00:40:57] So,

[00:40:58] Tyler: you show up [00:41:00] in Santa Barbara then, and did you, Was Brooks Institute the only place you got into, or was it, like, the place you were angling for because of the surf, or were there other options? I'm just kind of curious what went into your decision making there.

[00:41:19] Jimmy: Uh, I wanted, I knew that I wanted to start pursuing photography, uh, kind of, you know, trying to figure out what I wanted.

[00:41:26] I was always, uh, very artistically inclined, and I was kind of tired of, And I, I had photography as a background from when we traveled. Um, and I had learned about Brooks and Brooks was in California and I wanted a ticket out to California. And, um, I didn't know a lot about Santa Barbara. Uh, as I said before, I spent a lot of time in North County.

[00:41:53] That's where I really wanted to go. Uh, San Diego, North County, uh, I think the, I think back before I moved to [00:42:00] Santa Barbara, the furthest I went was Malibu. Um, I, I didn't know anything beyond and all I really, I, I knew Santa Barbara. I, of course, knew of Tommy from that summer. Um, I've seen him at the U. S.

[00:42:12] in South Hydro Island. I knew of. Channel Islands, because a, a guy, a local surfer from Texas I looked up to, Mike Moldenhauer, uh, had been out to Santa Barbara, and he was riding CIs, but they're all, at that time they were just 7'2 uh, rounded pins, single fins, and, uh, And then obviously I knew of Rincon, and I knew the ranch was somewhere near Santa Barbara.

[00:42:35] I didn't understand the geography of it all, but I had always heard that Santa Barbara was really small, and I had this postcard, I forgot where I got it from, but it was like a two foot wave, and it guys, and it said, surf Santa Barbara, and it, the wave literally looked worse than Texas, and, and that was like, okay.

[00:42:54] You know, I'll go out to California and then I'll spend my weekends driving down South San Diego, wherever, you [00:43:00] know, and surf, and then I'll go to school in Santa Barbara, uh, and, uh, if need be. But, um, you know, I, I very quickly got, uh, connected with Channel Islands. Uh, As I talk about in the book, uh, that big connection came when I met Kim Robinson, who was the manager at Channel Islands.

[00:43:24] And it turned out he was from Texas. And, uh, we know a lot of the same people and, uh, he was super instrumental in, in getting to know Al and Terry, uh, Al's wife, Terry, and, um, and. I'm not saying he introduced me to all the surfers, but it's kind of like putting together a puzzle piece and, uh, I meet Sam and Matt, uh, Kim knows Tommy, I see Matt, Sam and Matt know Tommy, we see each other at the beach, next thing we know each other, Davey Smith knows Kim, I see him, you know, it just, and then Kim's, you know, talking about me when I'm [00:44:00] not there saying, oh, you need to go shoot with, you know, just how networking works, you know, some of it's, yeah.

[00:44:05] You doing it face to face. I'm up. So the people doing it for you behind and Kim was that kind of instrumental person You know behind kind of helping me connect all the dots and all the pieces of the

[00:44:15] Tyler: puzzle it's so I love how you describe it in the book how almost nervous you were going into the shop and Looking at the boards doing everything that we all the first time It's you know, like the thing that we all do we go into the shop and you Trying to show, like, I'm not a kook, I know how to look at boards, and there's a bit of...

[00:44:34] And

[00:44:35] Jimmy: I'm not from Texas, which is a big thing. I

[00:44:36] Tyler: know, exactly, until you take out your ID. But, you know, it's, it is so, you capture it really well in the book, and that kind of nervousness, and then all of a sudden to find out this guy... In the shop is from Texas is kind of huge and kind of very fortuitous for you.

[00:44:55] Oh, I,

[00:44:56] Jimmy: I, I can, you know, there's certain, certain memories [00:45:00] that are iconic and they just are frozen in your mind forever. And, um, and not just still shots, but like a video. Uh, I still remember talking to Kim. I still remember, uh, His reaction, I still vividly remember him saying, I'm from Texas, you know, and, and I remember my feeling of being, Oh, thank God, what a relief.

[00:45:20] I'm not going to catch crap for being a surfer for Texas. I think Sam George said, he goes, you know, I, I, I was gonna, when I graduated from Brooks, I was going to move down South. Uh, it was one of the things I was thinking about staying in Santa Barbara was another, I really wasn't. to Texas. Um, but Sam George always said he always knew I was going back to Texas.

[00:45:45] I go, why? He goes, well, you never changed your license plates. And so I had Texas license plates all the time. And, but that was really, you know, he wants to go to get their license plates or their driver's license or anything, you know, that was just, I was just [00:46:00] avoiding all that, you know, and I, I would put up with as whenever we, I, I would go down to, uh, North County and San Diego and, and, and occasionally on the weekends.

[00:46:10] And I would start catching a lot of flack, you know, when I'd be driving, you know, through those places with Texas plates or pulling up at, you know, name your

[00:46:18] Tyler: spot. I, I like the note that you have in the book of like, Hey, South, Southie, don't come back here. Souther, yeah. No, Souther,

[00:46:30] Jimmy: they, they, whenever. Yeah, yeah, the S O U T H E R is the term, yeah.

[00:46:36] Tyler: I love that. Clearly it was because you didn't change your license plate.

[00:46:42] Jimmy: Well, yeah, and that, you know, C Street's so gentrified now, it was anything but back then, you know, it was, it was, uh, it was, it was wild back then. Probably even more so before we were there. It's not that I really didn't... Didn't feel safe, [00:47:00] but, uh, it just compared it to what is today.

[00:47:03] It was completely different scene. It was unpaid. They, uh, the grateful dead was playing, uh, quite often in the fairgrounds and the hell's angels were the ones that were, uh, You know, doing the projections for the festivals and it just kind of had that, you know, edge feel to it, that edge to it. Um, but it, I, I, it was, I always felt pretty safe, you know, I, when I got that note, I kind of looked at it and looked around, see if anybody's staring at me and just kind of, huh, whatever

[00:47:34] Tyler: badge of honor, I would say.

[00:47:36] Jimmy: It's, yeah, looking back, it's a badge of honor. Back then it was, it was, uh, just, you know, doing business, what you had to do, what you had to put up with. There are far worse stories that I've heard, but most of them north of Santa Barbara.

[00:47:50] Tyler: Yes. Let me, I want, I want you to contextualize what Santa Barbara was at this point.

[00:47:59] [00:48:00] We, we kind of touch on it, but for our listeners, like, I don't think a lot of people understand like how Santa Barbara is almost like a backwater place for, for the surfing world, like people, you know, it was, it was very early. Local specific, you know, the, the, um, you know, you were, it wasn't encouraged to be flamboyant.

[00:48:21] It wasn't encouraged to be performance oriented. It was really stuck in that 70s localism vibe and they didn't want people to know about it either. So I was hoping you can kind of give a little bit of context of what it felt like and what it was comparative to the rest of the surfing world.

[00:48:42] Jimmy: There's a shot in the, the, it's the opening shot to, the chapters in the book are done by years, 1980, 81, 82, 83, the opening one in 1980, uh, is a shot of walking down the trail at Rincon, and, uh, when you look at it, um, [00:49:00] and you look at some of those earlier shots, it's like you're in the mid 70s, it's like you're in 75, and that's, that's what Santa Barbara felt like, and, 19, I got there at the very end in 1979, which is kind of important to me because I have one foot in the seventies there.

[00:49:16] Yeah,

[00:49:18] Tyler: yeah, I'm sillier. I'm sillier.

[00:49:31] Jimmy: So we have this down to an art now, where did I cut off at?

[00:49:34] Tyler: Uh, you were, it felt like you just arrived in late 79 and it really still felt like in the middle of the 70s.

[00:49:44] Jimmy: It was exactly, it was, it was like 1975. Uh, majority of the boards were, uh, 6'8 to 7'2, 7'4 rounded pins. A lot of red, yellow, white, you know, clear, uh, boards.

[00:49:59] No [00:50:00] laminates whatsoever, single fins, glass ons. Uh, black wetsuits, even beaver tails, uh, in 1980, there was a large amount of, uh, and I don't know when the last beaver tail was made. Uh, I mean,

[00:50:12] Tyler: you know, I, I think, I think, uh, one of the clothing lines, one of the, the free surfers are bringing them back. So well, maybe Joel Tudor has a wetsuit line that he's doing called beaver tail.

[00:50:24] I don't know. Well, they were diving

[00:50:26] Jimmy: wetsuits. So yeah. So they, how long they made them into the seventies. I'm not sure. But, you know. There was some pretty good wetsuits, relatively speaking, by O'Neal and even Rip Curl by, you know, the, the mid, you know, seventies. So. But that's just, it's, it's Sam George had an expression that we're all kind of on this bus.

[00:50:49] And, uh, and somebody says, well, I like where this bus stop is. I'm just going to get off and you go on, you know, where'd you go on into the future in time. And I'm going to stay here in 19, [00:51:00] you know, 75 and, you know, and I'm going to be in 1975 from now on. And so the expression is you got off the bus in 1975 and there was a lot of that Santa Barbara.

[00:51:11] And, you know, to be honest with you, a lot of that surfing, it was all about, you know, so much of the surf world and where I was at was about progression. What was, you know, what was next? What was the next maneuver? What was the, you know, the next new board, you know, who was the. Next best surfer, surfing, doing this or that.

[00:51:29] And, uh, but, but when you look back at it, a lot of these guys that, that did not move forward and, and got off the bus in whatever year, 19 75, 76, they kept progressing that style of surfing unbelievably. Mm-Hmm. . And I remember, uh, in 1983, this, there's this, um. Groupers, group of surfers in Santa Barbara, uh, since back then called the style council and they're, they're guys that, that did not progress with, with the, the rest of the [00:52:00] surf world.

[00:52:00] They, they stay with their equipment a certain way. And I remember watching this, I can't remember his name, but he surfed this one way that nobody else on a board at that time could have made, and he did it with such style and he, he did it in that 1975 style in 1983. better than they would have in the 1975, but it was still that 1975 style progressed.

[00:52:21] Right. And I remember just sitting there and admiring that was so unbelievable. Well, it would be years later, you know, 20, 30 years of the thruster before the mindset started to say, well, let's look at alternative ways of surfing other than the thruster. But there were guys that were starting in Santa Barbara back then.

[00:52:38] So I kind of argued that some of that in Santa Barbara, looking back was kind of the start of all that alternative stuff. And to them it wasn't an alternative, they just didn't go for the progression, uh, as we, we saw it, or as the magazines portrayed it.

[00:52:52] Tyler: It's as if, um, you know, the, the main timeline, it's a branch off the main timeline in the multiverse, [00:53:00] basically.

[00:53:00] Yeah. And like, it's as if, it's as if the thruster never happened and they just kept going off or the twin fin never happened. They just went off in another branch of their own timeline.

[00:53:11] Jimmy: Total multiverse, total Marvel, uh, you know, scenario. I feel like we're nerding out here. Um. Oh, but that's a hundred percent right.

[00:53:23] That's a, that's a hundred percent correct. And the thing that I was attracted to was, was the best surfing possible because. As a surfer, uh, surfers love watching surfing, doesn't, you know, of course we love seeing someone film our rides and let's watch our rides, you know, but, but, uh, we just love watching great surfing and somebody doing it.

[00:53:51] I've always said that for me, a surf hero has to surf better than I surf or, and, uh, the guys I wanted to shoot weren't the guys that could surf, you know. [00:54:00] The way I did, they had to, they had to go that next level. And, uh, and those guys were pursuing progressive equipment, progressive. Uh, moves, trying to break into the pros, trying to be sponsored.

[00:54:13] And those were like guys like Tommy and Willie and, uh, and, uh, Davey Smith and, uh, Sam and Matt. And all these guys were doing it effortlessly too. It, it wasn't. It, it, you could see right away that I feel like if I pursued. My surfing and really did hard that could I've been on the tour, you know, number 44 number, you know, 50 something You know, I could have you know done that and been a tour guy Um and live the life But that wasn't what I wanted to do I wanted to be the best at something and and when you saw guys that truly were that gifted it kind of like Killed it for me, you know, uh as as well

[00:54:53] Tyler: that dream I think you you said it in the book where And this takes me to a place I [00:55:00] wanted to drive towards was, um, you know, meeting Tom Curran and seeing him in South Padre Island at a contest at the U.

[00:55:08] S. Championships. And basically you kind of gave up competitive surfing after seeing him. No, there's What was that experience like? Uh, I, I gotta ask, like, it must have been revelatory for you.

[00:55:23] Jimmy: Well, I think, I think a lot of us, um... Think about our surfing. We, we quite often say to ourselves, whether we admit it to anybody else, or even admit it to ourselves, we think in terms of, in the best perfect conditions for our surfing, that we could really rip.

[00:55:42] And quite often, 95 percent of the times, it's not the best conditions for your surfing. And to watch somebody surf any wave, anywhere, and surf the best that, You could times 10 that's kind of like that that kind of shuts the door [00:56:00] right there and yeah Uh, there's a lot of things I got into and I either saw that I couldn't be the best Or I knew it could be the best And in both scenarios, I quit.

[00:56:10] And that was a problem I had to get over with because you end up quitting on everything because once you know, you don't pursue it. So when it came time to pursuing stuff professionally, I had to, you know, you, it's, it's the dollar you're looking for. Not just knowing in your own mind that you want to be the best.

[00:56:28] And that's kind of where I was. I looked at him on the beach and I said, you know, I've, I'm passionate about surfing. I love surfing. I've been surfing since I was seven. I want surfing to always be part of my life, but, uh, I will never be, uh, the best at, at surfing. Not anywhere close to it. You know, uh, to me, things have to go right for me to, to even be in the finals of a, of a contest like this.

[00:56:52] Uh,

[00:56:54] Tyler: you know, and what was that like then seeing him? Um, Like you, you, it must've [00:57:00] been pretty special.

