[00:00:00] Tyler: The Swell Season podcast is recorded by the New Stand Studio at Rockefeller Center in the heart of Manhattan and is distributed by the Swell Season Surf Radio Network.

[00:00:56] Hello and welcome to the Swell Season Surf [00:01:00] Podcast. I'm your host, Tyler Brewer. On this episode, we're joined with Arthur. award winning filmmaker, podcaster, and surf trip guru, Laurel Sinek. She just completed her first novel, Foam, a surf adventure with the female protagonist, Cassandra Lee, who is an out of work journalist whose life is in shambles and runs to Puerto Rico in hopes of realizing her dreams.

[00:01:29] It's when she is researching a freediver's death, she uncovers a drug ring and kidnapping plot and discovers that this sleepy town has a darker underbelly. It's a welcome novel that fills a missing genre of women's fiction and also follows in the tradition of Winslow.

[00:01:55] Laurel is from Wilmington, North Carolina, but has made her way up [00:02:00] north for the Women's Surf Film Festival, which is happening this week in New York in Rockway. And I am stoked to have her on the show again. You may remember her from last year's Women's Surf Film Festival episode. So, Laurel. Welcome to Swell Season.

[00:02:16] Psyched to get you in the studio, actually, and not in front of a live audience, at

[00:02:20] Laurel: least. Yes, thank you, Tyler. Thanks for having me. I want to get you to rewrite the back copy of my book. Oh,

[00:02:28] Chris: yeah? Well, all I did was just jumble around and move your words around a little. I liked

[00:02:32] Laurel: it. It was better.

[00:02:35] Chris: I did go to school for creative non fiction writing, so I was very good at rearranging other people's work.

[00:02:44] Laurel: You know what? That's a good skill to have.

[00:02:47] Chris: So listeners, uh, Laurel and I just rode the subway in from Rockway, so the whole show is basically over now. We've already talked about everything, so. If you want

[00:02:56] Laurel: to hear it, then you'll just need to ride the S train [00:03:00] and, uh. It's

[00:03:01] Chris: a broad channel. Yes. Yeah. Um. I wanted to start, uh, Laurel, with, um, this question of what do you think it is, uh, about surfing that lends itself as a perfect backdrop for like a mystery noir or suspense novel?

[00:03:20] Um, you know, it's like funny, but like in doing research for this, you know, and I've been very familiar with like Kem Nunn books, which are phenomenal books. As I started looking, there's like a whole huge genre of this, like, suspense, mystery, noir, surf, you know, books, and surfing is the backdrop for all this, and I was just curious, like, you know, what, what do you think it is about surfing that lends itself to it?

[00:03:45] Laurel: Well, maybe just because it is a little dangerous. Yeah. You know. True. True. Especially when it's crowded. Mm hmm. Um, and you do get to go to some different places that, you know, they're a little exotic and [00:04:00] I love that you mentioned Kim Nunn because that's who I read, you know, when I first looked for, like, Cool surf books.

[00:04:05] Yeah. He's who I found. Oh,

[00:04:07] Chris: and he's, he's, he's, he's brilliant, you know? Yeah. He's, he's just such a phenomenal writer and so prolific too. Yeah, yeah. And it's crazy. So many of his books are around surfing, you know?

[00:04:20] Laurel: Yeah, and it's, he is a little like, I wouldn't say foam is really very dark. No. But his is definitely, cause you just, when you're reading that, you're kind of like in another world.

[00:04:30] He takes you there.

[00:04:31] Chris: He's, he's our Raymond Chandler for surf, basically, the noir writer. Um, I don't know, like, I feel like surfing, the reason being also is because we, we tend to go to these idyllic places, right? Like, that are supposed to be paradise, and They're crazy! There, there's always, like, an underbelly, like, everywhere I've ever traveled And spent like a lot of time in, which is supposed to be like perfect surf [00:05:00] locations.

[00:05:00] Mm hmm. And the moment I start to get to know the locals more and start to get a, you know, just, just pinch that, that, that little seal a little bit more. And all of a sudden you're like, Oh, whoa, there's a lot of shit going on here. Yeah. Well,

[00:05:14] Laurel: I feel like, you know, you get that and rock away a little bit.

[00:05:17] Like once I've, this is my second time here. I'm hearing a little bit of the, like, what's really going on. Surf politics. Yeah, a little bit of that. And then, you know, Puerto Rico, which I've been to quite a bit. Um, somebody wrote this kind of cool book called Derelict Junction. And, uh, kind of, you know, you change people's names that I don't think you changed, you know, much of anything else.

[00:05:40] So people recognize themselves. Oh, wow.

[00:05:43] Chris: That's got to be awkward. Yeah. Well, you, you, you spend, you go every winter to Puerto Rico, and now you also have a house down there. And I was curious, like, then, how much do you pull from that, from your, your, uh, research, I'll [00:06:00] call

[00:06:00] Laurel: it? You know? I should have written it all off.

[00:06:02] That's what I've just been pissed off about, that the IRS got my money when they shouldn't have. Um. Well, definitely there's stories in there that were, um, pulled from my life and, and then just the creative process. You Yeah. I didn't do a lot. I didn't know what I was doing when I started because I started eight years ago.

[00:06:24] Yeah, it was a long journey and I would just get up. I didn't have any extra time in my day. So I just decided, okay, um, don't want to take any surf time. I don't have any other time. So I'm going to get up an hour and a half early and just start riding. Wow. Yeah. And, uh, and so, but it turned out to be.

[00:06:42] Brilliant in its own way because it was, I was too asleep to really have that critique hat on that, that critic that's going to say, this is dumb as hell. And so I just wrote and didn't critique it because I was still asleep. And then I would just take this. loads of junk. You [00:07:00] know, that shitty first draft is more real.

[00:07:03] I mean, I, I don't know. Maybe somebody's written a good first draft, but mine was, it was junk. And, but you just pull the little nuggets from the junk. And since I wrote it by hand, I was, yeah,

[00:07:16] Chris: how's your carpal tunnel?

[00:07:20] Laurel: Well, uh, since it was eight years ago, no, I did write another one by hand. I've written the.

[00:07:27] the structure for it. But, um, and then I had to speak it into the computer. Yeah. So that really helped kind of start the editing process. But I worked in mental health, and I did a lot of clinical notes. And so I didn't, every time I went to the computer, it was this very, um, bland thought process. So I had to go to the

[00:07:47] Chris: Well, let me ask that, like how, so you are like this incredible, listeners, like Laurel is incredible.

[00:07:53] Like she is very prolific. She has podcasts, she's a award winning filmmaker, right? Like [00:08:00] I, and you, you dabble, you, okay, done, uh, you, you, I don't want to say, I don't want to say dabble, I guess, but you, you have your fingers in a lot of different creative processes. And you also, like, learned surfing at a later age.

