[00:01:15] Tyler: Hello, and welcome to the Swell Season Surf Podcast. I'm your host, Tyler Brewer. Erin Meza Ashley, also known as Worm, came to surfing later in life. It wasn't until college that she began her love affair with riding waves. Her passion and dedication to surfing made her a quick study and eventually her smooth style and creative approach brought her to the forefront of modern logging.

[00:01:46] Tyler: She has a unique style both in and out of the water and Aaron prefers riding predominantly heavy single finned long boards. In addition to her exceptional surfing, Erin has a love for music, [00:02:00] playing saxophone in a band called Go Go 13, and a penchant for making desserts, specializing in gelato. We're gonna have to go deep and scoop into that one.

[00:02:12] Tyler: Her love of surfing, music, and dessert making has shaped her life and led her on a unique and creative path. Erin is dedicated to pushing the boundaries of her abilities, whether in the water or on stage with her band. They are someone who has garnered the respect of the logging surf community that is usually only awarded to a handful of characters.

[00:02:38] Tyler: You ask most surfers who log up and down Southern California, and they'll tell you the same. Worm is a legend. It is also her pursuits outside of surfing, pastry chef wizard, avid musician, and perpetual activist for social justice that set her apart from the rest. You Recently, she made [00:03:00] headlines when she stepped down as the head judge for the prestigious Mexi Logfest over their trans policy, a move that showed her compassion, empathy, and willingness to stand up for what she believes in.

[00:03:14] Tyler: And she is here, in New York, hanging out, going to see plays, and having a great old time. And I am so stoked to have Erin Meza Ashley, aka Worm, to the Swell Season Surf Podcast. Erin, welcome to the show.

[00:03:28] Erin: Yeah, thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. Super

[00:03:31] Tyler: stoked.

[00:03:32] Erin: Great intro. I like how you used the term characters to describe, uh, The longboarding community.

[00:03:37] Erin: Uh, yeah. That's probably accurate.

[00:03:39] Tyler: They are, you know. You're all, everyone in that, that side of the surfing universe is, is kind of a character or I think if you stand out, you kind of are, have some characteristics that make you stand out. And if

[00:03:53] Erin: we hang out there too long, we become a caricature for sure of our former selves.

[00:03:59] Tyler: First, [00:04:00] um, I'm, What brings you to NYC? I was curious.

[00:04:03] Erin: Uh, so I came to NYC because, uh, my sister and I wanted to see this play, Old O'Mary. Um, it's by Cola Scola, and we were very concerned that it was going to finish its run.

[00:04:14] Tyler: Ooh. And

[00:04:14] Erin: we had to, we were like We're coming out because we can't miss this run of like this play because what if they don't show it again

[00:04:23] Tyler: So the big question is then like how are you enjoying your pies?

[00:04:26] Tyler: You got my list of pizza places and have you? Visited any of them yet?

[00:04:31] Erin: Um Haven't, well we did, we did Bleecker Street, because we were like in the area. We haven't gotten too far into it. We've been doing a lot of like ramen, to be totally honest. We're on a ramen program.

[00:04:42] Tyler: Oh, okay. I feel like every

[00:04:43] Erin: time I come out here, I'm on like, somebody will be like, let's do this, and then we kind of end up just following the trend of like eating at a million of the exact same places.

[00:04:50] Tyler: Do you come to New York often?

[00:04:52] Erin: Probably more than most people.

[00:04:54] Tyler: Really? Yeah,

[00:04:55] Erin: I do. Secretly come.

[00:04:56] Tyler: Just, just for the I don't

[00:04:57] Erin: come for surfing or any I mean, I love the [00:05:00] surfing out here, actually. But, um, cause like the Rockaways definitely feels like surfing at home.

[00:05:04] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:05:04] Erin: And so, so there's something like really cool about that.

[00:05:06] Erin: And I love that it's like It's a little bit far, but like right in the city,

[00:05:10] Tyler: but like

[00:05:10] Erin: I come fairly regularly and I'm just on like my own little program when I'm out here.

[00:05:15] Tyler: That's awesome. So I wanted to start with a very controversial question and it might put you in the hot seat with the surf world. I already

[00:05:24] Erin: put myself in that hot seat.

[00:05:26] Erin: Alright,

[00:05:27] Tyler: progressive logging versus classical logging. Which do you prefer?

[00:05:31] Erin: Oh, I don't think, I don't know. You'd have to watch a video and just tell me what I would prefer. Um, I don't care. I think it's, I think there's good. I mean, I know that people complain about a lot of the different, um, versions of longboarding.