[00:57:03] Jimmy: Yeah, I think it was probably made more special, uh, not just by me, but, but, uh, the friends I was with, uh, that we're, uh, all down there together with is that we're seeing him in our waves. And so it's one thing if you go and you get off a plane and you, you know, drive to the North shore and you see somebody, you know, take off at pipeline and get the barrel, you know, that you've always dreamed about getting.

[00:57:27] from the poster on your wall in your room since you're a little kid. Um, but then, but to see that guy do something just as phenomenal. And you're, you know, uh, I saw Tommy pulled in there. The couple of days were really, really good. And he just pulls up in this one way. And I remember they only position himself and gets barreled.

[00:57:44] Like we didn't even know you could get, we, we thought you weren't allowed to get barreled like that in Texas. We thought you could do head dips. We thought you could get covered and come out of the whitewater. But we didn't know you could literally find a barrel, time it so perfectly and, [00:58:00] uh, pull up and get in position and then come out untouched.

[00:58:03] And. You know, that was just such, and it's not like he was like arrived on a, you know, aircraft from another planet. He just was doing what we did just that much better, you know, just that much more gifted. And it's that little, it's that. You know, you can be 99 percent there, but it's that last one or 2 percent that separates all these guys and just puts them into another level.

[00:58:28] Tyler: How, how would you describe your relationship with Tommy at that time, then when you met him and during this time period?

[00:58:35] Jimmy: Um, I always joke about it. Uh, we became, we became good friends because I think we both were very singular in our pursuits. Um, he just wanted to surf and I just wanted to shoot the future best surfer in the world.

[00:58:50] Uh, That was like gold. And in the process became good friends and we were both kind of introverted. So we could be in a car and drive for an hour and not [00:59:00] say. A word and be completely content, you know, not like, uh, that person doesn't say anything, you know, we were both just fine, you know, you know, uh, you want to stop McDonald's.

[00:59:10] Yeah, we'll stop McDonald's. And, you know, that's what we would say, you know, that'd be our conversation and then afterwards. Oh, you got to get though. That one wave was really good. Yeah. Okay. Okay. You ready to go? Yeah. You know, that's, you know, and other times we had talked, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm poking fun, but, uh, I think we are comfortable in our uncomfortableness because, Yeah, As aggressive as I was to get the shot, I was still a really extremely shy person back then.

[00:59:33] And I had a hard time, uh, uh, like just at a, at a dinner, I would have a hard time having a conversation. And, uh, I was really good friends with, you know, people like Sam and Matt George, who were the complete opposite. And so that I was very comfortable in that situation because I could just sit back and not talk.

[00:59:54] And, and they were so funny and going off all the time. You just sit back and, you know, you. Walk away from dinner [01:00:00] having laughed, you know, your head off and not having, you know, contributed to it, but just sat there almost as a spectator. Um, and you know, I had my role, my role was the photographer, you know, to take the photos.

[01:00:12] So I felt very comfortable within that role. And, uh, and so when it came to get the shot, I was very, you know, aggressive, but, uh, you know, as a person interacting with people, I was very shy.

[01:00:26] Tyler: Would you say you're kind of like a wallflower then, you know, just kind of observing everything going on? Yeah, I

[01:00:34] Jimmy: think I was one of the guys, uh, I was one of the guys and I, you really have to put it in the frame of mind that there were.

[01:00:48] That getting the magazine was everything you weren't getting the magazines unless you're having your photo taken You weren't having your photo taken unless you had a photographer knew what they're doing. There are no iphones. There are no [01:01:00] video cameras uh A couple other people would have cameras occasionally at the beach on a on a big day at rincon But they weren't really didn't know what they're doing um, and so uh It was, it, I felt an important part of it all.

[01:01:20] Uh, and I knew surfing really, really well, and I understood surfing and I had a good eye for, for things, for what was, what was new, what was next, what was really good. So I got a lot of respect for that. And, and, and then I capitalized on that and took photos of it. So I saw things that other people weren't seeing that.

[01:01:42] You know, uh, we're good surfers and so I, I think I got a lot of, uh, you know, appreciation for that fact. And then I was just, I was like an animal. I was just very aggressive. Uh, you know, I, I think Matt George once said, you know, you, they would kid, you know, as [01:02:00]Girls liked me back then, but I was so shy that I would, I would, uh, I would, you know, I might bumble something out like at a party, but you put me like trying to shoot somebody surfing.

[01:02:11] I would, you know, put myself in harm's way and be super aggressive. You know, it's just kind of, uh, that was my personality back then. And, uh, I didn't hide behind the camera, but the camera helped me feel more comfortable and feel, make me feel like I belong. And I think. Probably the, the best part, and I look back, is we all do feel like we were part of a group in a, you know, kind of a loose knit group, and, uh, and feeling a part of that, we all feel a certain comradery, and I have my place, you know, Al was, was, uh, a good surfer, uh, but not, you know, a world class surfer, but he was a phenomenal shaper.

[01:02:51] And, uh, you know, and, and that was his part. Uh, but his part was actually more than that between Al and Terry and Chell Islands and their surf [01:03:00] shop and, and Kim Robinson stuff, that was kind of the loose knit community for us. Uh, you know, that we all kind of fell under the umbrella of. Uh, the surf shop and the factory were kind of the go to places.

[01:03:12] They would have the barbecues that kind of pulled us all out, uh, of our wetsuits and into normal clothes. And, you know, having conversations away from the beach. Uh, Did, Go ahead. Were you, like, Hey, let me ask you a question real quick. So when I ramble, are you gonna, are you going to, Like, edit it so I'm not just rambling.

[01:03:35] Tyler: No, I'm keeping the ramble in. And you're keeping the question about me

[01:03:38] Jimmy: rambling. Are you gonna edit it in

[01:03:40] Tyler: as well? Rambles are good! And I'm keeping this rambling thing in here. Like, I love this. It's, it's, it's his personality here, you know? Well, people have an

[01:03:47] Jimmy: afternoon listening to me rambling. They got it, right?

[01:03:51] Tyler: Dude. Gold. There's gold in there, man. Somewhere, right? Yeah. And I'll, I'll cut, I'll interrupt you when, when I need to. So don't worry. Yeah. Okay. [01:04:00] Hence, like right now, I wanted to, I wanted to ask him, like, obviously everyone knew Tommy was, was incredible as a surfer, but like, were, That was not a secret. And did everyone just expect him to win a world title or, or to be something much bigger?

[01:04:22] Like, did people know he would be? back then that he would be Such an influence that he was like was that pre pre

[01:04:32] Jimmy: destined? I think I think when I first got there, um, I think a select group. I think the people I hung out with myself, Al Kim Robinson Sam Metgeorge, I think we all knew Now there's a funny thing that happens when everybody's surfing an amateur in the real young They're figuring out who's who and, and it takes a [01:05:00] period of time before the period of years before you start realizing, well, this guy's really good.

[01:05:05] He's going to go pro up to that time. You might are trying, struggling to go neck to neck with them and, and, and beat them, and at some point you realize, well, I'm actually never going to beat this guy and he's going to go on being pro and I'm not, uh, I think a lot of. People were kind of in that phase when I first moved there, that Santa Barbara.

[01:05:25] Yet, uh, Tommy's good. He's just a little bit better than us, but we're going to be pros too. And I think, I think very quickly through 81, it started to become very apparent, uh, to anybody who had that feeling that he was. But to somebody like me who saw him in Texas, uh, I knew that, you know, he was a, what was a world champion back then, you know, it was a very, it wasn't like it was now, but I knew he was going to be the equivalent of the, of the, you know, the Sean Thompson's and the Peter Townsend's and, you know, It's such [01:06:00]

[01:06:00] Tyler: high in my head.

[01:06:02] I have this vision of like him being almost like the chosen one and and all of you around there knowing it almost biblical in a sense. It got that way. It got, you know, and like all these, like this George brothers kind of helping to shepherd him in the right direction and Al and everyone kind of trying to keep them on the right path and protect them to a certain extent.

[01:06:25] Like that's a

[01:06:25] Jimmy: very accurate representation other than the fact That it wasn't, there was no,

[01:06:35] it was, it was all done in a very normal, you know, friendly level that wasn't like a deity or, you know, yeah, you know, there was no sanctity to it. It was, it was, it was, um, but the fact that he was. Uh, when you say the chosen one, I think of an Eddie Murphy, the old Eddie Murphy. I love

[01:06:55] Tyler: that movie. I either think of that or Anakin [01:07:00] Skywalker, you know, so.

[01:07:01] No, right. Um,

[01:07:04] Jimmy: yeah, if you, if you take all the theatrics out of it and, and you just make it regular people interacting, yes, that's, that's a hundred percent true, I think. I, you know, and, um, the, the feeling I think, and I speak for myself as much as anything is. There's kind of two things going on. There's one is you're very excited to be a part of all of it.

[01:07:26] It's not you, you know, we all start surfing and we all want to be and have these dreams of being the best surfer in the world and the, when the, you know, like the old, uh, Spicoli, you know, seeing where he's dreaming and he's.

[01:07:43] Tyler: You know, and then you realize you're just living in Tommy's movie, basically.

[01:07:47] Right?

[01:07:48] Jimmy: Well, no, you got, it's, it's your movie, it's your movie, but, um, but what makes your movie is pretty [01:08:00] exciting. Because of what you're doing. But Tommy is like the icing on the cake that makes it extra special. Is there somebody like you in every community, but that, and really good surfers and surfers that may be big names go on to be big names, you know, without mentioning that we've all know, but Tommy and his ability, uh, made everything you were doing a part of seeing that much more special.

[01:08:26] Um, does that make sense? Am I saying that right? Yeah,

[01:08:30] Tyler: no, absolutely. It totally does. It's, you're, you're kind of able to, to, you, I imagine you knew that this was a special time period, and that this was, you were documenting something unique. Is that fair to say? Was, were you aware of that to a

[01:08:50] Jimmy: certain extent?

[01:08:51] Absolutely, and, uh, and then it became to fruition. And then the actual him winning the world [01:09:00] titles became important, and became, uh, notable, and became unbelievable. And the time It's validation,

[01:09:06] Tyler: too. Well, the time leading up to it It's like incredible validation for you.

[01:09:09] Jimmy: But the time leading up to it became, uh Yeah.

[01:09:13] Wasn't important anymore. Because that was just time leading up to the world titles. It was actually winning the world titles. So it's only years later, looking back, that you're able to enjoy, and the book is able to have a place, of looking at what was happening before that. Uh, before those first world titles.

[01:09:31] I think the first one was 85.

[01:09:34] Tyler: How did Tommy shoulder that type of, uh, expectation, do you think? I mean, obviously very well, I think. But, you know, like, it must have, for someone so quiet, And, and shy as Tommy, uh, you know, I imagine that must have been kind of awkward too. Yeah. Like, for him. The attention, at least.

[01:09:57] Jimmy: Yeah, no, I think you're, you're saying everything fairly [01:10:00] accurate. Um, the, the difference between the difference back then, it was all new and there was all the excitement of what was to come. And I think that was for everybody, but in for Tommy as well. Um, you know, I think if you're able to paddle out in a heat, uh, at the OP pro and the, in 82 or 83 or all those other years where the, the pier was fully loaded and there's thousands of people there and you're able to block all that out and win a contest.

[01:10:28] Um, You have in most, uh, most of the guys that I know at that level, it's just built into them the ability just to put everything out of their mind and focus and get in the zone and do what they need to do and, and that kind of scenario that we all, you know, talk about from Michael Jordan to whomever, uh, in sports also carries over into everything else they do.

[01:10:54] Uh, so they're able to block out, uh, anything just, you know, Through the course of the day that [01:11:00] they, they don't. And Tommy is always, he's always struck me as somebody that certainly wants attention and credit for what he's done. Well, he's just not, is interested in, in any, any, any more attention or credit than that.

[01:11:15] You know, the, the glorification of it all. And that's where I think it makes them awkward. Uh, I think it makes most of us awkward unless you're really, you know, extremely, you know, desiring of it. Uh, which, uh, we see, we know people are, and quite often we love them for it. You know, sometimes we hate them for it, you know, depending on who they are.

[01:11:34] But, but in Tommy's case, uh, uh, I've always felt like it, it's just, that's not important to him. And, um. You know, if you sat there and, and started talking to him about the surf and how the good, the surf was and how good of a surf session you had, he was far more interested in that way more than you telling him how good he served.

[01:11:58] Yeah. Yeah. [01:12:00] Uh, he's always been somebody that, uh, amazingly, uh, takes great interest in whatever you're doing and talking about. I, I don't know if I said this in the book or not, but. The really fascinating thing was, is he, everybody wanted to look at the photos afterwards, uh, that I shot, because that was the...

[01:12:18] Again, harping back to the time where there were no videos, you couldn't instantly see yourself. You would take the photos, they'd be sent off to Kodak for development, and a week later they'd come back. And these would be the first chance you would have to see yourself surfing, um, as a surfer. And especially as a professional surfer, where you're basing your career off of it.

[01:12:39] So everybody wanted to see how they surfed. I know I did, everybody did. Tommy never had interest in seeing the photos, and if I had a really good... Day and got good shots and told him he was, he was more happy for me that I'd gotten good shots, , you know, and that I was happy and was gonna send him the magazine.

[01:12:56] And he was happy for me if they got published. Not that the shot of him. [01:13:00] Now I'm not saying that that being in the cover didn't mean something to him. Yeah. But uh, it, it, it, I, he, he tended to be more like if, if, if we had a, if when I say we, a shot I took that he was in, was, uh, in a magazine, he was more happy for me that I got it in there than.

[01:13:19] He seems,

[01:13:21] Tyler: from my, my, you know, interactions with him, and that I've, you know, I've been fortunate enough to interview him, and, you know, he does not seem self absorbed at all. Like, there's no, like, it doesn't appear at all like he ever even thinks about himself. Like, it's always, more outward, you know, or more, you know, he's much more listening as opposed to promoting himself at all.