[00:08:18] And one thing I was curious about is, like, how do you set off on the process of learning a new skill? Because it's really interesting, like, you... You, you, I mean you do film, you, you do screen, screenplay writing, you podcast, you, you, you're really creative and, and quite impressive and so I was just like curious like if someone wanted to try to do what you do, like how, is there a process when you learn something new or pick something

[00:08:48] Laurel: up?

[00:08:49] First, you gotta learn to surf. Yeah. Well, yeah. That's the genesis of all this stuff. No, I was always super creative. The hard part is really kind of. Funneling in on the [00:09:00] one thing and um, when I did the first film I had like television show ideas and different little things and then I just realized that I'm not going to do any of those things unless I do one and at a time and so I just put everything else aside and worked on Any Given Morning which was the first little film that I did about the community of people that I surf with and it was such a act of, it was like a love.

[00:09:25] Fest. Really? I mean, I just fell in love with surfing. I fell in love with the community of people that I surfed with. And I mean, I just wanted to celebrate that. Yeah. And then things started once you once I decided it just seems like. Things fell into place, like the person, the moment I said it out loud, the person that I said it to, her husband, they just moved here to Wilmington from Atlanta, and she's like, my husband surfs and he does photography, can he be a part of this somehow?

[00:09:53] Like, yeah, he ended up like DP ing most of it. Wow. And then into the coffee shop walked some of the people that I used to work [00:10:00] with in the film business, and I was, said it to them, and they were like, you know, we're not working right now, we'll help you, and you know, so I, It was like, boom, boom, boom, and then I was like, I guess I'm doing this, you know?

[00:10:11] Do

[00:10:11] Chris: you have like a, like, cause it, it's, there's a technical skill that you have to learn too. And I'm wondering, like, do you just dive into YouTube videos or is it reading or is it just through the experience of trial and error?

[00:10:26] Laurel: Well, with the filming, I had worked in the film business, and that I had some experience with, and I worked in the camera department.

[00:10:33] Um, well, I started in the craft service department. I was a snack lady. The craft

[00:10:38] Chris: service? I was

[00:10:38] Laurel: crafty. That was such a fun job.

[00:10:42] Chris: My God, you make everyone happy. You're everyone's best friend. You know? Except for the person who's

[00:10:48] Laurel: allergic to peanuts. Yeah, and except for that, and then I found myself bitching to this one DP from Australia who's so cool.

[00:10:55] He's so nice. He's like, well, what do you want to do? And I was like, I want to direct, of course, [00:11:00] you know? But he said, well, you should try the camera department. And then gave me a shot on his next film in the Bahamas for three months and yeah, and anyway, but with the writing for foam, um, I started, it actually was a friend of mine had called and I'd really actually my husband and I had a miscarriage and I was just in a place and my friend called and said there was a, uh, a writer's group starting in Wilmington and I was like, as soon as she said it, I was like, where, what time, I will be there.

[00:11:37] And I started going and I just started writing non fiction and just about life and the loss and our marriage or surfing, love to write about surfing. And about two years into it, the chapter president was like, Laurel, you're so creative, I think you should try fiction. And I was like, You know what? I know [00:12:00] exactly what I want to write.

[00:12:02] And then that began the journey. And it was a long one because I didn't know what I was doing.

[00:12:07] Chris: Did you, did you map out the story ahead of time? Or were you just writing through? You didn't have like a, a, a beginning, middle, end, uh, thought out ahead of time, did

[00:12:20] Laurel: you? I had some thoughts, like I had some ideas, like I knew I wanted a treasure, you know, like some pirate stuff.

[00:12:28] I like Sahara, it's like a movie that I enjoy, you know. All the Indiana Joneses, I like action, fun stuff. MacGuffins

[00:12:37] Chris: are great ways to move, move stories forward,

[00:12:41] Laurel: you know. And um, so, um, just, I, Had a few ideas and so those times in the early morning were just flushing it out And then then I was stuck with this thing that had no structure No real technique or anything that was put into it.

[00:12:57] Just some ideas that had floated through. And [00:13:00] then, then I just started learning. Then I started going to classes. I brought them to my, I was in the critique group. So you just, the critique group is a cold read. Yeah. So the person on your right will read this critique, and then the person on your left starts critiquing it.

[00:13:14] And, and so they've never, they don't, they've never read it, which your reader when they read your book has never read it. So you can't go, Oh no, that's supposed to mean this. And, um, and then just taking some classes and figuring it out as I went. Now I've written the second one, it's called Luminescent.

[00:13:30] And I did have some structure. I did, you know, like then I knew, okay, you got to pivot here. You have to have a switcheroo here. And, and so I think that's going to be better than this one.

[00:13:41] Chris: How are you with the critiques? Like I know from my own personal experience and going to school for writing it would be Excruciating sometimes because you're so married to your creative work.

[00:13:57] Mm hmm, and it's so hard to hear [00:14:00] People have issue with it, you know, or yeah, or you know Or the critiques that you'd get like because they're not a lot of times. They're not always technical critiques, which I think is much more easy to handle, like grammatical changes or whatever structure. But when they start to talk about your story and where it's going or the type of character you have, that's when it becomes personal.

[00:14:22] Laurel: It is. It is. It's tough. It's something, though, you've got to embrace, for sure. And I mean, it was, you know, your heart starts racing, and my face turns red. But in our critique group, we don't allow the author to say anything. So you cannot, like, no matter what the critiques are, you do not defend it. You just sit silent.

[00:14:45] But I think it helped that I did start with nonfiction. Because then I was writing about my life, and that was even more... Intimate, you know, you're writing these personal stories and then they're critiquing the whole thing, you know, so [00:15:00] But you know, we do the sandwich method so you get like positive critique positive But that helped me I mean, I could not have done it without the writing groups because that really you need those it is a lonely journey Yeah, you're only writing by yourself And when you bring it into this community, they're encouraging you, you know, they're wrestling with the same things you are.

[00:15:21] And I mean, it just made me better. So that was, you need it.

[00:15:27] Chris: And we will be right back. And now back to our show. Can you give a brief overview of the story to our listeners, just a little taste of what they can expect from the story?

[00:15:43] Laurel: Sure. Sure. Well, this, uh, young woman, she is, it's kind of, I guess, a search for who she is.

[00:15:51] She's had some tough situations. Her father's passed away. Her mom's become an alcoholic. And, and I would say she is [00:16:00] running away from home. But, you know, she's in her 20s. But she's, she's leaving what she's known and she's following this guy. And, uh, this is really bad.

[00:16:09] Chris: She's following this guy. Does she surf?