[00:05:46] Erin: But if it's good, it's good. If it's bad, it's bad. And the style you're doing isn't the thing that's making it bad. It's kind of You surfing, it's like you doing a bad version of it, and I think people forget to take that into [00:06:00] account because you can watch Taylor I mean, I just was at the Oceanside Coalition contest and Taylor Jensen like just did this like wraparound Turn that hit like, you know Twelve o'clock on one of the turns and like came down on a wave that had probably so little juice And was maybe two feet, and I'll be honest, it was beautiful to watch.

[00:06:20] Tyler: And, and he's like six foot four or three. He's six foot four,

[00:06:23] Erin: he's on a, I think he's on a fairly light board too. Firewires. Yeah, I think he's riding really buoyant like firewires. And um, he just crushed some of those turns. And so it's like, it's not that it's progressive that makes it bad, it's that it was bad that made it bad.

[00:06:40] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:06:40] Erin: So.

[00:06:41] Tyler: It's funny, like I feel like progressive, progressive surfing or, or. Uh, hot dog, longboarding maybe, what you want to, I don't know what you'd call it. Whatever you're calling, whatever. Is actually having a bit of a moment, I think, like, I don't know, like, I've been watching Taylor Jensen, Phil [00:07:00] Rojman, and I'm like, kind of enjoy it, like, I, Pretty

[00:07:03] Erin: sick.

[00:07:04] Erin: I mean, those, those are both, I think, like, 6'1 Yeah. Yeah. So, pretty sick. On a personal level. And I'm a big guy too, so. Yeah, I'm never gonna, I might never get to that program, so it's just like I'm not, not tripping on not being it.

[00:07:15] Tyler: Well, you, you have a very classical style. You have a very, like, listeners, like, Her surfing is absolutely exquisite.

[00:07:24] Tyler: It's a, like, it's an economy of movement that you have that is absolutely beautiful. And, obviously, it's a bit of a throwback to a certain time. And, I was reading and researching for you, like, that you really gravitated towards, like, the 1960s kind of gidget, beach bucket lingo. Yeah, I did. I think I've said that in an interview.

[00:07:44] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:07:45] Erin: The thing, I mean, people will nay say it, um, but for me, it sounds dumb, but Gidget was on like, Nick at Night, I think it was. But like, in the daytime when we'd come home from school, so we'd watch Gidget and eat like, you know, my sister and I would eat like baked potatoes the most. [00:08:00] And um, And we would just watch that show every day.

[00:08:03] Erin: And so it's like, it's a really cool show. It's shows like how fun surfing is and how carefree it can be and how chill and how everybody just wants to be at the beach and like, have a, you know, cool time. And so it was like, when I finally got the opportunity to do it, that's the vibe I wanted to like, you know, embody.

[00:08:21] Erin: And so when I was like looking into it, I just kind of was watching like older videos and older, um, You know, surfers, like a lot of, like, Phil Edwards and, and that kind, Johnny Fain videos and, like, weird, trying to find random old Mickey Dora things until I read a bit more about him and kind of got over him.

[00:08:40] Erin: But, um, that is a controversial stance. But, um, Well,

[00:08:44] Tyler: let me ask then, like, Can you separate the surfer from the surfing, much like can you separate the art from the artist?

[00:08:51] Erin: I think you can, to an extent. There should be, I hope, I hope with everybody, there are lines that we have in our ethics and our morality [00:09:00] and our values that we feel like people ought not to cross.

[00:09:04] Tyler: Right. And

[00:09:04] Erin: I do think that if people cross them, You ought to keep that line in place. Yeah. Otherwise, what was the point of it?

[00:09:11] Tyler: Yeah, yeah. It's interesting, like, for me, I always felt like, it's a weird thing, like, uh, I'm like, oh, Woody Allen movies, you know? It's like, fuck, like, I really enjoyed the movies, but, supporting him is, you know, Problematic.

[00:09:28] Tyler: And it's like, but, but then is it okay to take it away from the other actors and the other people who were involved in that project? Right? Like, or a band, right? Like, and maybe the lead singers did something really disgusting, but then it's like, fuck, but what about the other band members? Or what about the other people?

[00:09:44] Tyler: They've, you know, You know, that have had a hand in making that music.

[00:09:49] Erin: Yeah, and I understand that, and it's real wild because it's like so all encompassing when you like, think about it. But I do think that like, um, we all have our roles to play, and we all have um, our lines that we [00:10:00] decide to choose. And it's not like I think Less of people as, as a person, I just, I just can't participate in certain activities and things and engage with certain, you know, um, things if people do certain activities or say things or act a certain way, you know, that I find to be over my, over my line.