[01:13:51] He's very, he's very,

[01:13:52] Jimmy: he's very into his thoughts and, and the, and, and thinking about how things are. Uh, I, I agree with you a [01:14:00] hundred percent. I, I can't, I can't think of any time where he was, uh, uh, self absorbed about anything about him. Now, not to say, because back then I was probably seeing him surf more than anybody.

[01:14:12] You know, through my camera lens that as he's trying to, as he's going back and forth with Alan working on, you know, sometimes they were, are you still there? Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm here. Well, actually it froze for a second. Your eyes were closed. Like, okay, I'm putting him to sleep. I know that's not the case, but you know, just the way our mind works is like, okay, I've actually snoozed him away.

[01:14:36] So where was I?

[01:14:39] Tyler: You, you've never seen himself absorbed or about himself

[01:14:43] Jimmy: at all. So back in that time period where they were going through a lot of boards and the waves were phenomenal and they would try a board, Tommy would surf it once, Al would watch him and then immediately go back to shape room and shape another one for the next day.

[01:14:55] Uh, I was seeing all that surfing. I was seeing it more than, than probably Al or anybody. [01:15:00] Um, so in trying to figure out all that equipment and improve the equipment and move towards At that time, which, you know, it all started going towards amateur titles, world titles, you know, and eventually the tour, the pro tour, uh, it's not that he would not ask me about how he was surfing on a board only because he knew that I saw how he surfed on the board before and knew whether or not that was, uh, uh, Working well for him, but that was more of an analytical thing than it was.

[01:15:32] Hey, did you see that bottom turn? I don't think he ever No, no.

[01:15:35] Tyler: It's not that, I don't It's like, does this board work? You know, it's more about, is the board working for him? Yeah, so I think Things of that nature, I imagine. I

[01:15:41] Jimmy: think some of the best shots that most iconic shots that I've gotten of him, when he was actually doing it, I think he was enjoying it every bit as much as we do.

[01:15:51] Yeah. And I think he was enjoying it, like we all do, somebody else seeing us do that maneuver. But I don't think it, it, there [01:16:00] was the, the need to go out and go beyond, you know, just the moment, if that makes sense. I,

[01:16:06] Tyler: I loved one of the stories in there, how you, you talked about how you, I think, I think it was in there, or maybe it was your Halcyon, uh, Days article, where you talk about, uh, Al, Al Merrick asking your opinion on how Tommy was surfing one of his latest shapes.

[01:16:23] And how you felt that was almost validating or feeling like accepted into. Everything, you know?

[01:16:30] Jimmy: Yeah, no, I mean, that was, that was in the original Surfer's Journal, Journal Clock. Yes. The Halcyon Days. And that was at, uh, Butterfly Lane on a very small two foot day. And I was pulled up behind, uh, uh, Al. Al had this yellow Toyota and a bunch of new boards for Tommy to try out.

[01:16:48] And it was like two foot slop in the rain. And, um, I was in the pastor's seat watching Tommy and he asked me what I thought. And, uh, which was kind of funny because it was, it was like, we've been considered a [01:17:00] bad day in Texas, you know, but, you know, that's the, getting back to what I said way earlier, that's kind of, uh, you know, what we all think of ourselves, yeah, we can win that contest.

[01:17:11] If it was the perfect wave, the perfect word, perfect everything, you know, that's it's slop half the time. And, uh, you know, there's, there's. I, I remember, uh, the late day, Brown used to sometimes, uh, take, uh, Chris and his buddies, uh, and drive past Perfect Rincon to go surf slop, uh, just to make, because they weren't going to be the next day.

[01:17:35] If that was a Friday afternoon, the next Saturday morning, they weren't going to be an NSA contest in Perfect Rincon. You know, they're going to be in slop. So, uh, you know, that's just. That's surfing most of the time and competitive surfing, you know, except for

[01:17:49] Tyler: what, what was Al like as a person then and, and how is Like your introduction to him and, and, you know, and, [01:18:00] and I'm curious like what you saw between his relationship and, and Tommy and, and his relationship with the rest of the, the, the, the community, the crew there as well.

[01:18:11] Like, he's such a. He's so influential in surfing, you know, it's really interesting But he seems like such a grounded humble person and I was just curious like your thoughts Like what what what type of person was he or is he well,

[01:18:28] Jimmy: that's a lot to unpack there. Yeah, but but you know a funny thing about Al is when you're talking to people and You know rarely do you hear someone so Al's a great shaper You know, you always hear, you know, Al's such a good person, Al's such a good guy, you know.

[01:18:47] Uh, it doesn't matter how great of a Shaper he was, uh, above it all, in the way, in the way he is, in the way he lives his, his life, in the way Terry does, um, you know, that's what you know them [01:19:00] for. Uh, the fact that he's this phenomenal Shaper, um, Yes, it's a part of it, but you know them because they're, you know, they're such good people.

[01:19:08] Um, they, they reminded me, they were a little older than us, not that much, but at that time that seemed like a lot, and they remind me of a younger version of my parents, so I gravitated towards them because they had a, uh, uh, they have a wonderful, uh, marriage and relationship, and they are raised, you know, wonderful family with Britt and Heidi, and I kind of is that was kind of very close to, to what I had.

[01:19:33] Uh, I, I, I felt awkward around Al back in those days because he was a little bit older. Uh, and I was his shy kid. And, um, I remember the first time I, I, uh, had to shoot out was, uh, was a request from, uh, Art Brewer when he was still photo editor at Surfer. And, um, so I went into Kim and I said, you know, I have to shoot Al.

[01:19:57] And, you know, the first thing, well, you know, I went to [01:20:00] Brooks. He goes, uh, Al doesn't like shooting with guys at Brooks.

[01:20:07] And so the way I sum up Al is this, it's, there's four photos of Al. You go in to shoot Al and he's looking at you. Like with this deadpan look and I can show you every time I shoot him four photos that fits this and it's like You're wasting my time. I do not want to be here get this over quick so I can go and Shape surfboards the second shot.

[01:20:32] He's trying a little bit and he's You know, putting a little effort in. The third shot, he's smiling. The fourth shot, it gets so goofy that you can't ever show the photos except for in a, we would show them at slideshows at his barbecue, kind of in a roast kind of, uh, uh, atmosphere. And so, and so what that told me is that there's a, there's a part of Al that's like me, you know, where I, I have to [01:21:00] warm up and be comfortable.

[01:21:00] And, and, you know, I kind of put on this. Blank face sometimes just because I'm kind of like shy and and uncomfortable not because I'm trying to make you, you know, uncomfortable

[01:21:14] His relationship with with Tommy what I saw Was, uh, you know, very nurturing, you know, uh, trying to help out, you know, uh, Tommy knowing that, uh, Tommy needed, uh, good boards and good guidance. And, and Tom, uh, I mean, Al was instrumental in. A lot of the initial, uh, negotiations and, you know, I want to be careful because I, I don't know everything that he did.

[01:21:42] I don't want to speak incorrectly, but I know that he was heavily involved in his first contracts and, and Tommy needed that guiding, you know, this is before there were managers and, you know, before it is the way it is. Handlers and all that. Yeah, it was nothing like that. And that was one beautiful thing about that era is everything was, was, uh, I've said [01:22:00] this before there.

[01:22:02] Surf content, professional surf contests, and I don't know how you change it, and I'm not saying it's wrong the way it is now, but something was lost in professional surf contests when, when there became contestant areas only. Yeah. I get it. You know, uh, how would you ever go to Brazil and not have a contestant area only?

[01:22:21] Uh, you can't just hang out in a group by a, you know, make a little fire with the. With the rocks and, and driftwood, you know, and, and watch surf with your buddies as what you would have back in the, in the early eighties, uh, they, people would have had little camps set up based on who they're associated with through their surfboard maker, through their surf shop.

[01:22:43] And you can walk up to anyone and sit down and start talking. You know, now it's, it's so different. So that was kind of a beautiful part of that time. How did we sidetrack? How did I sidetrack

[01:22:53] Tyler: off into that? No, not at all. You're, you're, you're flowing smoothly. I, I [01:23:00]think, I wonder also like how much, you know, Pat Curran not being there for Tommy a lot of his youth and how much Al stepped in as, as almost a surrogate.

[01:23:15] Jimmy: I can't speak to that much. Um, yeah, uh, Pat was there in the very beginning. Uh, uh, you know, I, I remember Pat well from the very beginning. Um, I think maybe what's more important is, um, is, uh, Tom's mother, Janine was, was so unbelievable. Uh, No matter, Pat, Al, anybody. Uh, I mean if you think about it, when I first met Tom, that was from her driving Tom, uh, and Tom's brother Joe and sister Anna, uh, to Texas, you know, 26 hour drive.

[01:23:54] She would drive it straight, 1500 miles, just surfing the contest. And then she did the year before, she did the same thing, [01:24:00] driving out to, uh, Cape Hatteras. Uh, And her dedication to, to, uh, getting him where it need to be even went into, uh, if there wasn't, you know, a contest director, then, well, then she became the contest director in order to keep the ball rolling and, and everybody happy, not just Tom, but everybody else having the contest.

[01:24:19] So. She was, she, she was phenomenal. And, uh, you know, as a, now as a parent, you know, as growing up as a parent, looking back, it was just amazing what she was able to accomplish and do long before the mold of a, of a surf parent was, you know, existing, uh, she, in a lot of ways, she defined that role that you see duplicated over and over again in, in California, uh, She kind of defined what that role was, uh, as well as some other people at that time, uh, uh, Willie and Steve's, uh, parents, uh, the Morrises, uh, and there were others for sure.

[01:24:58] But, but [01:25:00] I think that is probably, I just don't think Tommy would be Tommy without, uh, With his mother Janine, uh, you know, it's been long. It's been asked many times. Would Al still be Al without Tommy, with Tommy G? You know, I don't even like to answer that question is that's like we're talking about, you know, parallel universes.

[01:25:19] Yeah, it's multiverse Yeah, it's that's not the way it happened at least in our little, you know, verse. So not in

[01:25:26] Tyler: universe 686 or 6. 6 Whatever, you know,

[01:25:29] Jimmy: yes, I tend to stick to what did happen in and I think their relationship. I think Al and Tommy's relationship was Was really special and was really unique and, and what we do know is together and then combined with the waves, it was, it was able to, to achieve some rapid growth at just the right time.

[01:25:52] And then I'm the guy was just lucky enough there to, uh, To shoot it, and because of my background and, from Texas, of wanting [01:26:00] so bad to be a part of all this, I was just willing to shoot absolutely everything, you know, uh, and be pretty, pretty thorough about it, so I was able to come up with the book.

[01:26:12] Tyler: I, I feel like there needs to be a book one day about surf moms.

[01:26:18] You know, like, I think there's so many incredible surfers who owe so much to their mothers and I feel like they don't get enough credit. I think Tommy Cur Tommy's mom Tommy and his mom is one example. Kelly and his mother is another example. I know, like, Todd Holland and his mom were really integral together.

[01:26:37] Like, it was just You look at Mick Fanning and his mother even, like you just see, they really don't get enough credit, I feel like, too. Well, so, I

[01:26:47] Jimmy: was taught to surf by Beth Fisher, who was, who, like I was seven, she was like twelve, and she lived, she had a house behind us, a beach house behind us, and she taught me how to surf.

[01:26:57] Um, probably one of my biggest [01:27:00] influences, um, to move out to California to do all this was a, um, Uh, surfer by the name of Karen McKay, who is from Texas, who actually won the U. S. at, uh, one year, the women's in the U. S. Wow, I can't remember one year. Uh, she was a major influence for me and a good buddy of mine, Jimmy Rudman, who uh started, uh Uh, liquid force.

[01:27:22] He, he's one of the

[01:27:25] Tyler: like grandfathers. Wake, wake

[01:27:26] Jimmy: wakeboard. Yeah. He was my high school buddy. We, uh, so when I, so he was like one of my first surf buddies. Uh, so Karen McKay influenced both him and I, but the biggest, you know, so women have always been very key in my surfing, but the biggest influence was my mom.

[01:27:41] Uh, she's the one that would. Uh, before I could drive, uh, would drive me to the beach, um, uh, for the weekend and, and put off whatever she had. Or, uh, we lived on the West beach and we always wanted to surf in town where the jetties were and the [01:28:00] waves were good. And she would plop in her Nat King cold tape, and we would drive the 30 minutes into town to go surf the breaks with all the town surfers.

[01:28:10] Uh, I thought we were cool, and then she would come back and, uh, either wait there or pick us up. And so I have that experience with the mom and, uh, and my dad too. I, it's, it is more of a surf parent thing, but, uh, yeah. You know, it's that, that relationship. As a, uh, of understanding surf moms and the way Janine was and the other one she mentioned, uh, uh, I can relate to a hundred percent just through my own experience.

[01:28:36] Well, it's,

[01:28:36] Tyler: it's, it's also just women in general and surfing have not gotten their fair share and, and credit, I think. And one of the people you covered a lot also was Kim Merrick, who was. An incredible surfer, you know, multi time world champion. Um, you know, how did you connect with her as well and, and, and shooting with [01:29:00] her?

[01:29:00] Jimmy: Uh, she was, so the funny thing about our group is we are all separate, but we are all tied together loosely. And so, uh, for example, Davie Smith and Tom Kern are good friends. To this day, but we never once I think I have one photo of those two guys together back then It was a very individual go off and shoot this person and a lot had to do with schedules Especially as everybody turned pro who was in town.

[01:29:30] Yeah wasn't in town Kim Kim and I became good friends towards the probably around 82 Uh, I think I knew her more through the gang in Child Islands in 81, and then we started shooting in 82 and 83. Um, so one thing that does not get talked about enough, and it's one of the things I wish I could go back and put a little bit more back in the book on, is that, is how much, through this whole era about Tom, [01:30:00] it was really Tom and Kim.