[00:16:12] Yeah. Yeah. Goofy foot or regular foot? Regular. Alright. There you go. Very important. We gotta establish that. That's good.

[00:16:19] Laurel: And, um. And so she follows this guy, but I kind of was thinking, where is the place that, like, I would least want to go? Like, I want to, you want to send your main character into the pit, right?

[00:16:30] Yeah. And so she leaves Wrightsville Beach and she goes to Nova Scotia. Yeah. Because I'm just always chasing the endless summer, so I will not get to stay in cold waves. So I thought, ugh, this is terrible. But, you know, there's a really huge, thriving, beautiful Nova

[00:16:45] Chris: Scotia surface. I've been there. The waves are amazing.

[00:16:48] Yeah. Very, very good.

[00:16:49] Laurel: Yeah. Yeah, so and I've actually gotten to meet some of these really cool ladies in Malibu and they're like, oh, yeah We're just really thankful. You didn't mention like our secret spots [00:17:00] They don't hate me But um, so she follows this guy and then Of course, uh, tragedy strikes and she does run to Puerto Rico and, um, which is where she learned to surf and then she experiences some of what is there, what lies beneath the surface as you would say, and, um, she does uncover, she does, uh, get into some free diving, which is.

[00:17:28] As you know, I'm also a podcaster and my co host is a freediver. So I had her expert knowledge as I'm writing. Like, how's this sound? Does this work? I even took her class and I was so bad at it. Freediving?

[00:17:43] Chris: Yes. Why? What did, what, what, what was difficult for you with

[00:17:47] Laurel: freediving? Well, number one, my, my partner, the guy that was with me or not my partner, but he was a, you know, you're paired off.

[00:17:55] He did five minutes. Like. He just did five minutes with his face in the pool. Oh my [00:18:00] gosh. And he meditated and blah blah blah. And so then I was like, you know, and I couldn't do a minute. I could do a minute right now, I think, but I couldn't do a minute. And then Ashley had to come over and like put her hand on my back.

[00:18:13] She's like, okay, Laurel, because your ears are out, your face is in the pool. She's like, you're waxing your board, you're walking out to the surf, you're looking at the waves. So then I could. I made it like a minute and a half, but it was not, I didn't do well. Then we went out to, um, where the, the wreck was out in the interco I mean, um, uh, I don't even know what it's called, but we were way out in the ocean and her husband was leading us and we had to dive down and I'm like, okay, I'm ready.

[00:18:43] He's like, Laurel, why don't you get behind this person over here because I can tell you're breathing really heavy. And I was like, I was just excited, but I didn't even notice that I was like, you know?

[00:18:57] So, of course, I didn't make it down to see the [00:19:00] cool sharks, whatever. Yeah, I know. See,

[00:19:04] Chris: the sharks are what would get my heart rate going, though. Yeah, yeah. Who would burn a lot of oxygen very quickly, then.

[00:19:12] Laurel: Yeah. I mean, it's... I know I went off topic. What

[00:19:15] Chris: was the question? No, no, no. You were giving an overview.

[00:19:17] And it goes I imagine the treasure has...

[00:19:24] Something to do with the free diving as well, and all sorts of other, you know, kind of dark underbelly things tend to happen, I guess. So wait, you haven't read it? I've only, I've got, I've started getting into it, but I haven't read the whole thing yet. Okay. Yes, I'll be honest with you listeners. Yes. You know, it's

[00:19:44] Laurel: He's only read the first couple of chapters.

[00:19:47] The first chapter? Oh

[00:19:48] Chris: yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know, it's a You know, busy, busy month, you know. Oh yeah, I'm

[00:19:54] Laurel: not, oh yeah. You're forgiven. Thank you, thank

[00:19:58] Chris: you. Listeners, [00:20:00] I'm an awful host. I will take my penance in the lineup. You can all drop in on me.

[00:20:07] Laurel: Yeah, I did get where you surfed today, so now I know. Now you know.

[00:20:11] I

[00:20:12] Chris: can come find you. Um, what about, like, how did you find inspiration for the characters, then? So, like, Cassandra Lee, how much of you is in her, would you say?

[00:20:22] Laurel: I've had a lot of people ask that question. Yeah. Definitely. A younger version, maybe. Yeah, younger version. Um, she's very driven, which I would say I'm maybe not so driven, but, um, I would just say she's kind of, um, I feel like as young women, we often kind of look at these relationships that we get into and, um, We're just not ready for maybe a little bit and then when something really like a curveball comes in life Like how to respond to that and I feel like she responded by [00:21:00] getting into the drug scene and a little escapism That was there and that I could identify with that was something that was not all true, but definitely experienced a lot of that for a while and Just having that A little bit of being lost, like not sure what's next, but you're just grabbing hold of kind of what's coming your way, and, but then being able to just Interesting new people that come in that kind of speak a word of wisdom here or help you Just make better choices, you know, maybe bad things have to happen sometimes for the choices to change.

[00:21:40] Yeah

[00:21:41] Chris: It's well, it's interesting Like I one of the things I struggled with always when I wrote I would always write from my perspective you know, I was good from writing like memoir but getting into other people's heads or creating characters and Make sure they remain [00:22:00] true to those characters is a really difficult thing and I'm curious like how you went about doing that because I imagine as being this first time writing a book like it's, it's difficult, you know, because you're like, because for me, I'm like, Oh, I'm Putting too much of myself in this character, in that character, and not...

[00:22:19] And they all sound the same. Yeah, exactly, exactly. You know, and not being cliched characters either.

[00:22:24] Laurel: Yes, yeah. So, um, I did have a woman who was, um, you know, a different culture. And there's a little child in there, and of course the guys. Um... So, one of my favorite authors is Alexander McCall Smith, and he wrote the No.

[00:22:42] 1 Ladies Detective Agency, but he's written, he's so prolific, he writes all these series, and he has this cool series that has this kid, and I just loved how he wrote that child's point of view, and so when I started writing, I was actually writing, um, that that person would [00:23:00] have. Yeah. And, you know, cause I didn't know, Oh, you mean you can't just jump heads?

[00:23:05] I can't just go this person's side, you know, it's you're in that person's head now. So, but that helped, I think form those characters. So if you're thinking it is in their head and coming from their perspective, I feel like you can get a little further. Like actually something that really helped me was I wrote it in third person.

[00:23:22] And then, one of the things I felt like I really struggled with was that interior life. And it, and I, I don't know, maybe I'm not that deep, I don't know, but once I put it in first person, I could get there. Yeah. But I couldn't get there in the third person, so that was a

[00:23:41] Chris: hard to do that, you know, it's a really difficult skill set, you know, to try to and to make it seem relatable and and

[00:23:50] Laurel: I think it's a good exercise to change POVs though, because that then you can take a piece and it's a totally different story.