[00:10:20] Erin: You know,

[00:10:20] Tyler: for me, I feel like it's a financial aspect, like if I'm contributing to that person's bottom line by admiring it, then that's that's where I cross the line. I'm like, I don't want to contribute to this person. Yeah. So door is dead. So maybe we can appreciate His surfing at least, and not the stories about him.

[00:10:40] Erin: Yeah.

[00:10:41] Tyler: That's my, that's my, uh, mental gymnastics. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's always,

[00:10:46] Erin: it's rough because his surfing was great, his surfing was great. But it's like, I don't think we should romanticize, like, the stories and act like being like a, I wouldn't, I think sometimes we can play him being a bad boy with just being kind [00:11:00] of, are we allowed to curse?

[00:11:00] Erin: Yeah. Fuck, shit, cock, balls, whatever. Yeah, he was, he was a bit of a shit human. Yeah. And that might be a hard line, and people can, like, argue with me against it, but, like, I I don't know. I, I think wearing, like, Nazi memorabilia just to, like, bum out people is, is a line that I prefer not to cross.

[00:11:20] Tyler: The, the credit card fraud was more of my line.

[00:11:23] Tyler: It's kind of, you know, there's like,

[00:11:24] Erin: yeah, it's that. It's just like, are we being bad boys and it's funny? Or are we just being really shitty humans?

[00:11:30] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:11:31] Erin: And, um, you can take that wherever you want to take it and deal with it however you want to deal with it. But, like, you know.

[00:11:36] Tyler: Do you Then, like, going back to this classical style, kind of going back here, I'm curious in, like, what, what draws you to that aesthetic and that style of surfing?

[00:11:48] Tyler: Like, what is it to you that, that makes it so appealing?

[00:11:52] Erin: I think, uh, there's an economy to it. And I think I've always described my surfing style as, like, maybe not like, um, [00:12:00] athletic, but I'm like a video kid. generation type person. So like, rather than learning the athleticism of like longboarding, I kind of learned all the cheat codes.

[00:12:09] Erin: So I knew that if you like stood here, the board would pivot like that. So then I wouldn't have to learn how to like overpower a board on a turn or push it too hard or do any of the work. I just learned how to like push it in the right spot.

[00:12:21] Tyler: Well, that's the thing about surfing that I always find interesting is that It doesn't matter how big or small or strong you are.

[00:12:29] Tyler: It's all to me, like the technique is the most important aspect, you know, to surfing and it's really all about leverage more than anything. And being able to, you know, Turn a board, but you do it in the right way. You know if you you know, like Someone once explained to me like when you swing with a katana right like in kung fu or martial arts You're you're kind of you're not using force.

[00:12:55] Tyler: You're actually pulling on the bottom and pushing in the front You're using different [00:13:00] momentum and different energy. Yeah Yeah, and I think

[00:13:02] Erin: it's using what the tools you have and making them work for you rather than trying to force things In a way that's like less natural.

[00:13:11] Tyler: I guess in it like this kind of like we're jumping ahead of what I wanted to discuss but like I think it kind of leads into though the the conversation that that you when you step down from the Mexi logjam logfest yeah, and it was about their trans policy and One, I was hoping you might be able to explain to our listeners what had actually happened.

[00:13:36] Tyler: And then I wanted to discuss like that, that whole idea of like, can trans surf in women's and or men's or whatever that is. You know, because I think a lot of people think it's this whole muscular thing, and I feel like it's so much more. It's technique, it's not muscle, and that's why you almost can't really even, the gender thing isn't as much of an issue to me, [00:14:00] but that's

[00:14:00] Erin: Yeah.

[00:14:02] Erin: I just front loaded a lot, sorry. That was a long, long parted question, many parted question. Um, okay, so I'll start with, so they did, Mexiloft has had, uh, decided on a policy that was quite a bit controversial. And I will say that they have technically, um, changed their policy, reversed it and changed it.

[00:14:21] Erin: And so they, um, and I do appreciate them doing that. And I do, uh, I love all the people who are part of it. Um, it's great people.

[00:14:30] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:14:30] Erin: Um, great people working behind the scenes. Um, the things they're doing for the Longboard community in Mexico and the things they're doing for the Longboard community as a whole in the world is like, And the um, platform they give people to like, especially people who are trying to learn where they want to be in like the surfing community, it gives them such a great forum to like interact with other people who people they look up to people that just live somewhere else that they actually might be their peers.