[01:30:02] Totally. It was Tom doing his thing, and, and blowing everybody away, and the, the guy side, and then, Kim doing it on the women's side. And it's not that there haven't been phenomenal women surfers before Kim, by any means, uh, Lynn Boyer was one of my favorite surfers, Margaret Augberg, uh, Godfrey, who was from Santa Barbara, uh, the list goes on and on and on.

[01:30:27] Um, but, uh, She just, she had that different than Tommy, but she had that same point break style and flow and, uh, that they were both at the same time able to bring out onto the tour. And in my mind, she had every bit as much influence in the women's surfing as Tom did in the men's. Uh, and I don't think she gets enough credit, uh, in surfing overall, you know, whether it's men or women's or whatever.

[01:30:55] She was, she was one of the best. I would say out of the top five surfers that I shot back [01:31:00] then, because I was shooting some of the best surfers in the world at that time, she was within that top five. And not classified by women or men, it's just by her, by her skill level. It's, it's interesting,

[01:31:10] Tyler: because like, there's, I can't find much on her, you know, so it's weird like I, I only see video of her and photos of her, but I have no sense of what she was like as a person.

[01:31:23] Just a very

[01:31:24] Jimmy: sweet person. I think she, she had a lot of that Santa Barbara, uh, uh, like what we were talking about for the beginning, just trying to be low key, you know, not drawing too much attention to yourself. Uh, she, she had a lot of opportunity to surf a lot of really good waves that were north of, uh, Santa Barbara.

[01:31:44] Just surfing for surfing's sake. And, uh, and she went out, she did the tour. She did well. Um, I, I, I believe her mom was in real estate and, uh, she came back and, and, and they were smart [01:32:00] about all that. Uh, you know, this is, that's great. You know, being in real estate in, in, in California. Um. In the eighties, it's a lot different being real estate now, you know, you know, if you were smart or lucky or, you know, just stumbled into things you, you know, you set yourself up for life and I don't know any of this for fat, but just putting pieces together.

[01:32:24] So I, I think she's, she's. You know, lived a, uh, uh, very good surf life and a very good life and, uh, she's been, uh, married to a local guy, um, uh, from back in the day, you know, and, uh, uh, I've only talked to her a couple of times since, but I know they have kids and, uh, and I just don't think she, I think like a lot of Santa Barbara people, she just doesn't need the...

[01:32:52] desire that kind of attention. But, but boy, does, does she deserve it? Yeah,

[01:32:57] Tyler: absolutely. Surfer's journal. If you're [01:33:00] listening to a profile on her, um. Let's talk about the the catalyst I would say for a lot of things in Santa Barbara And it's like kind of like pouring rocket fuel almost on things is Sean Thompson's arrival to Santa Barbara and moving there I mean here you have this world champion Extremely famous, well known surfer who apparently Calvin Klein said was one of the best looking people of that era.

[01:33:33] I heard that. We heard that. Yeah. I guess I'm You heard it here, right? Um, you know, what did that do for that whole area? It must have changed everything. Well,

[01:33:47] Jimmy: you know, moving into the 80s, uh, you know, you say moving into the 80s, you're actually like In the seventies to move into the eighties and the seventies, you know, 75 to 79.

[01:33:59] I mean, that [01:34:00] was all the, the best down the door crew, you know, that was the South Africans, Australians, and, uh, nobody was bigger than, than Sean Thompson. And, um, I remember when I first heard that he had moved to Santa Barbara, I just couldn't believe. You know, my luck, uh, you know, I was just like, are you kidding me?

[01:34:18] You know, I, I, here, I thought I was moving to the backwater of this, of the California, you know, surf world. And, um, first day I got to Rincon, I was eight feet, you know, and, and Sean Thompson's, uh, you know, just going off like, you know, nobody else out there, um, you know, his surfing was just so. Dynamic, uh, compared to everybody else out there that day.

[01:34:42] Uh, even the Cal, even the, the hot Californians that had, had come up, uh, and driven up from down South, uh, his surfing was just unbelievable. And, uh, I, I, I don't know for a fact, but, [01:35:00] but that had to be an influence on. anybody surfing. Uh, negative influence for the people that didn't want it to change, but a positive influence for the, for the people who, who were looking for, you know, what was next and what was new and wanted to be part of the progression.

[01:35:16] Tyler: And, and for Al Merrick. You know, being able to shape a few boards for Sean must have been an incredible, uh, experience. And, like, I can't help but think of that, you know, kind of being a domino effect to then influencing and helping Tommy, you know, with his board design. I would imagine,

[01:35:35] Jimmy: I would imagine for Al that there's a very similar, uh, that, that Al must have been feeling something very similar that I was feeling.

[01:35:44] And that is everything that I envisioned that I wanted to do here. Uh, and shoot. Because I really went out there with the intent of being a part of Surfer Magazine. Um, uh, that Sean Thompson being there and my [01:36:00] interaction with him was more through my lens of watching him surf. I didn't know him till a few years later, but just him being a part of this all validated and kind of, uh, supercharged everything that.

[01:36:14] I wanted to do, uh, both in influence and in just the mere fact that it was there. And I imagined Al was getting a lot of that, you know, but Al was personal friends with him. Uh, I was able to record some of that and it's in the book, even when I didn't know, even before I knew the two. Um, and so I imagined that had in and of itself, just.

[01:36:35] Supercharged Al's whole, you know, vision of what he wanted to do and where he was going. And, and that's not something I've talked with Al. I'm just trying to relate what I felt and seeing how it could have been very similar for him.

[01:36:48] Tyler: Was Sean, like, did he hang out with the crew at all? Or was he just like, he did his own thing and...

[01:36:56] Did you ever try to be like, Hey, Sean, can I shoot with you? Or was it [01:37:00] more, he would show up at a spot and you were just there? Yeah,

[01:37:03] Jimmy: it took a long time for, I was so intimidated by him. Like I said, I was shy and he was like bigger than life to me. And, and, and so damn

[01:37:10] Tyler: handsome.

[01:37:10] Jimmy: It's so damn handsome. Gosh.

[01:37:13] Um, Yeah, he's one of those guys when he got out of the water, his hair was perfect, you know, and, uh, Now, all kidding aside, I, I think it was just, he, he was such, the, the guys like Tommy, the guys that a lot of people now are, are the younger generation. Looked up to like Tommy and Willie and, and a lot of the guys I shot, they were, they were all yet to come of age, you know, we were just all surfers, but he was a legitimate surf star.

[01:37:43] And so having grown up in, in Texas and having somebody walk out of a magazine on, you know, onto a point, walk by you, you know, 10 feet from you and then go out and surf in real life and shoot, that was a lot. You know, for me to get my head around and, and it took me a [01:38:00] long time to get to know him. And, and actually how I did end up getting to know him was again through Kim Robinson.

[01:38:05] Uh, uh, I had been shooting and been published for, for about two years and, uh, Sean needed some shots for an ad. Um, and Kim told him to call me, you know, uh, that was, you know, Kim working in the back, the back scenes doing it. And, and the funny thing is, is when Sean called Uh, we used to have this gag, we've been playing it since we were kids, where we would call each other and we'd pretend to be like Jerry Lopez or Jeff Ackman and we would say like

[01:38:36] Tyler: You thought that.

[01:38:37] And you're like, that's a really bad African accent, all right, Sam, or whatever. Yeah, no,

[01:38:42] Jimmy: no, I was just, I was just like, yeah, okay, whatever, I, it was a, I thought it was a friend, Dana, who would do something like that, Dana McCorkle, and, um, and so I ended up, uh. I can't remember if I hung up or he hung up and then calls back and he's just gone.

[01:38:56] No, I think I hung up. He's like, excuse me, you know, with his [01:39:00] accent. I can't do the accent. Excuse me. You know, I was like, oh shit, maybe this is him. And so he just went right to business. And so we had a good run of, uh, that opened us up to shooting. And then we had a really good run of surf. So I was able to get, uh, some good shooting with him, both, uh, in the water and from the land, uh, and then his brother, Paul was, was, you know, uh, was, uh, exceptionally good surfer, but he wasn't the surf star, so he was much more approachable and everybody knew Paul and, and, uh, so I knew, actually knew Paul before I knew Sean, uh, Uh, that's,

[01:39:34] Tyler: that must've been like, Must have been pretty cool, you know.

[01:39:38] Well, you

[01:39:38] Jimmy: know, if you're this kid that grew up in Texas, just live for the surf magazines and put everything in the magazines like it's almost untouchable up on a pedestal. To actually, you know, kind of end up, uh, getting to know some of these guys and shooting them and stuff was pretty incredible, you know.

[01:39:56] It really was. I gotta ask

[01:39:59] Tyler: [01:40:00] then, were there any competitor photographers that would come up to Santa Barbara or try to shoot Tommy or Sean or that whole area or all the surfers there? And did you ever get protective or feel like you needed to,

[01:40:16] Jimmy: uh, at all? Yeah, that was a big thing back then. That's a really astute question.

[01:40:20] Um, there, there were a few shooters and, uh, area and we all knew each other and, uh, uh, I was by far the most Like, aggressive. What I mean by aggressive, I was just ready to shoot every single day, all the time. Uh, whereas a lot of the other ones, like Joe Mickey and, and, uh, Dave Nadel, they shot film. They did the Off the Walls, uh, movies.

[01:40:46] Off the Wall 1 and 2. So, Joe shot stills some of the time, but mostly he was shooting film. Most of the other guys that, uh, and girls, uh, Simone, good friends, Simone Redingius, uh, they served. And so they surf probably more than they shot [01:41:00] and they love shooting. Um, but I, I, I, I have surfed, you know, I don't surf much anymore, but I, I never stopped surfing.

[01:41:08] I just would not surf when the waves were good. When I was shooting, I would totally focus on shooting. Uh, that was my goal not to that period. Uh, but everybody else remained surfer. So that, and we all knew each other and we got along, but there was a competitiveness among territories. If somebody came up, uh, Uh, to shoot in the Santa Barbara area or got a hold of Tom to shoot that became very territorial.

[01:41:35] I would hear, you know, that so and so shot with Tom at Backside Ring Con. Well, that's our spot. Yeah, you know, uh, everybody was like that.

[01:41:44] Tyler: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm still there. I'm here. I'm here. Competitive and, you know, it would definitely get competitive for you Uh,[01:42:00]

[01:42:01] Jimmy: But that's very misleading. Uh, I, I was, I was the guy trying to break in and I was always trying to, and wanted to get information from the guys who are the known guys and, um, you know, and some, some of them were. A little trickier. And some of them were not tricky at all. Like, uh, like one of the friendliest down North guys was, uh, was a big, uh, photographer at that time for surfing magazine, Peter Brulé.

[01:42:29] Yes. Uh, probably one of the competitive guy, most competitive guys was actually Larry Moore, but he was the photo editor. And as long as you weren't in his backyard, uh, you know, you weren't at

[01:42:41] Tyler: Salt Creek, you're good. Yeah. You

[01:42:42] Jimmy: were, yeah. Uh, I think it was called Butterfly Bay. I can't remember that.

[01:42:55] Uh, so where did he cut off at? Butterfly

[01:42:57] Tyler: Bay.

[01:42:59] Jimmy: So, yes, [01:43:00] Larry, Larry could be competitive in his backyard, but, but, uh, phenomenal photo editor, uh, such good memories with Larry. He would, he would take you in under his wing. Uh, both him and Jeff Devine were, were, and it was incredible to, To be a part of, of that part of the, uh, surf history where I got to work with both of them is as different as they both were, they both shared the equal passion and love for what they're doing.

[01:43:27] And it showed them what they did. And I enjoyed working with, uh, both of them. Uh,

[01:43:32] Tyler: immense. There's a, such a great story in your book about that too. You know, your first time sneaking into the surfer magazine office is amazing, but. We'll let the listener buy the book to read

[01:43:46] Jimmy: it. That was, yeah, that was with Jeff Devine.

[01:43:48] And I just saw Jeff Devine a few weeks ago and uh, and it was, it was uh, he gave me a copy of his book and I gave a copy of my [01:44:00] book. Uh, it was, it was wonderful and, and, the funny thing is,

[01:44:04] Matt Moore.

[01:44:05] Yes. Um, who is, who is a legendary, iconic surfer shaper from, uh, Carpentaria area, Rincon. Um, he grew up and was good friends with Jeff Devine, I think, I think since high school or since they were pretty young. And he used to tell me, um, cause Jimmy, If you get me a good shot of Matt Moore, you have a sinner spread, you know, and getting a two page shot in a surf magazine guaranteed.

[01:44:33] All you have to do is come up with a shot is, it was like people would dream of having a photo editor to tell you that. And I never could get that shot, but I did get a shot of Matt, uh, one day, uh, check it out. A, uh, A fairly large Thresher shark that had washed up.

[01:44:51] Tyler: Oh, wow. Yeah, I saw that picture.

[01:44:54] Jimmy: Yeah. And when, when I saw, uh, Jeff just recently, he, uh, said, hey, I heard there's [01:45:00] a shot of Matt Moore in the book.

[01:45:01] And, and I told him, About what he told me back in the day. He goes, did I say that? He goes, I don't think I ever said that. I was like, yes, you did. But anyway, then he saw the, he saw the letter that he had written with it. Uh, and he was like, wow. So that was pretty cool having him see that, you know, because, you know, I make it a special acknowledgement in the back of the book to, to Jeff Devine, Larry Moore, who we've been talking about, but to, uh, Dave Gilovich and Chris Carter and, um, Paul Holmes, and of course, Jim Kempton, and then Pesman, and then Bob, uh, Mignola, uh, to me, were the, who the Mags were.

[01:45:41] Um, is, to me, that's, they were, they were the ones, the Mags were everything. It, it would almost be like, everybody follows, if, for somebody who didn't under, One around back then it's like there was only one social media site, you know, Instagram had one person posting and Everything you ever [01:46:00] learned about surfing was from what that, you know, one or handful of people posted That's the literally the way it was back then but it was like there were two And, uh, two people, two groups posting and it was surfer and surfing and everything that was, or, or could be or would be, you know, or had happened in the past was came through the group of guys that I just mentioned.