[00:23:58] Yeah. And then you can get a little [00:24:00] deeper in that person's mind and heart when you're, like, putting yourself in that person's shoes.

[00:24:05] Chris: Totally. Well, that, that to me, it makes more sense, you know? It's like, Like I said, like, I, I, I wrote memoirs, so it was easier for me to write in first person than from a, from a, omnibus narrator or from third person, you know, it, it, it becomes much easier to kind of get into that person's head and write what they're actually, their motivations are.

[00:24:27] And you know, and I, I obviously I was always, and I'm sure you've learned this is also like show don't tell. Yeah. Oh

[00:24:34] Laurel: God. Like, you think you know what it is, and you realize you don't know what it is. And then you think you know what it is, and then you don't know what it is. And then you, what helped me the most was when you hire an editor.

[00:24:46] Yeah. And then you learn that they don't change it for you. That was a good life lesson. But, no, they give you, you know, all the notes, and then you're like, Oh, the light bulbs just go off. And then by the [00:25:00] end... I could pull them out. I could see it. I, you know, and so, it was such, that was worth more than what I paid that person for sure.

[00:25:08] And, you know, one thing about perspective is, you know, when, when I learned to surf 20 years ago, I wanted to, I love to read, so I wanted to have that book. That had a woman's perspective that surfed

[00:25:25] Chris: and 20 years ago. That was Definitely not in the cards, you know, and it's only Now we're starting to see more female writers, you know Writing those protagonists like it was interesting like researching.

[00:25:40] It's like there's that Taylor Jenkins who does the the Malibu Malibu

[00:25:45] Laurel: rise? Yeah, and really she doesn't do I mean That one had surfing in it, but that wasn't her genre, you know, like there was a whole different genre like Josie and the six. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but um, and then Allie Reynolds. Yeah [00:26:00] wrote shiver She was a snowboarder and she's a surfer.

[00:26:04] And so her book came out really like a few months before mine So I was on the waiting list for that. I was like, thank you

[00:26:12] Chris: It's great though, right? Like it's really it's What I love about this book and what I love about this genre is just it, to me, it pushes what surfing could be further along, you know, like far, like also like your, your film, uh, Wax Shoes, Wahineys, which I loved.

[00:26:32] It's this comedy mystery, you know, Kind of, well, Scooby Doo esque, you know, in the greatest possible ways. Lister, she did this great movie, Waxed Shoes, Wahineys, definitely try to check it out if you can find it. It was at the Women's Surf Film Festival last year. But it was great because it was, um, you know, it's pushing the surf, what surfing can be, you know?

[00:26:55] I, there's only so much surf porn I can watch. There's only, there's [00:27:00] only so many documentaries about how great surfing is that I can watch, you know? Or how... This person overcame this thing to surf, you know, it's like There needs to be more and I love the fact that you're pushing those boundaries and you know, surfing obviously is not the main thing and should never be the main thing.

[00:27:20] It should always be the backdrop, I think, or the vehicle to tell a story. Uh, but I really love like how you're just kind of exploring and pushing the boundaries of what surfing and surf media and content can be. Thank

[00:27:34] Laurel: you. Thank you for that. That, that means a lot because that's something that, you know.

[00:27:39] There wasn't anything like that. Now you can go to a bookstore and you can pick up Allie Reynolds book or you know, something, their foam. Yeah. And, and read something that there you are, you know,

[00:27:51] Chris: I want more surf comedy, to be honest. Yeah. Okay. Like I want more surf comedy and not, you know, Tyler [00:28:00] Allen or one of those guys.

[00:28:01] Like, they're fine, but they, they're kind of quirky and I don't think they're particularly. Not saying they're not smart, but their comedy isn't very smart to me. I, you know, and I think, I'm gonna task you with this. The next thing you gotta write is like a funny comedy or something, you know. Or maybe we could work on it together.

[00:28:20] Like, I think there should be a curvier enthusiasm for surfing. Like, there's, that is ripe for it. There's so much etiquette in surfing that if you break it, and if you had a character like Larry David, who was just like, But you can't just paddle around. That's, that's just, you're breaking the rules. Like, if, if we don't follow rules of society, all of society falls apart, you know?

[00:28:42] Laurel: That would be so insane. That would be so insane. Oh, man. How many characters could we like, oh,

[00:28:50] Chris: like? So much. Right. damn . One of the things I also love in your description of this [00:29:00] book was a mix of Blue Crush and Wild. You know,

[00:29:06] Laurel: that was kind of out there, wasn't it? I thought

[00:29:08] Chris: it was good though. I mean like do, would you say that that's kind of.

[00:29:13] A bit of like the those ingredients

[00:29:15] Laurel: in there. Definitely. I mean, so Blue Crush, like the one thing I think about when I think about foam, like she had a friend that visited, but really she was kind of out there on her own. She was, you know, following this guy, this place. Then she was running away to this place.

[00:29:30] So she was starting somewhere new each time. So she didn't have that core group. Um, like Blue Crush did, but it had the surfing in the feel good vibe. I think of that. Yeah. But then Wilde had that great journey of. The addiction, the sorrow, the tragedy, and just the full on emotional rollercoaster that I do feel like Foam has.

[00:29:54] Yeah. And so that's why I picked Wild, actually.

[00:29:58] Chris: How difficult is it to [00:30:00] show your character evolving throughout the book? And is that something that you're conscious of as you're writing? Um,

[00:30:09] Laurel: so, good question. Stalling. You'll have to tell me. Did she? I don't know. Yeah. You know, somebody, where did I hear this?

[00:30:18] I heard that, um, you know, somebody was asking, how do you know if your book is ready? Yeah. And the person was like, maybe, I don't know, maybe it was a podcast. They were like, you will know. Yeah. And I was like, Bullshit. I did not know. I was still didn't know, you know, and I finally when the, I paid that one editor and then two years later.

[00:30:42] Cuz I put it on the shelf and I wrote the second one and I worked on Waxu Wahiney's and then I'm like let me get this thing back out and look at it fresh eyes and worked on it and then gave it back to her to edit again and she was like oh wow you have, you know, you've grown this [00:31:00] is all the characters blah blah and I'm like I think I'm getting close, I think I'm getting close and um, and so I didn't know and I didn't know if it was ready and I really didn't know What people would take if they'd like it.

[00:31:15] Yeah, I mean I was telling you on the subway But I'll say it for our listeners So I do a little have a little surf journal that you just log your surf stats like what's the name

[00:31:25] Chris: of it? Come on, we got a plug. It's just a

[00:31:27] Laurel: surf journal for women surf journal for women and You know inside you just log the swell the

[00:31:32] Chris: tide I were to write in it.