[00:14:59] Erin: [00:15:00] Like there's this great opportunity for everybody to intermingle with each other and, and become friends, you know, and learn and grow from it. All of it. And so, like, the Mexilogfest brings so much to the table, and I, and I, I can't I can't praise them enough for everything they've done, and it made the decision.

[00:15:16] Erin: I think people feel like I was being maybe a bit flippant or something, but like it made the decision to like step back from it a really hard one because it, well, first of all, like impacted me financially. It impacted me in the way that like, I'm actually friends with all these people, you know, I consider a lot of them to be brothers and sisters.

[00:15:35] Erin: And so it's not like I was just telling somebody on the internet that I didn't agree with them.

[00:15:39] Tyler: Yeah. Yeah. No, you were involved. You were involved. Yeah.

[00:15:42] Erin: This is my real life, and it had implications in my actual real life, and, and how other people interact with me, and then people who disagreed with me, uh, how they interacted with me, who weren't a part of, like, the Mexilogfest as well, and so, like, I have nothing but love for those people, [00:16:00] but when they had posted, um, something on their Instagram about including people, they made some of the words they used and some of the language used was, um, very specifically, um, meant to be derogatory towards trans, trans folks.

[00:16:16] Erin: And it felt, um, a bit intentional in the sense that it's not the same wording that they've used in previous years and it seemed real directed and It felt like the the point was to do harm. Yeah now I don't know the intentions of the person who posted that caption but when it was read it felt like the intention was to do harm and to make people feel ostracized and not welcome and I Uh, I try, I might fail, but I try my best to, um, live a life in which, uh, people are, are welcome and I want people to feel more welcome in, not just my immediate community, but the community as a whole.

[00:16:53] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:16:53] Erin: And I, I want to do things that push that. Platform forward and I don't want to do things [00:17:00] that have us gatekeeping each other,

[00:17:01] Tyler: right?

[00:17:02] Erin: Um, I think we can only learn and grow from everything and I think we do a better job of it when we're all working Together and lifting each other up and that's how I live the rest of my life

[00:17:12] Tyler: Yeah,

[00:17:12] Erin: and so that's how I want to live my surfing life as well

[00:17:15] Tyler: It's it's it's interesting because the maxi log fest seem like this huge inclusive thing, you know, and that that one little that not one little thing, but that one thing felt like It feels

[00:17:29] Erin: like such a little thing cuz it's such a small part to like upturn.

[00:17:34] Erin: Yeah so much of it and it's such a I mean it feels flippant to say it, but it's such a bummer, you know Yeah,

[00:17:41] Tyler: well, it's like to me when I see that language It feels like, to me, like when someone says, um, you know, born male, only born male, you know, or whatever you were born in. Which I get,

[00:17:55] Erin: but I also, I also feel like that language is designed to be intentionally [00:18:00]hurtful.

[00:18:00] Tyler: Exactly.

[00:18:00] Erin: There's ways we can describe people in which we don't hurt their feelings. Exactly. If that's what we want to do, if we want to be really descriptive when describing other people, we can do that and we can also manage to not be awful.

[00:18:12] Tyler: Well, it takes so little. To be nice and to be respectful and thoughtful, you know, it doesn't take much like For for them it just you know you just didn't need to say that it was just something that didn't need to be said also Because it's not yeah, I

[00:18:28] Erin: felt like it didn't need to be said and I understand people's stances on yeah you know People's roles in in in surfing and surfing context and I can understand apprehension and everything else, but that said Me stepping back wasn't about Actually the rules and the, that, any of that stuff.

[00:18:48] Erin: It was about the language that was being used to intentionally hurt other people. Absolutely. And it was that simple for me. And it sucked. You know, it bummed me out a lot because, um, [00:19:00] because I felt like people were aligned with the, like, the love that I share for the community and other humans. And it was, uh, it was disheartening to see that we weren't maybe as like, uh, on the same page as I thought we were previously.

[00:19:15] Tyler: Do you, did, um, well one, like, what, what surprised you about the response then, to it, if you don't mind? Like, I hope you don't mind, like, cause it's just, like, I, I, I was, I was planning on talking about this later in the episode, but we just kind of flowed. It'll work

[00:19:32] Erin: out nice, because like if people don't want to, they'll know right where I stand right now, and they don't have to waste 45 minutes listening to me, and then being bummed if they're not into any of this.

[00:19:43] Erin: They're like, we can turn it off in the first 15 minutes, and that's easy. That might, if I'm being honest, a lot of, um, A lot of the responses didn't surprise me, and I don't know if that's worse or better, but I [00:20:00] wasn't su I knew going into it, I knew the second I posted my post, it wasn't gonna be received maybe as well as I would hope for it to be received, you know?