[01:46:21] Uh, and getting, getting them to, to believe in you and get behind you was, was everything. Uh, and I was lucky enough that I was in an area where there weren't a lot of photographers. There wasn't a lot of competition. And as we said before, there weren't iPhones, there weren't all these other cameras. So I was able to get a pretty exclusive look into something that was kind of happened.

[01:46:44] Uh, and caught everybody off guard. Yeah. And I was able, I tried to show in the book, my skill level increase as you go through the chapters. Yeah. Uh, okay, just switch to, to night lighting

[01:46:57] Tyler: there. Oh, yeah, I just, uh, tripped the light [01:47:00] by accident. Sorry. Ha, ha, ha,

[01:47:02] Jimmy: ha. And so I tried to show that in the book. And so how, Tommy or Willie or, or whomever was coming into their own.

[01:47:11] I was kind of going through the same thing. So by the time that these guys really like, like, uh, specifically Tommy and of course, Al and, uh, came in demand my skill level and the imagery I was sending to the magazines was up to par. And so it became kind of a no brainer for guys like Jeff Devine and everybody, uh, start using my stuff because I was the only one up there who had it with.

[01:47:35] Uh, at the right technical level. You

[01:47:37] Tyler: had the goods. I had the goods. You had the

[01:47:39] Jimmy: goods. Yeah, no, so it kind of happened, uh, you know, it was all luck, but it, but when you look back, it kind of happened, you know, like it was planned out perfectly, you know. Did you

[01:47:51] Tyler: cross paths often with Scott Dietrich then? Yes.

[01:47:57] You know, because he like, [01:48:00] I mean, I grew up on his films, Tales of the Seven Seas and Fall of the Sun, you know, and he, you know, and Amazing Surf Stories and Wheels of Fire. And so like, and he, he was the, the only one really who had felt like moving footage of Curran. You know, it felt like, besides

[01:48:18] Jimmy: the Off the Wall guy.

[01:48:19] So the big thing back then was, uh. Filmers like him would go. Would you still there? Yeah.

[01:48:27] Tyler: Yeah. I'm still here. I'm fixing my light . I'm just fixing my light. Hold on one sec. No worries.

[01:48:42] Jimmy: There you

[01:48:42] Tyler: go. Okay. There you go. Sorry. Yeah,

[01:48:45] Jimmy: so Scott and I started, uh, interacting in, in 83, I think, uh, maybe late 82. Yeah. The big thing back then was, was guys like him would, would do these, were, would put [01:49:00]together pieces for their movie, like they'd go down. They go to Northern California, they put together a group of surfers and then you wanted a photographer because you wanted the shots in the, in the whole adventure to be into the, uh, in the article in surf magazine, or you go down the Baja, what have you.

[01:49:17] And, uh, we were just starting to do that. I, we never lined one up. Um, we were supposed to go to, uh, Toto Santos, uh, and, uh, Dave Parman and I were hanging out in San Diego waiting for the go, for the green light and it never happened. The swell never showed up. So we, him and I spent a couple of days just driving around looking for one foot waves and in San Diego and then drove back.

[01:49:45] And, um, there was another time where it's just unbelievable that I haven't pied us and we refer to him. We just don't say it by name because, uh, here verbally I can, I can, uh, [01:50:00]Explained it out a little more, but you can't, you know, in 300 words or less in an Instagram post. But, uh, uh, we just ran into him, uh, I think it was down by the harbor of Ventura one morning.

[01:50:11] It was overcast and it was stormy. And then, uh, they were gonna follow us and Tommy did not want to shoot film. Uh, filming, filming takes a little, sometimes takes more staging. And he just wanted to go surfing. And, uh, and we ended up, uh, so they were going to follow us. And we ended up, uh, pulling off at last second at Pidas and the story has been told a few different ways, uh, uh, where we went to Santa Barbara and double back.

[01:50:43] But actually I think. And I may say something contrary to what was said in the book, but I think we pulled off at Pidas at the last minute, and they were unable to make the turn, and then we ended up catching one of the most phenomenal days, uh, at that spot, uh, it just, the sun broke [01:51:00] out from the clouds, it was just perfect lighting, and, um, And so there's two shots in the book from that day.

[01:51:06] It was like Kira, it was just going off, just

[01:51:09] Tyler: barrels. And you guys just ditched them. You're like, we're going to lose them.

[01:51:19] Jimmy: I, I was able to, um, because I was embedded into the group, I did not, uh, You know, when Tommy didn't want to shoot with somebody, he quite often, he just wanted to go surfing. I was, uh, I was able to transcend a lot of that because well. I was the one driving most of the time.

[01:51:46] And you know, him and I, uh, and our whole gang, we all got along pretty good. It's, you know, it's not like you don't drive north for five hours and it's flat and on the drive back you're not like totally on each [01:52:00] other's case, you know. getting mad at each other. Uh, and then if the waves were perfect, you're back and you know, you're driving back his best friends.

[01:52:07] You know, it's not that a lot of that didn't go on. A lot of practical jokes went on. Um, but I remember there was one time with Tommy where, where he, I, I had this, like I wanted to catch this one spot in Northern LA County that rarely breaks. And I was determined to catch it good. And it looked like the conditions were going to be good.

[01:52:30] And Tommy was like, uh, He goes, let's go there. And I go, okay, I'm going to go there, but I know you want to go to this other spot and I'm not going to go to this other spot. I'm not going to drive all the way there unless we go there. So we get there and, and it's breaking, but it's not breaking really big, but I'm able to do all these kinds of lineup shots.

[01:52:49] And, uh, the only time I ever remember Tom being mad at me is because I wouldn't stop shooting lineup shots and drive to the other spot, which would have been fun surf. Try not to [01:53:00] name spots. I don't know if it matters.

[01:53:02] Tyler: Well, they just geotag it now, but.

[01:53:06] Jimmy: But the other spot that he wanted to go to is the shot that's in the, is the cover of the book, but on a much, much bigger day.

[01:53:15] Yeah. Not, not just a small little day. So we all got along. It was all, it was, it was most times it was fun, but, uh, you know, we could get mad at each other sometimes and. You know, especially with guys like Willie Morris and stuff, a lot of practical jokes and, you know, kidding around.

[01:53:33] Tyler: There's a shot in your book.

[01:53:35] Um, I thought it was really interesting. Um, No, it's actually, I think it might be in your Halcyon article, but it's, it's of the BSA, the Black Surfers

[01:53:45] Jimmy: Association. Yeah, it's in both probably. In the book.

[01:53:48] Tyler: It was just like... Really interesting, because I feel like, particularly here in New York and in Rockaway, there's a really big community of, of [01:54:00] black surfers, and, and, uh, you know, it's really becoming popular, and, you know, you have the Black Surfing Association here in Rockaway, actually, as well, and you have a few others, and so it just, it stood out to me as something really interesting, because it's, It's not so widely acknowledged in surf history and in the surf world, but it was happening then it was really cool that you had that shot.

[01:54:25] Jimmy: Yeah, no, those, so, um, uh, Tony Corley, one of the guys in the photo is the one who started the, the black surfing association. Uh, another notable in that photo, and I don't know if this is true, but I heard it, but, uh, David Lansdowne, he was a district four WSA, uh, director, uh, uh, For a long time. That's true.

[01:54:48] But, uh, what I don't know if it's true that I've heard is he's actually one of the first people to surf, uh, Scorpion Bay. Uh, if not, like, when I say one of, I, I don't mean, like, [01:55:00] a couple guys were before him. I mean, part of a group that surfed it for the first time. Uh, I, I don't know that firsthand. I just have heard that.

[01:55:09] That's a cool story. That's interesting. And then, uh, and then the, the really good guy from that group, uh, was Solo Scott, uh, he was from Venice. Uh, he's in that photo. And then, I don't know if, uh, one of the guys in that photo was a, was a linebacker, uh, with the Detroit Lions. He was either part of the original BSA, or he was, uh, he may not have been in that photo, or he may be in that photo.

[01:55:35] I can't remember. I'd have to go back and look at my notes. But, uh, the, the people, the, but, but Tony, David, and Solo, uh, were the most notable surfers out of that group. And, and David Lansdowne, uh, was older. And, uh, so, uh, you know, he would have probably went back to the 60s, but, uh, he had a phenomenal bottom turn.

[01:55:59] Uh, [01:56:00] shh.

[01:56:01] Tyler: It's, it's cool to see that. Yeah. I, I also, I have to bring up Davie Smith and aerial surfing. I mean, what, what was that like to see some of the first proper airs being, being pulled? So.

[01:56:23] Jimmy: I, I try to,

[01:56:28] when you're writing about it, you have to be more clinical. And, and so in the book, I tried to put facts down based on as, as they happened. Yeah. Um, there's a timeline in there, you know, the big thing was who did the first aerial, you know? Uh, that's like, who did the first cut back? It's impossible to know.

[01:56:49] Um, there was a couple of, some people had told me there was a guy in, uh, in the seventies in Hawaii who was doing them. Uh, Davy Smith, uh, did his first in photograph by Bob [01:57:00] Barber in 1975. When I showed up and then, then of course there, there was, uh, uh, help me out here. There's Matt Keckley and there was,

[01:57:11] Tyler: uh, Matt Keckley, Kevin Reed up in Santa Cruz.

[01:57:14] Yes. You know, they're, they're, they're a few, few people. Definitely. Uh, Larry, you know, uh, you know, Larry Bertelman. That's, he liked to call them L'Ariels, you know, but well,

[01:57:26] Jimmy: so that's where the timeline gets very, very, uh, it gets down to not years, but months. Yeah. And I try to stay out of it because it gets very sticky.

[01:57:36] I have, there's, if you looked at all the original slides, you'd be able to see the time dates on them, SAM dates, and you'd be able to say, okay, well, actually that was, this person was first. I do know that, um. I think I forgot when Matt, uh, Keckley said, uh, Bruce Walker has him doing an aerial probably a year before I shot Davey, uh, doing one and [01:58:00] pulling it off.

[01:58:00] I've never seen a shot of, of Kevin Reed, but, uh, I've heard plenty of people say that he did pull those off. So, so when, when I came around. People were flying out of waves and the magazines were trying to capture people flying out of waves looking like they're doing aerials Yeah, they had no chance of landing them and that's where some of the confusion comes in They see a photo and they said oh so and so was doing airs back then well, he was flying out of wave not landing it and You know without getting name in the names and him ever.

[01:58:31] I don't think that's important. What was important was capturing Because again, we keep coming back to this. The most important thing was it to be in a magazine for it to be validated. And there wasn't a completed aerial in the magazine. So that became the mission, uh, whomever the few people who were actually doing aerials were so few, if, if you think.

[01:58:56] Of Davie Smith, Kevin Reed, uh, [01:59:00] Bertelman, who, whomever is thrown into the mix. So few, you rarely on the beach saw anybody doing an air. So if you're just sitting there watching a guy go up and down a wave and launches, you know, an air, uh, as, as As a section, you know, the closeout section comes and flies up in the air and then lands it.

[01:59:23] You were blown away. It's just like you saw somebody, uh, like doing a flip. Yeah, five years ago. Uh, yeah, or doing a 30 foot high aerial, you know, yeah, triple, you know, what? Yeah That's you know, you'd look at it today and it was even more phenomenal than that if you saw that today It was just like it was so fun watching people's reaction would debut do an air We were, we went up to Northern California and we were surfing, uh, Eureka, the South Jetty, you know, so far from, from [02:00:00] progressive surfing, uh, or you know, the center of, of, of progressive surfing.

[02:00:06] And Davey pops this air and everybody's just like, what was that? You know, you know, is that surfing, you know, it was just like. Uh, you know, I actually thought we were going to get beat up, you know, because he was being so sacrilegious to what they thought, you know,

[02:00:22] Tyler: single file council would not approve,

[02:00:24] Jimmy: I guess.

[02:00:24] Style council would not approve. Yeah. This is way, this is, this is the, the heavier arm of this, the Northern, very Northern California version of the style council, uh, which a lot of interesting stories from up there. Uh,

[02:00:37] Tyler: Oh, I bet. Oh

[02:00:38] Jimmy: my gosh. Uh, but we did catch ways. We never caught what we went up there for.

[02:00:44] Um, But, uh, one guy did come up to me. With the surf magazine of the first aerial of Davey completing it when we were up there and says, is this that guy out there? And you know, my first reaction [02:01:00] is it seems like all these guys are like six five and burly and you know Long on a paper tally, you know brawny, you know, and you know, I thought you know if I said yes He was gonna, you know, punch me out, you know for being a mad guy because they did not like mad guys or Yeah.

[02:01:16] For them, you know, wherever you go, there you are. Uh, if you're from Santa Cruz, you're a Southern, you know? Yeah. Um, uh, which we would consider Santa Barbara being the North. Uh, and I said, uh, yes. And he goes, oh, he goes, cool, wow. He was all excited about it. I was like, I had a couple experiences like that up there of guys that, like, gave me a hard time and they ended up, uh.

[02:01:40] Everything ended up being okay for one reason or the other. One guy was Well, you can't Go

[02:01:44] Tyler: ahead. Yeah, go on. No, no, go on.

[02:01:46] Jimmy: Oh, there was this one really burly, like, really menacing looking guy sat down next to me and started talking to me and, uh, and I'm pretty nervous and, and don't really know what to say, so I, I said, well [02:02:00] What do you do for a living?

[02:02:02] You know? And he was kind of like, uh, he looks at me kind of strangely. He says, I'm a gardener. And I, I was like, totally. It's not that I did, I was naive. I just didn't register my brain. And the whole gardening thing didn't register my brain the whole time up there because everybody was telling us they're gardeners and I finally, I said to him, I said, what do you grow?