[00:31:34] Would I like Kind of melt, or, no, I'm just kidding.

[00:31:38] Laurel: You could absolutely write in it. And feel good about it, too. Um, so, and then, like, what was your favorite wave? And then, what are you thankful for? What are you worried about? And then, what do you need to work on?

[00:31:53] Chris: Ooh. Yeah. I love these. Prompts are great.

[00:31:56] Laurel: And so I went back and looked at it after, [00:32:00] you know, a little bit, and I had this one in Puerto Rico.

[00:32:03] So I was like, oh, what did I write in there? And it was interesting to look back and go, I'd actually written, uh, what am I worried about? Or what, you know, what's on my mind? And it was... I don't, I don't know that anyone's gonna like this book, you know, like I really don't know, like I'm nervous about putting it out there, this thing that I put so much time into and effort and I just don't really know.

[00:32:26] And then as I'm reading this months later. The book is published. I've had people come up to me that I don't know, because, you know, the ones you know, you're like, well, you have to say you like it, you know? But people I don't know coming up to me saying how much they enjoyed it, and how they liked it, and what they liked about it.

[00:32:43] And it was just like, holy crap, I'm so thankful I get to read this right

[00:32:48] Chris: now. You had that one guy come up to you who read it and you know, and you're like, oh, I didn't realize guys would even like this, you know. Yeah, another

[00:32:57] Laurel: guy came out of, um, Robert's [00:33:00] Grocery at the beach and he's like, are you Laurel?

[00:33:03] And I'm like, yeah, I thought I did something like, you know, parked in the wrong place. And it's like, they let me borrow the book that I'd left at the place to see if they'd sell it. And, um, I told him I was a fast reader and. And he's like, Oh, it's so good. And I was like, OK, OK. You know, it's a good thing I've put it out there.

[00:33:23] So

[00:33:24] Chris: I want to ask, like, do you think there are any advantages to your the content you create because of you starting surfing later in life? Mmm. And having a different perspective than growing up around it, you know, from a young age.

[00:33:46] Laurel: I think that's a good question because I haven't ever really thought about that, but I have thought often that because I learned at 35, 36.

[00:33:57] I appreciate it more than maybe [00:34:00] the young groms that have just always grown up doing it and they take it for granted and I mean, you know, they, they love it, but I love it. And not that they don't, but I mean, I feel like that did spark in me something that helped my creativity focus and kind of put this like.

[00:34:23] Because I didn't know, when I came out of the film business, back when I worked in the film business, I didn't think I'd ever go back. Yeah. I didn't think I'd ever go back into that world. Why did you leave it? Because I was burned up, burned out and burned up and not living a healthy life. And, uh, was still, you know, in my 20s and just had come up empty and, um, I felt like I didn't even want to get on the next job.

[00:34:49] So I quit. I didn't take them. It was really hard to not take the call or to take the call and say no. Well, you're so

[00:34:56] Chris: conditioned too, right? Because it's freelance. Feast or

[00:34:59] Laurel: famine. [00:35:00] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I gotta eat. But I, and I went down the street to the local co op and worked there. And it was the most laid back healing place just to fix coffee, you're working the cashier, people are coming in buying their oats, you know, and it was just like the most laid back place.

[00:35:18] But this place was the place where a woman came in. Selling an old used wetsuit to raise some money for gas money to get down to Florida for a contest. And I looked at her and that wetsuit and I thought, I want to surf. And I paid 50 bucks and bought that piece of crap wetsuit. No, it was actually, I ended up, and I did not end up surfing for another year and a half.

[00:35:47] When a friend moved into my neighborhood, and we went, um, he, you know, he surfed and I was like, I want you to teach me to surf. He had the summers off, and so we learned to surf.

[00:35:57] Chris: Let me ask, did you ever have an [00:36:00] inkling or an urge to want to surf before that? Nope. Wow. That's amazing. So this woman comes in with the wetsuit and you saw the wetsuit and you didn't think I might want to free dive or I want to do a triathlon.

[00:36:15] I want to surf because the wetsuit can be many things, you know? Well, I knew she surfed. Okay. Okay. And then what happened after that? So they're like, you get that wetsuit. And so for a year, year and a half, you sit on this wetsuit. Sat in the closet. Did you start to research surfing? No. Did you start to... No.

[00:36:34] You were just like, yep, alright, in the closet, and then this opportunity came up with your roommate. That's amazing. Now, and then...

[00:36:43] Laurel: Serendipitous. Yeah. Well... Maybe. It

[00:36:47] Chris: is. Well, yeah. And then... How did that transform your life?

[00:36:52] Laurel: Holy crap. So you got enough time? Yeah. I gotta be on a panel later. Um, [00:37:00] well, so when I learned to surf, so that summer I went out every day and he worked at a community college in the next county over, so he took his little fuel economy car to work and he left his truck.

[00:37:13] So I can walk up every day, get his truck, get a board, and drive to the surf once he went off to work. And so I then. Decided that I had, I was having a spiritual awakening as I was having this surfing beginning.

[00:37:30] Chris: They tend to go hand in hand for a lot of people. Yeah, and then,

[00:37:33] Laurel: and then don't for some people.

[00:37:34] I don't know. Yeah, yeah, true, true. Some people go the other way. Yeah. Um, but, uh, yeah, so I, um, like I said, I'd kind of burned out of, of living life for just Laurel and Laurel's Way. Even though everything looked like it was going to be fun, I just like to have fun. And so anything that, you know, the guy at the, uh, music festival comes up and he's like, [00:38:00] Oh, you wanted some liquid LSD and you're like, okay, you know, just puddle my hand.

[00:38:05] You know, you just, I just didn't, I don't know. I was just that character that was like, okay, let's try it. Yeah. And, um, but hopefully that also played into me surfing, but, um, but yeah, so I remember when, um, I kind of came back to faith and it's kind of a crazy story cause I just said it. Yeah. You're not supposed to bargain with God, but I was, I'd lived kind of the gypsy life and would leave for a show and then come back and have to restart everything again.

[00:38:34] And so I was like, I really want a home, a home base, and I'll start going to church. I grew up in a Christian family, so I had that in me, or that experience. And as soon as I woke up feeling empty, I knew because of my mom's faith and what have you that, um, That that was something that would be fulfilling for me.

[00:38:57] And, um, and so I [00:39:00] told my landlord when he came to pick up the rent check, which is what he did, that I didn't want to pay him rent anymore, that I wanted to buy a house. And, and I said, but I don't just want any house, I want a house that's unique, it's got character, and, and so he goes, I know the house you want.

[00:39:15] I said, really? He said, yeah, it's around the corner, you want to see it? And I was like, yeah, he goes, you know, my business partner, I wanted him to go in with me, but he wouldn't, and so I can't get it, and it's not even on the market yet. And we go over there, the guy's not home. And he shows me this cute little cottage, right around the corner, and I was like, oh.