[00:20:10] Erin: And I tried to put together a post that was, you know, um, thoughtful and, um, you know, um, Halfway articulate and and maybe coming from a place where it's just like look. I love this community I just can't participate in this way, you know, because I think that I've Spent a lot of my life saying I have these values and that I stand up for Hopefully everybody and I can't when push comes to shove like not stand up for everybody just because it uh It's easier not to you know Have you always been like that?

[00:20:43] Tyler: Have you always felt like that? You have to ask my

[00:20:44] Erin: parents.

[00:20:47] Tyler: Mom, dad?

[00:20:49] Erin: Probably, probably, you know what I was always like, oh, maybe not But then I was like reminiscing with a friend about like things we used to do when we were younger and I was like Oh, yeah I remember like because you're talking about earlier [00:21:00] how we I was like, I'd like being back on my like ska bullshit And it was just like at one point I was And I told him and I was like, by working, I meant volunteering at this like, anarchist, um, venue collective where we would make food.

[00:21:16] Erin: And so we'd make food for the community and hand out like mutual aid style. And that's how it would pay for going to concerts at this like venue. And so I was like, so maybe I have always been on whatever program I've been on, you know.

[00:21:31] Tyler: Do you have like a strong sense of fairness, would you say? Like

[00:21:35] Erin: I like to think I do, and I like to think that I try, and I try and like, uh, practice it in reality.

[00:21:43] Tyler: It surprised me, well it didn't surprise me, but it's just, I find it amazing how many men want to rush to defend women surfing when it comes to trans surfing, but When it comes to equal money or equal opportunity or [00:22:00] any of those things there any

[00:22:01] Erin: other form of equality

[00:22:03] Tyler: Yeah, it's always been kind of missing

[00:22:06] Erin: I'd appreciate them rushing to the forefront as well.

[00:22:08] Erin: Yeah, totally. Well, I would maybe I would have never had to become like a You know had a job I would have never had to have a job if, uh, people have come forth and, like, tried to help us with money. Because I know that surfing's never paid for anything in my life.

[00:22:23] Tyler: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you, you came to surfing late.

[00:22:27] Tyler: Yeah. You know, relatively late, right? In college. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:22:30] Erin: For sure.

[00:22:31] Tyler: How did that begin, then? Oh, some,

[00:22:33] Erin: some dude.

[00:22:34] Tyler: Some dude, did you just say? Some

[00:22:36] Erin: dude, like, was like, hey, you wanna go surfing? And then I was like, for sure. I was like, with you? Yeah. And so then we went, and we surfed, and it was awful. Um, but there was like,

[00:22:48] Tyler: Did they surf as well?

[00:22:49] Tyler: They surfed well. Yeah, they were a surfer,

[00:22:50] Erin: and I was like, cool, that's an activity we'll both do. Cause I, too, am a surfer now. And I wasn't, and I was awful at it. But it was like, I don't know because like for some people that they'll [00:23:00] have that first experience and this will happen with anything Yeah, um and they'll have it and they'll be like, oh this isn't for me and then but for me It just clicked and I was like, there's something about this that I want to get better at and I want to do more of.

[00:23:12] Erin: And so like it just like kind of like turned on like a button in my head that forced me to like, you know, abandon everything else. Did you become, you

[00:23:20] Tyler: became obsessive?

[00:23:22] Erin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[00:23:24] Tyler: Like

[00:23:25] Erin: I have an obsessive personality anyway, so it's not it wasn't that weird

[00:23:31] Tyler: So when you came to your parents like I'm gonna be a surfer No,

[00:23:35] Erin: and my parents will say that I casually have I like I'll have these obsessions that I've had my whole life And I'll just pick up new obsessions, but like I'm real nonchalant with it So they could never tell if I'm serious about something or not like my brother when we were younger Also, like all my All my siblings played an instrument, and my brother played flute, and so, and he took it very seriously, because he's a very serious guy.

[00:23:57] Erin: And so they took him, and they sent him [00:24:00] to like Arrowhead music camp in the summer so he could get better, and they paid for all these things. And then with me, they were like, we don't even know if she can read music.

[00:24:09] Tyler: And you were like, but you were also Cause I would

[00:24:11] Erin: just, when it was my turn to practice, like, cause we'd have to practice our instruments every day, I would just turn on the radio and just learn how to play along.

[00:24:19] Erin: Play my saxophone to whatever songs were on the radio, you know,

[00:24:23] Tyler: wow.