[02:02:26] Yeah, no, I said, no, he said he was a landscaper. I said, you know, I know what landscaping is. I don't see anything landscaped up here. And he just looked at, he just kind of looked at me up and down, you know, and for real, and he just started laughing and, you know, he thought I was just like making a joke and he goes.

[02:02:47] And he says, you're cool. He goes, you can, you can shoot here, you know, and somebody later told me he was pretty much the guy that would punch you out, you know, for being from down South. And, and I guess I, luckily at that point, I mean, I wasn't this [02:03:00] intimidating person. I didn't usually bring on people wanting to punch me out, but that was the fear that you had up there with when you pulled the camera out or you.

[02:03:08] You had a flashy wetsuit or you surfed aboard, you know, under seven, two, you know, and, uh, though Erika, you know, right there, it was a little different because the university was there and they had a lot of people come from, uh, different parts of states to go to school there. But, but, uh, yeah, guy later said, oh, yeah, you know, the fact that you got that guy saying.

[02:03:27] You got free pass to go anywhere because that was a coup.

[02:03:31] Tyler: And I love, I love, for listeners, landscapers in air quotes, by the way. I thought that

[02:03:38] Jimmy: was obvious when you're talking about Northern California. Just making sure people, uh,

[02:03:42] Tyler: you know,

[02:03:42] Jimmy: like, it's a different time. Well, I didn't know it. Someone needed to be air quoting it for me back then.

[02:03:47] Tyler: Ah, you know. Um. I then want to just talk about your good friend, Willie Morris, because you dedicate this book to him and, uh, you know, he had [02:04:00] passed away a few years ago. I was hoping you can kind of enlighten the listeners as to what type of person he was and who he was, because I think he's You know, was really actually important in the growth of not just, you know, in, in that period of surfing, but also the surf industry, he was really important as well, uh, as a sales rep and, and the sales director and, you know, helping to grow the industry.

[02:04:28] Yeah,

[02:04:29] Jimmy: that came after this period, but yes, yes. So I

[02:04:32] Tyler: was hoping you can kind of, kind of just give, shed a little light on, on what type of person and who he was. Well, the

[02:04:38] Jimmy: funny, so like a lot of these guys, um, Like, I kind of end the book with, uh, meeting, uh, Kelly Slater, and, you know, when I first met Kelly as a little kid, and it wasn't Kelly Slater, it was Sean and Kelly, um, and quite often Sean is

[02:04:57] Tyler: Kelly's brother, listeners, if you don't know.

[02:04:59] [02:05:00] Yes.

[02:05:00] Jimmy: Thank you. Um. And that's the way it quite often is with, with brothers that surf that are, you know, competing. And, um, and so back in the very beginning, it was, it was Steve and Willie. And, uh, and sometimes like the Hobgoods, you know, they both. You know, go on and be pros. Sometimes one takes, you know, more of the, the casual lifestyle low profile and the other one becomes a pro.

[02:05:26] It's all different ways. And, and, um, but it, but for Willie, it was Steve and Willie and, and they were both all the way up through amateurs, competitors, surfers, just like we talked about before. And then, uh, Willie's the one that's going to turn pro and, um, both Willie and Steve were, I'm not, I think Steve and I are about the same age.

[02:05:47] Willie was actually younger. Yeah. Yeah, but they're both taller than me, you know, I'm like, you know, on my my tallest day I'm like five eight, but I'm probably lying to you and five seven and a [02:06:00] half on my tallest day So and that was probably when I was younger so, you know all these guys that are six foot six two They're they're giant around me.

[02:06:10] So so Willie kind of had Willie was very self assured and had this unbelievable wit And plus being taller what would end up happening for not just me, but everybody We kind of looked up to willie like he was older when he really wasn't uh, and He he was probably one of the he he was one of the funniest guys to hang around with but you learn very quickly If he's if he's kind of going off being witty Don't like don't try to compete with him because he's so much funnier and so much quicker with it that he'll You, you won't live up to, you know, uh, what you think you're going to do and you'll end up becoming a target of, of his practical jokes and he became famous for his practical jokes.

[02:06:56] And, um, Losty[02:07:00]

[02:07:04] Tyler: again.

[02:07:06] Jimmy: Folks. Um, first you should have saw the face that got frozen on it was so like, you're so into it. It's just like, yeah, he's into it. We are, we're going on two hours and this guy, he's just so excited about what I'm talking about.

[02:07:28] I didn't want to, I didn't want to, uh, admit to myself that it was frozen. You got that look now you're frozen right now. Okay. Now you're.

[02:07:38] Tyler: Oh, no! Uh, I'm moving now. There we go.

[02:07:40] Jimmy: Uh, Willie was, I'll just say he was, he was a big practical joker, and everything was fun, but probably the best part about Willie was that he loved to shoot, and he saw the shots that you were trying to shoot.

[02:07:52] You know, uh, he was the opposite of Tommy. As, as, you know, Tommy... He wanted a ride [02:08:00] and, and that's how that worked. Willie wanted to get photos published in the magazine and he saw what you're trying to do. And instead of saying, Hey, you know, have you taken the shot? Go ahead and take the shot. Let's get this over.

[02:08:12] Let's go. He would be sitting there working with you, trying to create the shot and make it better. And that's why not just me, but all photographers loved him. And that's, you know, that had been an incredible surfer. Combined is why you saw a lot of photos of Willie in the magazine. Uh, Yeah, and he was a big guy.

[02:08:29] Tyler: He was like he was one of the first real proper photo pros I think I feel like you know, um, like he really Was one of those pioneers, you know, he did competitive but He was more known for his photos. I

[02:08:43] Jimmy: want to, I want to be careful with saying that because I don't want any negative commentation to PhotoPro and all that.

[02:08:50] I think, I think he kind of bridged, and I'm not saying that you were implying that, I'm just, he kind of bridged the gap between, uh, in my mind, the way [02:09:00] I look at it, he bridged the gap between the person who was going to surf in contests and the person who was going to free surf. And bring the images back to the magazine, or in the case of now, back to, uh, social media or what have you, and And that's where they were going to garner their, you know, who they were in their image.

[02:09:21] Um, he was kind of in that transition, uh, period. Um, if Willie would have been 30 years later, he would have had this really nice competitive career and then gone on and had this phenomenal, uh, post competitive, you know, traveling. And, and he would have been unbelievable in the social media world. Um, Oh my gosh.

[02:09:44] I bet. Yeah. And some of my favorite surfers are those kinds of guys. Uh, I actually love all the different facets of surfing, you know, whether you're a longboard or, you know, uh, a stylist like, uh, Devin, who [02:10:00] we were talking about, Devin Howard, or, you know, you're the. You know, uh, Brazilian, uh, doing some unbelievable, you know, uh, aerial maneuvers in critical, just insanely critical situations.

[02:10:13] Um, I admire in, in all of that. And Willie, I think that's a really good point you bring out. He was kind of, uh, ahead of that curve and, uh, I've often thought about what he would have been like in the social media, uh, you know, era that we're in now.

[02:10:33] Tyler: He was an incredible salesperson from, from what I gather, you know, and I think that lends itself really well to social media or it can, you know, because you've got to be able to sell yourself and to have the charisma and the personality that works really well today's day and age.

[02:10:51] Well,

[02:10:52] Jimmy: a great thing about. Willie, and this probably all plays in with what you just said and everything, is, uh, [02:11:00] Grown, for me, growing up in Texas, being very passionate about surfing. I was passionate about everything. I read the magazine from the front cover to the back. So the ads, the wetsuit ads, the clothing ads, anything, those were just as iconic to me as the cinder spreader and the cover shot, and Willie was that way about surfing.

[02:11:19] So, uh, When he was surfing for quick as, as a professional surfer, when he just turned pro, I remember being at his house and he had just gotten a big shipment of a box of, uh, of. Quicksilver goods and open it was like it was like a religious experience and taking each piece out and you know It just

[02:11:39] Tyler: oh, he would have been good at unboxings, you know, then on social media, right?

[02:11:43] Is that where you're

[02:11:43] Jimmy: going? No, I'm not but but I just know that that you're a hundred percent. Correct, but that's exactly just every facet of surfing, you know putting your your your Laminar your decal in the nose. Your board was just was just [02:12:00] savored. You know, nobody loved being a professional He was a professional surfer the way I would have been a professional surfer Loving every minute of it and just savoring every minute of it Whereas, you know, some guys, the beauty about surfing is, is, especially when you get to these top guys is they all handle it different in each in their own way, it's kind of cool.

[02:12:23] You know, you really can't compare the way, but the way he would do it, the way he did it, I mean, is the way I would, uh, love to have done it. And so I've always admired that about him. And he was very, very easy to shoot. Uh, uh, that's a funny thing to say for somebody at his level. Some guys, no matter how good they are in motion, there's only a few positions you can get good shots.

[02:12:48] Some guys their entire, uh, they're in between maneuvers. They're still able to do, uh, you're still able to get good shots of them. And so they're a pleasure to serve, shoot [02:13:00]because they're, they're, uh. You can't go wrong, and especially with motor drives back then where they're three frames per second, you can, uh, I had the, again, the shot of Tommy on the cover is part of a, a three shot sequence where I just pushed the button down and it was the bottom turn, it was off the top, and then it was the, the kind of floater, uh, follow through.

[02:13:21] Well, rarely did you get a three shot sequence where every three, each shot was dead on. And quite often you got three shots that were just missing the right shot. So when shooting somebody like Willie, you know, you've got a higher percentage of shots because in between shots were good. Does that make sense?

[02:13:39] So that was a long explanation. Yeah,

[02:13:41] Tyler: no, no, it's, it's exactly it. It's really great to, to explain that too, because I think a lot of people forget like how difficult it was to get a good sequence shot and you know, you. You didn't see a lot of sequences in the magazines back then. They were very rare. [02:14:00] Um, yes, you know, it wasn't until like the nineties, I feel like when the sequence shots really got good, you know, because the motor drives,

[02:14:11] Jimmy: the motor drives, uh, got faster.

[02:14:12] So when I was shooting in the eighties, three frames per second, uh, Uh, I'm shooting anywhere from, uh, 14 to, to 16 frames per second right now, depending on what my shutter speed is. Uh, I, one thing I get asked, do I still shoot film? Uh, no, I shoot digital and if I was like 19 and, um, I was exploring the craft, I would shoot film.

[02:14:44] But all the problems that you had of shooting back in the day, that were just, I don't know if they're considered problems because that's all there was. Uh, but they're solved. Not having to change rolls of film out, not having to [02:15:00] shoot. You had your film was 36 exposures per roll. And if you shot 10 shots and there was a little, but a big set was coming and somebody like Tommy was out in position, you had to take.

[02:15:15] Your ten shot your roll with only ten shots exposed out and Put it away and then roll a new put a new roll in so you would have the full 36 shots and now you can shoot 3, 000 shots before you even worry about the car being full You know the battery and then going and shooting from the water you had 36 shots Uh, you know, you had to be very, God, yeah.

[02:15:42] Tyler: You got to swim in and come back out like, Oh my God. And it's a heavy rig that you had to deal with, you know, and, uh,

[02:15:49] Jimmy: walking in the rocks, getting your fingers unfrozen, being back then that there are wing nuts and it took 30 minutes for your fingers to fall out enough to turn to, you know, nevermind being in Northeast, just, [02:16:00] you know, on a winter's day, just in California, you know, you cannot turn those.

[02:16:04] You had little like ways with the towel where you would use. You would use, make a makeshift winch with the towel to get the wingnut, uh, to turn and then...

[02:16:13] Tyler: Oh man, if it was stuck, forget about it. And your hands are cold? Oh my

[02:16:17] Jimmy: gosh. Now you just, you just pop something and you know, and it opens and, and, and, uh, you don't even need to, you know, you have...

[02:16:24] I,

[02:16:25] Tyler: I read somewhere like Art Brewer once went to like the North Shore for the winter with only like 30 rolls of film or something ridiculously low like that. And then just... That was it. And almost, and he got like so many golden shots out of that. And that just speaks to his mastery, you know, of, of photography, which is incredible, like to have the accuracy rate that's like, that is incredible.

[02:16:53] Jimmy: So that's, that's a hundred percent accurate. What you said, I think what has kind of. [02:17:00] A cool thing about nowadays that I think about is there's a term called shooting through. If somebody doesn't off the lip or somebody does an aerial and they land and they disappear in the whitewater, uh, uh, if it were to have been film, you would stop shooting.

[02:17:18] If somebody gets a big barrel, uh, you may stop shooting during the barrel and then you just shoot the, the end when they come out, well, now you shoot through everything. And so what happens is, is you're getting a lot of incredible shots. That you normally wouldn't have got that aren't the typical bottom turn off the lip cut back tube shots But there are these in between moments where the wave and the ocean or something the lighting Something is super dramatic like like john john being blown out of the spit Pipeline.

[02:17:50] Yes. There's a lot of those shots would not have been shot back in the day because You'd be wasting film You're trying to hang on to those 30 rolls of film that you you have for [02:18:00]the winter and you're looking for those peak Uh, so that's probably one of the, the coolest things about, um, digital nowadays, uh, I get the craft, I'm all for anybody who wants to pursue it.

[02:18:14] Uh, there's, there's something tangible about having an actual negative that, that digital will never replace. And, um, and. I don't know if you can shoot a roll of 36, uh, shots at 16 frames per second.

[02:18:34] Tyler: Yeah, he'd be like, ah, I'm out. I'd be very expensive.

[02:18:40] Jimmy: So there was such thing as a bulk loader of film back where if I was to have continued on, that you, it's a special back where I think you can, Load a roll of Kodachrome of 250 shots and it all has to be loaded into dark room and unloaded in a dark room.

[02:18:59] [02:19:00] Uh, so I was gonna look, look into that. That would've been, uh, incredible, especially for water photography and have a housing built around it. That was like my big thing I wanted to move towards. Um, and you know, but just getting information on that. You don't just, you did back then, you just didn't Google it.