[00:39:37] So the next day I ride my bike over, and knock on the door, and he answers the door, and I said, Hey, I heard you're selling your house, and I'd like to buy it. And mind you, I don't have a job. Um, and Co op, you know? No, yeah, well this is right before the co op. But um, and so, like the last job I'd worked was a film job.

[00:39:59] Yeah, [00:40:00] and um I later find out that this guy was a Pentecostal preacher. Wow. And that the next door neighbor had actually asked about buying the house, but he said he knew he was supposed to sell it to me. Wow. I know. Wow. It's just crazy. That's beautiful though. Yeah, it was. And so, and then I went to church.

[00:40:18] And then you went to church. I went. I never

[00:40:20] Chris: stopped. And then, and then of course you started attending the Church of Open Sky as

[00:40:25] Laurel: well. And that's right. Well, I, when I, I got re baptized and I fasted. Before that baptism, I thought, I just got my first board. And so I put my board over at that friend's house and, uh, Just did a little praying during what would have normally been my surf time.

[00:40:41] And then got baptized in the ocean and then took that board out and rode it. And I was so pissed because one of my friends took that damn board out before I did. He waxed it up and everything. I was like, but no, it was a nice wax job. So it's okay.

[00:40:58] Chris: And we will be right [00:41:00] back. And now back to our show. How much of like your, your faith and surfing are tied together?

[00:41:08] Would you say?

[00:41:11] Laurel: Well, I think I've said this before in any given morning, but you know, I feel like Out there, I feel loved. I just feel like I'm loved. And so, yeah, I mean, I may say a prayer about, you know, I hope I don't get eaten today or, you know, break my neck or whatever. But mainly I just feel like, you know, we know the dolphins jumping, the rainbows, the sun coming up.

[00:41:42] It's just a beautiful, beautiful gift. And I'm very thankful that I get to do it. Oh,

[00:41:48] Chris: I love that. And then, as you progress, though. We hope. Well, no, I mean, like, there's a certain zeal that comes with [00:42:00] when people pick up surfing. You know? And I'm curious, like, how, how much, uh, of your energy went to that then, into surfing?

[00:42:11] Hmm.

[00:42:12] Laurel: Well, we did get a place in Puerto Rico. That took a lot of zeal.

[00:42:19] Chris: Yeah. Well, I mean, it's like, I mean, it's interesting. Like, I've had numerous friends who learned to surf. Uh, later in life and everything is dramatically changed, you know, the whole focus of everything is changed. Um, their obsession is changed, you know, they, they, they've, some of them I've known who have went from very sedentary lifestyles or went from like a life of not a lot of passion to all of a sudden, like pouring everything into it and reading everything and watching everything, you know, and.

[00:42:57] I'm curious, I'm always curious when people [00:43:00] start later in life, like how, how much did they, you know, take on, uh, and, and then like, oh, there's always like this like enthusiasm curve, I guess, where it's like really strong, and then it like, starts to wane and plateau a little bit,

[00:43:16] Laurel: which is fine. In a healthy way, right?

[00:43:18] You know, you need that little plateau. Of course, of course. Otherwise, the trajectory is not good. Um, yeah, so I was definitely, you know, back then we would call the surf report, you know, because it was recorded on the phone, and I would call that more than I'd call my boyfriend, for sure. But then, you know, um, I did.

[00:43:36] Teach my future husband how to

[00:43:38] Chris: surf. I was gonna ask, like, was, was he a, your, your molten hot, uh, husband, by the way, that is on your bio, uh, on your website, uh, she has a molten hot, lava,

[00:43:51] Laurel: lava husband. Sweet Don, I love you so much.

[00:43:59] Chris: Don. [00:44:00] Yeah. Where is my automobile, Don?

[00:44:03] Laurel: He's such a good guy. I'm so, oh my god, this man, this man is so supportive.

[00:44:10] It is, you know, I'll have to say it's kind of perfect to have the mate who, who likes surfing, but doesn't love surfing like you love surfing. Cause then, like, we don't have our own kids, but we did foster for a number of years and. Somebody's gotta be on the beach. You know, somebody's gotta be that person.

[00:44:28] And bless his heart. He loves gardening as much as surfing. Or more than surfing, really.

[00:44:36] Chris: I can see that, though. Gardening is a very therapeutic practice. A very zen, uh, zen practice, you know, with So much knowledge to devour, actually.

[00:44:48] Laurel: Yeah. Oh, yeah. And he loves, like, the little seeds and the, you know, we order from Baker Creek, which is, they have, like, seeds sourced from all, countries all over the world that have a, This [00:45:00] squash is the best squash, you know?

[00:45:02] Black footsie.

[00:45:03] Chris: He's got his own proper composting

[00:45:05] Laurel: and everything, you know? composted. We have... We have raised beds, we have regular beds, we shishito the heck out of the place.

[00:45:17] Chris: But you taught him to surf. When you met him then. He was a runner. He was a runner. Yeah. Did you go, I have to tell you something about myself? Cause I feel like that is like a thing with surfing and when you meet someone it's like, so there's this other. There's this other entity in our, that's going to be in our relationship, I, I, I, for me it's a mistress.

[00:45:42] You know, my wife calls it the mistress. Yeah. Yeah. You know.

[00:45:46] Laurel: Yes. Well, back then, the crazy thing is I had this 87 Grand Prix hooptie dooptie. Nice. Yes. And with racks on top. Um, and so he would be running at the beach and he'd see. [00:46:00] My car with the board like but when before we dated and he then he'd see me at this coffee shop And so we kind of started going and and I was so like On fire for surfing like I couldn't just come in the coffee shop and sit I'd have to come in the coffee shop Look, I just got this underwater camera And he's sitting over the side just being quite like look You know

[00:46:26] next thing I know he's sitting on the couch and you know talking to me and and then I was going to Costa Rica and you know, he called me for the first time. When you get back from Costa Rica, let's do something.

[00:46:40] Chris: Okay And and then and then he supported your surfing which clearly you know you guys have Uh, a second home in Puerto Rico.

[00:46:50] So,

[00:46:52] Laurel: well, he fell in love with Puerto Rico too. That's a wee honeymoon there. I went there with the film festival the first year [00:47:00] in 2007 or six. And, um, and we went every year and the people of that little Island are the kindest, just nice people. Beautiful. It's a beautiful place, but you just, there's just, we don't have that vibe here.

[00:47:16] Yeah.