[00:24:24] Erin: So you would just be, I don't know, listening to like, keep them separated or something. And I would just be playing that shit on saxophone, like, like the biggest fucking nerd on earth, you know? And I'd be like, that counts as practice. And my parents were like, we don't care.

[00:24:36] Erin: Um, and then meanwhile, my brother is over there, like reading the sheet music for like Phantom of the Opera and stuff. And so it was like, there was two different people in the house, different personalities.

[00:24:49] Tyler: Man, your siblings, your other siblings, I feel for them, had to be caught in between, keep them separated and classical, you know, like getting kind [00:25:00] of, kind of head spun.

[00:25:01] Erin: Oh, probably. We're all like, like a little chaotic and a little well rounded as a result because all of us listen to different types of music. So we all, and we all listen to each other's music, so.

[00:25:11] Tyler: So what do you attribute to getting so good? Like. Pretty quickly, I would say, you know, like within a relatively short amount of time you started getting recognized for your surfing and I'm Curious like what's the secret?

[00:25:26] Erin: Honestly, I think I'm I think I'm fairly honest with myself and In, in the sense that like I'm really good at like acknowledging like things I'm good at, but I'm also equally good at acknowledging things that I'm failing at. And I think that ability to recognize that you might not be the best and you could take advice and you could learn new methods and other ways of doing things takes you the farthest that you can go in everything.

[00:25:51] Erin: And I've noticed that in every, everything I've done is like me being willing to take criticism and understand that that has nothing to do with me and my value and [00:26:00] my inherent value. You know, worth as a human. It's just that maybe I'm doing something wrong. Um, and, and, you know, taking whatever criticism people give me and like turning that into like something that actually works for me.

[00:26:12] Erin: Like that is, that is the best skill I have. That's my actual skill. I think it's, it's not surfing. It's that I can, I can do that.

[00:26:20] Tyler: That you, you can go in knowing.

[00:26:23] Erin: I might not be the best.

[00:26:25] Tyler: Well, you know, it's funny is like, I feel like this is like a thing where those who are experts know. That there's so much more that they don't know the more, you know, the less, you know, and and I think having that mindset Um, is really helpful in everything that you do, you know, no matter how good you are, you know, the better you get, you realize, I'm actually not that good.

[00:26:48] Tyler: There's so much more actually to be discovered. And those who kind of suck at things actually think they're better than they are.

[00:26:55] Erin: Sometimes I do think it's like a harder hurdle to get over is like if you're not willing to [00:27:00] be honest with yourself in some way. It makes it, it makes your journey just longer than it needs to be, you know?

[00:27:06] Tyler: Was that always the case, like, since you can remember, or are there any incidences that helped you learn that process?

[00:27:14] Erin: Oh, I think constantly, I think working in a kitchen really helps, like, humble you in a way that, Um, I think we ought to be humbled, I guess, because I keep taking it. But, um, I think that in itself, because it was just like, I would, uh, you know, you, you, you're starting out and you try and pass off, like, desserts, and you'd be like, this is fine.

[00:27:34] Erin: You know, you throw, like, down a dollop of, like, creme fraiche, and you'd be like, that's fine. It's, like, a little soft, and it's melting, and it looks awful. And you'd be like, we could send that out, and then, like, somebody would see it, and they'd be like, They'd just send it right to the dish station and they'd be like, you can't send that out.

[00:27:48] Erin: And your mistake wasn't making that mess up. Your mistake was thinking that you could pass it off to somebody. And then they would explain that to me, that my mistake wasn't. That I didn't whip the cream enough. My [00:28:00] mistake was that I thought it was acceptable. You know?

[00:28:04] Tyler: How, how did you get into pastry? Uh, become a pastry chef?

[00:28:07] Tyler: I'm a yum junkie.

[00:28:08] Erin: I'm a professional yum junkie. I love sweets. Um. So you'll be going

[00:28:14] Tyler: to the donut shop around the corner here? Like, uh.

[00:28:18] Erin: Which, we went to Magnolia earlier, so.

[00:28:22] Tyler: Magnolia's okay, you know, the banana cream, you know, bread, bread pudding. That's what we had, people were like, you gotta

[00:28:26] Erin: do it. It's a lot, it's really sweet.

[00:28:28] Erin: But I get it, um, cause people, it's kind of Disneyland style, which is kind of cool. It's like, it's a method, and I like it.

[00:28:35] Tyler: There's a, the donut shop around the corner. What is that Joe? Dough. Dough, yeah. I'll try it. it's like, It's very thick, very over the top donuts, beautiful flavors for sure.

[00:28:46] Erin: I'll try them.