[02:19:18] You know, you had to start calling people and saying, Hey, do you know anybody that would know anything about this? You know, there weren't any articles written about it. Uh, and you had to

[02:19:27] Tyler: really, you had to really do the research, Google,

[02:19:32] Jimmy: Google, rabbit, you might get wind of it in something in a magazine, but it would, there was no information, detailed information about it.

[02:19:39] So you had to start calling, you would call the camera magazine. So, Hey, have you heard of this? Is this true? Um, Go to the library. Go to the library. So, a lot of people forget that, you know, and, and a lot of your information came from people talking and what they knew and some of it was credible and some of it wasn't.

[02:19:59] Tyler: I want to, I [02:20:00] want to ask about your reason for leaving Santa Barbara and the crossroads you, you faced basically and I was hoping you can kind of explain the circumstances to, to, you know, your, the end of your tenure there basically.

[02:20:16] Jimmy: So I had, uh, I had every tint of, of continued. So the goal, um, the ultimate goal as a photographer would be at that time, because we were just talking about the work, the work, really the pursuit of non competitive kind of trips.

[02:20:35] Those happen, but that really wasn't a career is you had to work for the magazine and follow the tour. And, and that, and that was an incredible thing to do. Uh, especially, uh, at that age where I was 23 at that point. That would have been, you know, how long it would have gone, I'm not sure. Um, but that would have been an incredibly fun thing to do.

[02:20:59] I grew up [02:21:00] traveling. I knew how to travel. Um, you know, I, I could easily have seen it where I never stopped. And to this day, you know, I'm still, you know, like Slater or somebody, still traveling from place to place. Uh, there's still a couple of photographers out there doing that. Um. It becomes very addictive and it becomes a way of life.

[02:21:22] Uh, and that's how I always saw myself doing. Um, and it's just a question of was I going to stay in Santa Barbara or move down to, uh, Southern California. And, uh, my father had cancer and, uh, he was not, he was, originally he, he, he did, I don't think he liked my pursuit, but he, he came around 180 degrees at some point.

[02:21:51] Um, you know, I, just like any parent, you, you have this expectation and then at some point you have to start looking [02:22:00] at it from your child's perspective, not from what you want, but from what they want. And when he came around, he got 180, you know, 180 degrees, he got 100 percent behind what I was doing and he actually encouraged me to stay out there and pursue all this.

[02:22:14] And he loved traveling and the thought of me traveling, you know, around the world. meant everything to him. Um, but, uh, it was, everything was not going the right direction with his cancer. It was, it was actually turning for the worst. So, uh, even though he was encouraged me, I, I knew that he wanted me to go back.

[02:22:33] So, uh, I went back. And then after that it became, uh, we were talking about moms and how important they were, you know, it was, it was time to be there for her when he, my father had passed. And then, you know, life comes into play and one thing leads to another. I ended up, uh, Meeting my wife and, and having my child and, uh, we have a daughter who's 27 now, uh, but she went through school going through the, um, the [02:23:00] same, uh, actually the same grade school and high school that I went to.

[02:23:05] And so there's a lot of continuity in life there that we're really enjoying. And, but in the back of my mind, I'm like, Oh, I always, I want to go back out to California. And, uh, start shooting again or just shooting, surfing somewhere again. And, uh, it took a long time where. It took getting our daughter all the way through college where she started developing her own life.

[02:23:31] And if you've ever, you know, anybody who's a father to a daughter, uh, when that point comes, you're like, Oh boy, you know, I put my heart and soul into this wonderful person. And now they're a grown up now and I don't, you know, I need to go find

[02:23:44] Tyler: something else to do. Now you got to rediscover yourself again, you know.

[02:23:48] Jimmy: And, uh, so strangely enough, I was, uh. I was talking to my wife. I was saying, you know, I'd love to shoot again. I think now is probably the time. And then we were talking about my friend, Jimmy [02:24:00] Redmond. Uh, serendipitously, he calls me and says, you know, they're building a pool, uh, a pool in Waco. I'm like, what do you mean?

[02:24:08] They're building, you know, literally what he said, they're building a pool in Waco. And He goes, a surf pool, dummy, a surf pool, you know, and I'm like, I'm like, what, you know, and you, how many stories have we heard about surf pools? I know Kelly's pool had already been going at that time, but you know, still, when someone told you they were building a surf pool, you thought of like the worst possible scenario.

[02:24:27] Yes. You know, um, um, and they had

[02:24:29] Tyler: Tempe, Arizona, you start thinking Rick Kane, you know,

[02:24:33] Jimmy: and they had the one that, or Allentown, well, they had the Coors one that they had built in Austin. that wasn't quite, uh, living up to what people wanted to be. And so I checked it out and ended up being, uh, right. Uh, it was before COVID, but when that pool, when they opened the Waco pool, there wasn't a lot of surf around the world at that time.

[02:24:58] And so a lot [02:25:00] in stab got heavily involved in their stab highs. Uh, one into a lot of surfers from all over the world were showing up there. Next thing you know, I'm shooting the best aerialist in the world. This is now, I'm. 2017, 2018, 19, somewhere around there, pre COVID. And, uh, I thought, I go, who would have ever thunk it, you know, coming from Texas, wanting to get the heck out of here.

[02:25:26] Now I'm in more inland in Texas shooting the best. Aerial surfers, you know, and to me, I'm reflecting back to those original aerials with Davie Smith.

[02:25:38] And so, uh, a full circle and we got, we've, we've always gone out to Santa Barbara, but I never really shot. So then I went out there and started shooting and sure enough, um, we're there, the first time I'm out there to shoot, not just to be, you know, hanging out in Santa Barbara. Uh, we catch really good surf at Rincon, you know, and.

[02:25:55] Uh, guys that I actually, you know, like Connor Coffin and a couple of the local kids [02:26:00] like Jack Zeitz and stuff, guys I've already shot back in the White Pool, now I'm shooting them at really good Rincon. Um, and, uh, the, the, the continuity of the guys at, at, uh, Channel Islands has been a, kind of a, A beautiful growth, uh, you know, especially with Brit, you know, when they purchased it back from, uh, From Burton, you know, all the guys that are now the owners and the players there, uh, all descendants of the, my era, uh, are all really super good guys and, and they've been really nice to me and, uh, uh, what they're, they're, I say photographer, he's a filmer, uh, because, uh, but Sean Lesh, um, he's been really kind and, and allowed me when I'm there to, he's tight with Bobby Martinez.

[02:26:47] So I've gotten, uh, some really good sessions with Bobby Martinez shooting. In real surf, um,

[02:26:56] so it's, it's been kind of a, you know, as a surf photographer, uh, [02:27:00] which in my mind. You know, I, I, the book is of such a little period of time and now I'm shooting again and have a, you know, a small little social presence and nobody, you know, who was I gone nowhere? Nobody, you know, knew who I was or remember me in that whole period.

[02:27:17] But in my mind, I was still a surf photographer. And, uh, you know, that's the way, you know, we look at ourselves and. Whether anybody else does or not. So to actually have come back and made that, you know, credible and, and, and brought it to fruition has been probably more exciting to me than the original time period that we're, the book is about and that we've been talking about.

[02:27:40] So you're never too old to go back and start surfing or be involved in surfing. It's the message on that

[02:27:45] Tyler: one. Did you, did you in that time? Away from surfing in a sense, did you still follow surfing? Oh yeah.

[02:27:54] Jimmy: I never stopped surfing. Like, yeah, I miss, I mean, as a surf photographer, yeah, it's, it's, so there, [02:28:00] there's kind of the, the, the profile of being a surf photographer.

[02:28:03] And then there's just my personal. You know, have always I gave up the dream of having everybody know that I was a surfer when I saw that day I saw Tommy current surf from that point on I was a surf photographer, but to me I've always been a surfer first

[02:28:18] Tyler: did did like I imagine it must have been a Very difficult decision to have made because you're you're to moving back.

[02:28:31] I gave up. Yeah, you know and like leaving What was a dream in some ways, you know, like this kind of dream, dream job.

[02:28:41] Jimmy: Yeah, like pitch me. I mean, yeah.

[02:28:45] Tyler: And to leave that and like, I can't imagine, I can imagine like there just be these, I don't know if there would be unresolved feelings that you'd have over the years, or if you would reminisce or think like, oh, I [02:29:00] wonder what it would have been like had I Gone this other direction sliding doors scenario here,

[02:29:06] Jimmy: you know, incredible.

[02:29:07] Uh, it, it took me, did you

[02:29:09] Tyler: agonize over it or was it

[02:29:11] Jimmy: incredible? So it took me, it took me two years, um, to kind of put it in its place where I didn't have that anxiety. Every time I heard there were waves in California, it's not like you just, it wasn't a switch you turn off and, and it's strangely enough, um, weird me as a surfer going to surf in Texas.

[02:29:40] And me as a surf photographer shooting, you know, some of the top surfers, whether it's the West Coast or wherever, it's almost like two different people. And I could go and have a good day of surf, you know, when I say good, you know, four foot day of waist, shoulder high surf. In Texas and hear that this, [02:30:00] and be totally stoked and satisfied and, and going out and drinking beer and having pizza with buddies saying what a day this was.

[02:30:06] And then hear the waves were like going off in Calor eight feet. It felt totally horrible that I wasn't out there shooting, you know, so it was, it, it, that, that has gone on for, for most of my life that, that, uh, It's just, you just gotta, it's like anything, you just gotta turn something that is not the right time or place to be doing.

[02:30:27] You just gotta turn it off and put it in its place. And as the older you get, the easier it is to do it. So, when I finally was able to come back and start shooting again, uh, when Jimmy Redman called me up and said there was a, there was a pool in, in Waco, and, and that experience started, uh, all over again, it, it was, like I said, it was, it was, 40 years in the making more time,

[02:30:53] Tyler: more time

[02:30:55] Jimmy: than my original time of wanting to go out to California when I was [02:31:00] a kid, when I was 19,

[02:31:03] Tyler: can you imagine telling your 19 year old self, like, Hey, Don't worry.

[02:31:07] There's going to be a wave pool here in Texas. That's kind of sick. Well, you

[02:31:11] Jimmy: know, I remember when the wave pool was first built, there's all discussion. It's not real. And, and I agree with all that. It's not real. And, and shooting, I want, I want a time, the tide and the light in the wind conditions and the swell and be there at the right moment.

[02:31:26] It may only happen for 30 minutes like that. And then when you get those shots, they're like gold. Uh, I appreciate all that, but it's. Most of the time, it's not like that. Most of the time, it's flat, or it's blown out, or it's horrible, and, gosh, now you have a way pool to go, you know? That's the way I looked at it, you know?

[02:31:45] Tyler: Well, I, I would imagine you can now look at it as like, oh, I can, Try being creative in a different way. You can, it could be more collaborative with the surfer in the sense of like, Hey, let's try this or let's do this, you know, and it's [02:32:00] in a controlled environment that allows,

[02:32:02] Jimmy: that's pretty astute. So what I practiced, uh, so when I was shooting the white pools, I focused on shooting speed blurs because literally, uh, you could have one of the best surfers in the world pass by you.

[02:32:16] No exaggeration 20 times in 30 minutes doing the exact same thing Yeah, and so you're not gonna miss the shot by doing a speed blur But if you're out in the real world, you may miss a really good shot trying to you know to be creative And so I ended up getting that shot of clay Marzo. That was a spread in the surfers journal And at that, okay, that was it.

[02:32:37] It's like, where do you go from there? You know, I'm still that old school way of thinking that once you achieve it in print, you're done, you know, you can't, it's, it's leave on a high note,

[02:32:50] Tyler: walk away, like George Costanza. I'm out. No.

[02:32:53] Jimmy: Yeah.

[02:32:54] Tyler: Well,

[02:32:56] Jimmy: but, but I did actually achieve it. I don't know if he, did he ever achieve anything or was [02:33:00] it just as, but he would

[02:33:01] Tyler: always, you'd always say his theory was to leave on a high note, to leave.

[02:33:04] If you got him laughing, you walk out so that they have a great impression. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[02:33:08] Jimmy: No, no, no, no, no. Um, I thought it was only me that still does Seinfeld references, but.

[02:33:16] Tyler: Nope. Nope. It's me. I am all about it all day long. Well, we got that in

[02:33:21] Jimmy: common then. Um, it was funny how everybody would get those references and all of a sudden one day, it was like, It was like overnight, you know, it's like when you have a kid, you know, you, you, you lift that kid up and you carry that kid and you go, God, you're getting heavy.

[02:33:36] I hope I don't have to carry anymore. And all of a sudden one day you're not. And you look back and you go, When did that stop? I would love to be able to go back and be able to carry my daughter in my arms and hold her. That's just gone, you know, just happened just like that. Um, so if I were to, if I were to be in a situation where I was at the white pool every day, [02:34:00] I would, um, Blow your brains out.

[02:34:03] No, no, no. no I, to keep me from blowing my brains out, I would be constantly looking for what you were referring to that, what's that creative thing that you can do? Exactly. Working one-on-one with, uh, an incredible surfer and, uh, and, and the technology of creating a wave. And that to me would be, uh, pretty exciting.

[02:34:24] I still would wanna be able to get away from there and go chase real waves. Uh, it.

[02:34:30] Tyler: It's interesting to me with the wave pool thing like I think like maybe 10 years ago They started to experiment with those rigs where you had like 10 or 20 cameras on a on a rig And it would shoot all like the circle once so then you could yeah, it would get

[02:34:48] Jimmy: the standing thing.

[02:34:49] Yeah. Yeah I'm

[02:34:51] Tyler: curious. I have not seen that really yet on the wave pool and that's like the perfect place to do that Actually, and I, like, I think there's, [02:35:00] there's so much that can be done actually at WavePools that hasn't been explored yet. If I, if

[02:35:04] Jimmy: I was connected with the WavePool, I mean, obviously.