[00:47:18] Chris: Well, definitely not in New

[00:47:19] Laurel: York, I'll tell you that. No, and even Wilmington, which has a really nice vibe. And Wrightsville Beach has a great vibe. There is something special. I don't know, there's like a cloud that lifts when you get there, and you're just like, Oh, I can, you know, you feel like there's more space.

[00:47:35] It's just, I don't know what it is, but it's just, we were addicted to it. And we would go every year, and each little trip would get a little bit longer, and then we started dreaming. Like, what would that look like? How could we do this? Fiona the dog didn't fit in, but you know, I know she's going to eventually get to go to Puerto Rico.

[00:47:55] How,

[00:47:57] Chris: now you, you've left your, your, [00:48:00] your main day job too, correct?

[00:48:02] Laurel: And that is because of

[00:48:03] Chris: Don. So tell, can you tell our listeners first what you did? And then, you know, what was the impetus to leave that?

[00:48:11] Laurel: Okay. So I had already, already planned like. The long term plan of... The escape. Yes. The escape hatch was in...

[00:48:20] We were working the plan. Wheels were in motion. Yes. Thank you. And, um, so my plan was finish the book, market the book. Hopefully the book will start selling and then quit the job. But we came back from one of our vacations from Puerto Rico and like the boss had changed, the boss boss had changed, the clinical supervisor had changed.

[00:48:43] It was... And it was my, I'd been there 11 years where I made my own schedule. Everything been, I mean, it was wonderful. I was employee of the month, you know, like everything was golden. And I came back to everything was terrible. And [00:49:00] so after a couple of months, Don is like, I think it's time for you to quit.

[00:49:04] And I'm like, just having that permission to quit. I was like, Oh no, I can go along. You know, I can quit, but I don't have to. I'm going to make it to our next vacation. And then by the end of the summer. I couldn't sleep. It was very toxic and it was very, um, bad for anyone's mental health and so I wasn't the only one that quit, but like a whole team quit and now they've all gotten rid of those people, but I mean, I just think, wow, I thought I was going to miss it more.

[00:49:34] Mm hmm. And I really didn't. And, um, my husband, Don, was, bless his heart, but he was like, we can live off my income. And, you know, he doesn't have a great income, but we have worked long and hard to pay off some of, all the debt, or any, we didn't. You, you,

[00:49:53] Chris: you were telling me on the ride in, you guys went debt free.

[00:49:56] Which is incredible.

[00:49:57] Laurel: We made a jingle. Debt free in[00:50:00]

[00:50:02] Chris: 2023. Debt free 2023. Debt free 2023.

[00:50:06] Laurel: That's a better jingle. So, yeah, so like, you know, 12 or 13 years ago, we put together a budget that was a plan to do that. And then 2023 was just so far off. We were like, yeah, yeah, you know, and we mapped it out what it would look like. And then, As things often happen when you're working a little plan like that, there's a windfall here and there that you're like, Oh, well, we'll just put that towards it because you already had that plan.

[00:50:35] And so we had done that. Wow. Yeah. And so then when I could quit my job and then we could live off his income and me work this little, little side project. This, this

[00:50:48] Chris: hustle now. Yeah. How, how do you feel like it's been going now and how do you feel about the prospects of it?

[00:50:56] Laurel: Well, I'll I am pleasantly surprised and most [00:51:00] self published authors Really their books generally maybe sell 250 books in the lifetime of that book.

[00:51:08] Yeah And because of my book being, you know, I ended up choosing to do a self publishing route. Um, well, I can't say that because I did get rejected over and over again. But, but,

[00:51:21] Chris: I didn't do I chose.

[00:51:24] Laurel: I'm so thankful that I was forced to self publish. Because just the different genres that It encompass it, you know, like there wasn't really something.

[00:51:34] And so since there wasn't a big genre of women's surf material, um, it was hard to get somebody to catch that vibe. And, um, but, well, right now I've been taken off the, you know, the creative hat and I've put on this marketing hat, which is tough and, um, but I have, so my goal was 250 by the end of the year.

[00:51:59] [00:52:00] So now. I've long passed that and my goal is a thousand by the end of the year. Wow. So, I'm not, you know, going to be, you know, a millionaire or anything because you don't make that much, but my goal is keep the sales going, finish the next book, surprise and wow my next readers with the next thing, and um, build from there.

[00:52:22] Chris: Would you ever, now that it's been published though, still shop it around, potentially, to

[00:52:29] Laurel: anyone? I don't know. I mean, I'll, oh, yes, I will shop around an option to make this film. Yeah, oh,

[00:52:37] Chris: there we go. Now

[00:52:38] Laurel: we're talking. Because I already saw it as a film. And I've already gone in my mind to the next place, like, so it's a film, and then it's an amusement park ride.

[00:52:52] I

[00:52:58] Chris: love, I love [00:53:00] the Dreaming Big, I think it works. You wear it well. Thank you. Thank you. Now let's talk about your post surf podcast, you know, because it's it's great. I mean, what I love about it. Is that your guests and the topics you cover are so far from the surfing mainstream, you know, but are probably way more relevant to the everyday surfer and probably way more useful than an interview with Mick Fanning or some other professional surfer, you know, um, How did the podcast come about and and you know What was your original intention for it?

[00:53:43] And what has it evolved into because I found like this podcast when we started swell season was one thing and it yours Is blown

[00:53:50] Laurel: up. Yeah,

[00:53:52] Chris: I don't know about blowing up, but it's just evolved, you know, it's evolved into things, you know I mean I wasn't expecting I know

[00:53:57] Laurel: your listeners must know that we are [00:54:00] sitting in the Rockefeller Center and Joseph behind me, this producer guy, he was showing me this handsome producer, handsome, very handsome.

[00:54:09] Don't not kidding Don, but, um, this used to be a newsstand and I mean, it is cool. It's very antique. Everything's just beautiful in here. So I'm feeling like a New York times bestseller just sitting in your studio.

[00:54:25] Chris: You're a Swell, Swell Season Times bestseller.

[00:54:28] Laurel: Yeah, yeah. Next best thing. What was the question?

[00:54:33] Oh, yeah.

[00:54:34] Chris: Okay. How did the podcast come about and how has it evolved over time from when you started and your original intention and to what it is now?

[00:54:43] Laurel: Okay. I don't know that it's changed all that much. So post session podcast was, um. So, a friend of mine, Ashley, we both went to the same church at the time, and we were having coffee, and she's a freediver, a world record holding freediver.

[00:54:59] Wow. [00:55:00] Yeah, she's amazing. She would, like, break a record for depth, or a monofin, or whatever, and then have a child. And then somebody'd break her record and then she'd come back a year later and break another record. Then she'd have another kid and then the same thing happened again, but they just have to know but um She is an amazing freediver and So we always talk and she's like I want to learn to surf and she's like, you know I think we should do a podcast just over coffee.