[00:28:47] Erin: Don't worry, I'll go over there. Oh, we'll go after.

[00:28:50] Tyler: Come on, we'll go after.

[00:28:51] Erin: I'm very into it. Yeah, no, I, um, I've always been into sweets, I think, and it was wild because I felt like, um, learning [00:29:00] howbeing in a kitchen and doing that actually It showed me some form of, like, restraint, so now I'm capable of, like, I don't have to eat, you know, as much sweets.

[00:29:10] Erin: I still eat them, but, like, I don't have to do as much as everybody else does.

[00:29:15] Tyler: Well, it's because you've, you've, you know, you've just eaten the whole bowl of cookie dough. So now you're like, okay, let's go. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I've

[00:29:22] Erin: had a job where like every morning and like I get there at like, you know, 6 30 or whatever and we'd have to spin gelato fresh and there was like, you know, 15 flavors and you taste every flavor.

[00:29:33] Erin: And so like by like 7 30, I've had like, you know, 15 little spoonfuls of like gelato and it's like, You learn real fast that like what you want and what you need are like two different things and turns out sometimes all you need is like one, one little spoonful.

[00:29:47] Tyler: That's right. Well, or 15 little spoonfuls.

[00:29:50] Tyler: You

[00:29:50] Erin: don't need 15.

[00:29:52] Tyler: Of different flavors, you know, you gotta taste them. Yeah, and you do that like five

[00:29:55] Erin: days a week.

[00:29:57] Tyler: Well, how did you get into it then? Like obviously you had a [00:30:00] sweet tooth, but was it like, I love dessert, I'm gonna be a pastry chef, or was there a moment that you were like I wish it

[00:30:07] Erin: was more thought out than that, but it was kind of that.

[00:30:09] Erin: I had like finished Um, school, I'd finished college at the time, and came back, and um, decided that's what I wanted to do, and my parents were like, okay, and then, um, Where'd you study? Like, cooking. Cooking. School hard knocks. Really? I went for, somebody told me that was, they were like, and it was maybe the best worst advice, they were like, You can go to school for cooking school and you'll learn how to do it and it'll give you every shortcut you need and or you can just go into a kitchen and they'll beat it into you the hard way how to do everything and you'll still get what you need but you will only become good if you are good.

[00:30:45] Tyler: Where did you start then? So I

[00:30:47] Erin: started I couldn't even tell you which kitchen I started it was some kitchen across from the Grove in LA and I worked with this guy Ryan and from there he got a job. at [00:31:00]Nancy Silverton's, like, Mozza up in L. A. And he got me a job. Because they were, they needed somebody, and he was like, hey, I worked with this person, um, which is how, I think you get a lot of jobs in cooking.

[00:31:11] Erin: I mean, I'm sure that's how you get a lot of jobs in a lot of Yeah,

[00:31:13] Tyler: it's all the, the, you know, your connections and friendships. You being good and like Yeah.

[00:31:17] Erin: And so he was like, oh yeah, she's a really great worker, um, you should give her a try. And I went over there, I had no qualifications, um, just like a really good attitude.

[00:31:25] Erin: And I went to work, I swear, for like six months and I was just like, every day I came to work, I was like, bro, they're gonna fire me today. But I also came to work going, I'mma make them fire me. So I was like, I would just like go to go and then I would just screw things up and just I mean there was one day where I tripped over like the gelato pasteurizer and spilled some and it had like the like chocolate sorbetto in it and I spilled so much chocolate and so much money on the ground.

[00:31:53] Erin: And I was just like, they're gonna, this is it, this is it. Um, this [00:32:00] is my last day at work.

[00:32:01] Tyler: How do you move past that? Like, how do you move past mistakes like that? You just gotta do it. You

[00:32:04] Erin: just gotta move past it. And you just, you just kind of put it on the other person's table. I was like, um, yes, I've made this huge mistake, as you can see.

[00:32:14] Erin: And if you want me gone, you're gonna have to say it. And so I just kept working and pretending like I didn't just make a massive mistake, you know?

[00:32:25] Tyler: It's like, I don't know, for me And I

[00:32:27] Erin: told him, I've actually, no, I'm actually, I will say this real quick. I will say that I am famous for saying, um, at that job I was famous for saying, Nobody's madder at me than I am at myself right now.

[00:32:37] Tyler: Well, I was, I was gonna ask, like, do you, like, I know when I screw up, like, I have this thing where I just beat this shit out of myself.

[00:32:45] Erin: Yeah, I probably, I probably took it way harder than, they were like, she's a bonehead, but what are you going to do? Yeah.