[02:35:08] Yeah.

[02:35:11] Not again. What's novel about this time is this is the first time I didn't ask you if you're still there. Yeah.

[02:35:20] Tyler: I just wouldn't get it. So if you were still at the wave pool.

[02:35:26] Jimmy: If I was connected with the wave pool where I had access. Because you would have to have, because it's costly. You can't, you can't just, you know, command a weight pull for a day.

[02:35:40] And, and, but if you were in that situation where you had it for an hour each evening or something, or off times, or when they weren't booked up or something, and, uh, I would connect with somebody like GoPro or somebody to, uh, you know, just dream up some real creative ideas and approach them. And, and, but you need somebody like that behind you to start pursuing [02:36:00] all that kind of stuff.

[02:36:01] Tyler: GoPro, if you're listening,

[02:36:03] Jimmy: uh, yeah, no GoPro, if you're listening. And I think you could really do some phenomenal imagery. That's, you know, beyond the pale of what, what, you know, is being.

[02:36:14] Tyler: Totally. I, I a hundred

[02:36:16] Jimmy: percent agree. But, you know, white pools are going to, I mean, they're going to, to, um, and they have been growing in, in what they can produce, you know?

[02:36:24] So there's, there's a lot of, a lot of parts of the medium that are, uh, uh, dynamic and fluid and moving, uh, in better and better direction. So. So.

[02:36:37] Tyler: When this book came out, I mean, when you got approached, did you approach Rizzoli, or did someone approach you about making this book? No, that's a,

[02:36:45] Jimmy: it's a, that's a really good question, a really good story, and, uh, I love telling it because, um, I, I, I went back and forth trying to do this book for quite a few years, and, uh, I had to wait to a point in [02:37:00] my life where I could give enough time to it in order for it to, to make sure it came out somewhat of what, you know, I hoped it to come out.

[02:37:09] And, uh, you know, and so through that process of trying to do it myself and working with some really, uh, talented, capable companies and people, but it would still be my effort, a hundred percent. Um, uh, what I heard a lot was if you work with a publisher, you're not going to be able to do it your way.

[02:37:27] They're going to dictate all this stuff. And, and, uh, and so I, I really never pursued any publisher. Uh, I didn't want to, I, I didn't want to do these pitches and end up having them tell me what my surf book should be, and especially if it was a big enough publisher to do it correctly, the chances of them fully understanding the nuances of what I was trying to do, uh, portray a really special time in surfing that maybe mainstream people wouldn't understand.

[02:37:58] But they would appreciate [02:38:00] because it was authentic and cool, but that's a hard thing to sell to a publisher that doesn't, that wants just to see big waves and, you know, um, and more mass looking imagery. Uh, but, but then, uh, getting frustrated with myself, not with any of the people I was working with, I've just not been able to stick to a timeline.

[02:38:22] Um, you know, there's the old thing with the rock and roll bands that, uh, from the savages and stuff that the album is going to be finished when it, when, when they finish it, when it's done. Well, I bet they're all, I can tell you from my experience with, with the book pre Rizzoli, there's probably a lot of.

[02:38:42] Albums out there that never got made that we'll never know about you know The legendary rolling stones and led zeppelin albums Those are the ones those guys had somebody in there no matter how many months they were past their deadline cracking the whip and totally and so [02:39:00] and maybe cracking the whip's not the right term just Project managing it.

[02:39:04] Pushing you. Pushing you. Encouraging. Exactly. And, um, so out of nowhere, uh, uh, a good friend, uh, who we all know, uh, who I used to shoot when he was a little kid, little hot kid before he turned pro back in the day, Jamie Brissick, uh, said, look, you know, uh, He'd been following me on social. We've been going back and forth, but he goes, a good friend of mine is an editor at Rizzoli and they are looking, you know, they quite possibly could be interested.

[02:39:36] They're, they're doing a few surf titles and, uh, her name is, uh, I met

[02:39:43] Tyler: her recently. Martinka, yeah. She's great.

[02:39:45] Jimmy: Wonderful, very, very, very, uh, smart, creative person. Uh, she, she prior to, to being an editor for Rizzoli, she, uh, is an artist and, and very talented. Um, [02:40:00] but so Jamie set that up. So I started working with, uh, Martinka and Martinka, uh, quickly, uh, Uh, started helping me shape images into a deck that would, uh, be presentable to Rizzoli and, you know, Rizzoli has her process you have to go through.

[02:40:18] It's not like she's behind it, therefore it has to be kind of, uh, gotten behind by other editors who may not know anything about surfing. And so through the process, um, The publisher, Charles Myers, got, uh, got kind of behind it. He saw it as a little special project and had, uh, you know, they, they, I think some of their recent titles is with, uh, Sean White, uh,

[02:40:47] Tyler: Yeah.

[02:40:48] Con, Kai Lenny recently. Well, surfing

[02:40:50] Jimmy: wise, but I mean, they're doing, they just did a Ralph Lauren book, uh, uh, not John Legend. Who did they do? They [02:41:00] just did another big, uh, And plus they're, they're, they're known for, for food and interior, uh, beautiful food and interior, uh, uh, books. So my project is just kind of this quirky little, you know, organic thing that, that had texture and it was at the time and a place of the young photographer just starting out.

[02:41:20] And, uh, I think, uh, the publisher Charles Myers kind of liked the, for lack of better term, the innocence and the textural. Tactical feel of it and he got behind it. And so it ended up becoming the fruition and um It was only through The fact that it was through with risoli that that I was able to stay to those timelines that I wasn't able to stay to before Uh, you know being pushed and and saying, you know, and I pushed that I pushed beyond time the deadlines.

[02:41:50] They gave me quite a few times um but they were wonderful working through that and there was Uh Martinka, [02:42:00] who I dealt with the most, and, uh, and then Charles Meyers through Martinka, uh, they, from, from the get go, they wanted to try to pursue and achieve my vision. There never was any of that horror story stuff you hear from big publishers of them telling you what, you know, your project's going to be.

[02:42:19] Uh, which I'm sure somewhere, someplace does, you know, there's, there's truth to that. It happens. Yeah, it happens, but not, not in this case, not with Rizzoli whatsoever. Uh. And I was very appreciative that, you know, it's, it's, uh, I say this as a creative person, you can't look at anything you did and not look at it and go, God, I wish I changed that, you know, but that's on me.

[02:42:42] That wasn't on anybody else. And there, there, there are things that I wish I could change, but very little, you know, I think you have to look at the piece. Uh, it's not like a pencil drawing where you have an eraser and one in, you know, uh, when it's, when it's printed, it's printed and. Uh, I look at very few things that [02:43:00] I would change.

[02:43:00] I wanted to get this feel of a time and a place that whether you were there or not, you would have wished you were there. That was important, even though it kind of. Fell in a time when there weren't a lot of photographers and a lot of notice given to it. It was a very important time and, uh, and it, it, it was a time that like we were speaking for and speaking about the beginning, that we all can relate to these different experiences 'cause are very similar to what we have.

[02:43:31] And I tried to convey that, I hope, where you could put yourself into this and be me or be whomever and experience it firsthand. Well.

[02:43:42] Tyler: It's absolutely a stunning book. Wow, that's, I appreciate it. Like I am, no, like when I got a copy of this I was just like, Are you kidding me? And then my brother came and he was frothing over it and everyone who's come over recently and stayed with me have just This is the first [02:44:00] book they go to, to look at, and a few, you know, but it's, it really is like, I mean, for me, who's a, a big Tom Curren fan, you know, like, uh, like a huge, huge fan and, and like, we've, we've, uh, talked about even in the, in the past and, and exchanged, you know, and messages like, I loved your, you know, California Halcyon Days article in Surfer's Journal.

[02:44:27] That was like such a, For me and my brother, we talk about that article all the time. And then to see this in a book is, is really special. That makes me feel good. Really, really stoked to, to, that you, you put this out and also that you're able to, um, you know, that you're, that you're able to come on the show.

[02:44:48] So I'm really excited and I really

[02:44:50] Jimmy: appreciate it. The, uh, so I was just start talking about Sam.

[02:44:56] Tyler: No, honestly, I just wanted to just. [02:45:00] I'm, I'm, uh, I'm closing it up basically. And I just wanted to, to thank you so much for,

[02:45:07] Jimmy: well, let me acknowledge two people real quick. Do we have time? Yeah, of course. Yeah. So the book could not have been done without, uh, Without Sam George, uh, his, his background with, with screenplays and, and following arcs, uh, was, we went back and forth, uh, for, for almost eight days straight trying to get the storyline correct.

[02:45:28] And then, um, the other person is, is interesting enough is a gentleman by the name of Jim Newitt, and, uh, people may not know who he is, but they know his work. He is the, uh, he's the creative person behind the, uh, The, uh, the surfer's journal. Oh, man. He designs the cover of the magazine. Um, Grant Ellis, who was a big influence in how, uh, because he had just finished the surfer's book with Rizzoli.

[02:45:55] So we went back and forth. He's also the photo editor at surface journals. [02:46:00] Jim Newitt was the designer of the book. And people ask me quite often, um, why did we pick the orange? For the spine and the limited edition box set. And I've gotten questions, the study of orange, the science behind orange, the human reaction to orange.

[02:46:19] And I said, I wanted yellow, Jim wanted red, and we decided on compromising orange.

[02:46:26] Tyler: I love it in orange. I thought you were going to say something like it had to relate to that. Wetsuit that Tom, me. When he was young, didn't want to give up.

[02:46:34] Jimmy: That's why I wanted yellow. That's a very astute, uh, observation of

[02:46:38] Tyler: yours.

[02:46:38] Yeah, I thought it was going to be something along those lines, but I was like, Oh wait, that was yellow.

[02:46:43] Jimmy: Okay. And so let me, let me, uh, I'm talking off record right now. Let me tie this, tie this into Chris at, at, uh, Pilgrim. Is that okay?

[02:46:53] Tyler: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[02:46:57] Jimmy: So, uh, I will be signing books at, uh, [02:47:00] Pilgrim on a Sunday night, uh, this coming up Sunday, the 29th from five to seven.

[02:47:05] We'll have a slideshow at six. And interesting enough. Uh, I said, you guys designed the, the social media little poster. I go, I'm interested in seeing your take on it. And they picked a yellow sleeve wetsuit shot and they use yellow. Yes. And basically what they did was how I saw the, the cover, the yellow and the cover

[02:47:27] Tyler: Brilliant. That's awesome.

[02:47:29] Jimmy: So full circle on that one.

[02:47:31] Tyler: Well, if it sells through on this one, you can make the next one yellow . I can make

[02:47:35] Jimmy: the, I can make the next one yellow, but then, uh, I will probably have Jim DeWit design it again and, and we'll have to compromise. But he's, he's, we, we butted head a couple of times and I have to, uh, if he ever, ever.

[02:47:47] Uh, has the opportunity to listen to this. I look back at everything that I, every battle that I won with him and that he got frustrated with me and I look back and wish I would have gone with what he said. [02:48:00]

[02:48:01] Tyler: Jim, if you're listening.

[02:48:03] Jimmy: As a creative person, it took years and years for me to learn how to say that, you know, because I think we all started creative careers is pretty much, you know, it's all me.

[02:48:13] I'm the one who knows everything. Well.

[02:48:17] Tyler: Jimmy, I really appreciate you coming on. It's, it's such an honor. And God, like we're at three hours now. I'm sorry to take up so much of

[02:48:26] Jimmy: your time. Minus about 20 minutes of freeze time. Yeah.

[02:48:30] Tyler: But I honestly like this is I mean, I I feel like I went over everything I wanted, but to be honest, I was quite overwhelmed, uh, before this, because I just, there's just so much I want to, you know, ask and pick your brain about and, and, and try to understand.

[02:48:46] And so, um, it, it's been really gratifying. So I hope our listeners enjoy it, because I certainly, Enjoyed this and and fully nerded out on this. So I I'm super cool. Yeah. No, [02:49:00]

[02:49:00] Jimmy: you got me to nerd out a bit too. And I get kind of embarrassed because if you get me to, if you get me to start talking, I lose, you know, kind of that sense of, of, okay, here's what cool is.

[02:49:11] And here's what not cool is. And I just become this big nerd talking about stuff and when I see, I keep going until I see someone's eyes glass over and I go, okay, maybe I'm gone too far. I

[02:49:22] Tyler: loved it. So where can our listeners find the book and where can they find you?

[02:49:28] Jimmy: Uh, so on social media, I am jimmymedico.

[02:49:32] gallery and, uh, I have a lot of fun on social media. I try to keep it very surf, very core. You are very good at it. And, uh, I have a website that's jimmy medico gallery dot com. Um, that's mostly where I sell prints. Uh, you can, you can buy a sign book there. Um, uh, in all fairness, if, uh, if you want to try to [02:50:00] get the quickest, uh, And perhaps the best price, buy it, you know, it's on all the platforms, like Amazon, everywhere.

[02:50:09] Uh, and, and, if, you know, if you're Amazon Prime and all that, you'll get zero shipping, I have to charge shipping. So, so, I would love to sell you a book, but just buy it from me if it means something to have the author or the photographer sign it. Uh, Or go

[02:50:22] Tyler: to your local surf shop that has it. Or go

[02:50:24] Jimmy: to your local source shop that has it.

[02:50:27] Tyler: Absolutely. Oh, man. That's actually the quickest way to do it. This has been such a pleasure. I really appreciate it. And, uh, thank you so much for coming on. And, uh, yeah, listeners, definitely go and, uh, get this book and, uh, and, uh, listeners we'll check you on down the line soon.

[02:50:48] Thank you for listening and, uh, go get a copy of Shaping Surf History by Jimmy Medeco.

[02:50:55] Jimmy: Thanks, Tyler. You,

[02:50:57]Tyler:thank you, Jimmy.[02:51:00]