[00:55:29] Yeah, and I was like, yeah, and we were both like Microphones. Yeah. And so within a week, because of her kind husband who gathered equipment, we were sitting down to record. Wow. And we just came up with the structure and we've stuck with it and we really haven't, we really haven't changed anything. We, I would eventually like to have a sponsor too, but you know,

[00:55:53] Chris: sponsors, if you're listening,

[00:55:56] Laurel: yes.

[00:55:56] If you'd like to support us. Surfer and free diver in [00:56:00] all our trips. No, why not? We say post session podcast has the stoke of a surf session and the wise guidance of an ocean voyager. Yeah. Yeah. And Ashley and her family actually used to sail off for, um, the winters. So, and live with two kids, two young kids on a sailboat on a trimaran.

[00:56:24] Yeah, holy

[00:56:25] Chris: moly and and she's still married amazing. Yes Yeah, yeah that that's something that could make or break very easily you could either make it like phenomenal relationship Or it could just be like I mean, it's a

[00:56:50] It's interesting because it's like it's obviously it's it's somewhat local a lot of your your your your your Guests are local which is basically what [00:57:00] what we do here as well, and I find it interesting how more and more of Shows like ours have popped up that service the local community,

[00:57:10] Laurel: which I think is cool I mean, it's nice to have a kind of well known guests and we've had a few we've had Kostia.

[00:57:15] Yeah curvy surf girl Oh, yeah, CJ. Hob good. Ah, mr.

[00:57:19] Chris: Hobbledy. Good. How about you? I've had him on. He's a lovely folk Oh

[00:57:23] Laurel: my gosh, I was so mad because Ashley and Wren were diving doing a dive trip in Florida. Mm hmm. They run into him. No And I'm stuck in North Carolina, so they're sitting down with CJ, and they don't, well, Wren does surf, and Ashley surfs a little bit.

[00:57:39] I'm the surfer. Yeah. You know, so I was like, oh my god. But anyway, so, but mainly, yes, we interview our lifeguards, um, just cool people that are around our town. I

[00:57:51] Chris: just think it's like, um, It's a community service though. I look at it as almost like, especially when, um, you know, a [00:58:00] lot of local newspapers and everything have disappeared.

[00:58:03] I feel like the idea of a local podcast is a great way for, to get local news out and information to people and also. Uh, cover local topics, but also have the local people and, and really highlight what's happening in your community and help bring it closer together.

[00:58:22] Laurel: I like that. Yeah. That's cool. I, I think I need a little mind shift.

[00:58:27] That was helpful for me to, you know, we only, we haven't, normally we were every other week and we've kind of gone to once a month, but, you know, think of and thinking of it more as a public service. Yeah. That's a good shift that that appreciate

[00:58:43] Chris: that that was for me a shift, you know especially like it shifted kind of during kovat where I was like I could do something here.

[00:58:52] I can interview local doctors, nurses, people on the front lines, firemen, uh, just to get [00:59:00] their, their reports on what's happening and get a, you know, a little bit more perspective. Uh, and then it, you know, it's evolved into everything from social causes to whatever, you know, is happening locally too. Uh, things on like, you know, they wanted to put a liquid national gas line on, or we just did a mm-hmm.

[00:59:20] thing on, uh, you know, the whales and the mortality events that are happening. You know, so there's a lot of things to, to be able to cover, and I think the podcast is a great medium for that. Mm-hmm. , uh, because it's obviously very digestible, but also very free, very affordable. Mm-hmm. , uh, you know, and, and I think it, um, See, it adds a sense of duty to what you're doing.

[00:59:43] Yeah, I like that. Yeah, so I, I, I, I, I,

[00:59:45] Laurel: I I'm gonna borrow it,

[00:59:46] Chris: I'm gonna take that with me. You should, I mean because that's, when I see yours, that's what I kinda see. You know, I see, like, Kindred Spirit podcasts almost. Mm. You know, which I love. Yeah. Oh. [01:00:00] So, Laurel, where can our listeners buy this book? And all your other freakin awesome content.

[01:00:08] Because on your website it is awesome. There is so much there to go and look at.

[01:00:13] Laurel: Oh, thank you. Yeah. Zach, my website designer. Oh, Zach. Um, so, yeah, you can go to my website, laurelscynic. com. And, uh, but foam, um, is, I don't have it available. Through my, I mean you can go to my website and hit buy the book, but it'll take you to if you want Barnes Noble or Amazon or whatever.

[01:00:39] I thought you weren't allowed on Amazon anymore. I gotta tell you, I hate to tell your audience this story, but I got banned from Amazon with a surf journal. And I somehow broke terms and conditions and they pulled me, not only was I banned forever, They kept my royalties that were like 10, but I was like, oh [01:01:00] dear.

[01:01:01] Chris: And now it's gone. And no more Amazon Prime

[01:01:03] Laurel: TV for you. Oh no, so yeah, no, I could still buy stuff from them. I just couldn't sell stuff. No, no, no. Except for your book now. Right, right, no. Yes, thank you. But they did let me back. And I still don't. And so, so then I get an email like months later. Like, well, we're gonna let you come back.

[01:01:21] Just don't ever do it again. And I'm like. What did I do? They never told me what I did. But it was in time for a phone to come out, so thank God. They are the biggest bookstore in the world now, so. And

[01:01:37] Chris: your Instagram, where can they follow you there?

[01:01:40] Laurel: And

[01:01:43] Chris: for all our listeners.

[01:01:44] Laurel: It's kind of boring. I know I need to, you

[01:01:45] Chris: know. No, it's fine. That's appropriate. It's professional, too.

[01:01:49] Laurel: Ugh.

[01:01:52] Chris: Um. And for all our listeners, you can go check out the Women's Surf Film Festival, which is happening now in Rockaway, [01:02:00] but will be in California when this episode airs. So if you are in Ventura, go check it out. Uh, you know, Davina's worked really hard on expanding this festival. It's going to be awesome.

[01:02:12] And, uh, we, you have a panel tonight that you have to get to. Uh, so it's going to be really exciting. And, um, listeners go get this book. I'm working my way through it now. I promise it'll be done, but from what I've read so far It's pretty awesome, and it's very captivating and starts out great

[01:02:33] Laurel: I'll take that and you can almost write an Amazon review right there.

[01:02:36] Chris: I'm gonna write the Amazon review and listeners don't forget to follow at swell season surf radio and you can go to our website www. swellseasonsurfradio. com Got to give a quick shout out to Joe, our engineer here, and the wonderful people at Rockefeller Centers, and the Newsstand Studio for hosting us.

[01:02:59] And, uh, [01:03:00] we'll all check you down the line soon.

[01:03:02]Laurel:Thank you. Thank y