[00:32:50] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:32:51] Erin: You know?

[00:32:52] Tyler: When did you feel like you started to grasp, like, get a handle on it though, or feel like you're, you're becoming proficient?

[00:32:59] Erin: [00:33:00] It just kind of started making sense. I worked with this other guy, Adam, and the two of us were the only two in the pastry department in the evenings. And we got along really well. We had a lot of similar interests, and we were like, one of us would work the setting up station, and one of us would finish the plates.

[00:33:17] Erin: And so like, um, we just, it just started clicking, and it was just kind of working with him, and so we kind of like, worked off of each other's energy, and it just gave both of us the confidence to like, you know, do a good job, I guess.

[00:33:29] Tyler: Did, um, is it like the bear?

[00:33:33] Erin: I haven't seen the bear. Oh, you haven't seen it.

[00:33:36] Erin: No. Sorry. You know why? Because I'm at work. Yeah. I haven't seen the bear.

[00:33:40] Tyler: What do you think are like, parallels between that and like, your surfing then?

[00:33:46] Erin: Well, I think you have to, I think you have to be, like I said, I think you have to be real realistic with what you're doing. Um, I think you have to have an attitude in which you are comfortable with like, failing.

[00:33:56] Tyler: Mm hmm.

[00:33:57] Erin: And just knowing that that's a part of, you're going to fail. [00:34:00] Yeah. You just are. And, um, that's also fine. You just can't keep accepting it. As like, um, Or you can't just keep being like, hey, like, If you walk to the nose, it's fine that you don't make it. You know the very edge.

[00:34:13] Tyler: Yeah,

[00:34:14] Erin: but like the problem is is when you think the edge is Or you think like not hitting that the actual like edge of your board is Walking on them, you know being on the nose or whatever.

[00:34:25] Erin: Does that make sense? It's like you see those. What is it? It's good the nose Dodgers It's like I was just thinking of nose Dodgers anonymous where it's just like Um, you know, you think you're on the nose, and you're definitely not. Guilty

[00:34:36] Tyler: as charged.

[00:34:36] Erin: And it's fine to not make it. Like, that's totally fine.

[00:34:39] Erin: But to not make it, I guess, and then say you're making it, that's why you're never gonna actually make it, is cause you're not able to like, just be like, look, I just gotta keep pushing.

[00:34:48] Tyler: This is why it's really important to have like little strips on the nose so that, you know, you're on the nose. Exactly.

[00:34:54] Erin: You just got to, if you cut you, you got to put little dings in the front of your board. And if you cut your feet, you've hit the [00:35:00] nose. And that's my tip. Is that what you do? That's how you know, so many dings on the front. So unsafe.

[00:35:09] Tyler: That's awesome. I mean, I, do you think it gives you an advantage then that you have, you know, That you can make a living or live this life outside of the surf industry, you know, like, uh, coming in one, like learning later in life, but also to, you're not so dependent on this one little industry. Like you, you're able to live outside of it.

[00:35:33] Erin: Oh, yeah. Like, I mean, I'm just like, surfing is for leisure, pure leisure for me. And I think that makes a huge difference because it allows me to do whatever nonsense I'm doing. I don't have to, for better or worse, I don't have to conform in the ways that maybe some other people might have to conform in order to like, I don't have to be on my Instagram, if you look at my Instagram, I am not on it, and I know that that would, uh, probably bum out anybody who is trying to sponsor people.[00:36:00]

[00:36:00] Erin: Well, I mean, you know. And then when I'm on it, I'm just posting that I've been on like a hike or that I'm playing with my dog, so it's just like. Well, do you,

[00:36:09] Tyler: do you. Would you ever want to? Like, if someone came to you with a contract. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not opposed to it.

[00:36:15] Erin: I've never, that's the saddest part.

[00:36:17] Erin: I've never been opposed to it. It's just never really, um, come to fruition the way you Hope it would.

[00:36:24] Tyler: I always, I always have misgivings about trying to make surfing my work somehow, like making a living off it. Yeah. This podcast, by the way, listeners, I don't make any money off this, so just a heads up. I think it's the same

[00:36:36] Erin: concept where they say, what is it like, um, find something you love and make it your job so you hate it.

[00:36:41] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:36:43] Erin: That's fine, because I'm like, I'm gonna complain about anything I do, even if I love it. Of course. For me, it doesn't, it wouldn't matter.

[00:36:50] Tyler: Yeah,

[00:36:51] Erin: I'll complain about everything and everybody who knows me knows that if it's warm, I'm gonna complain if it's cold I'm gonna complain. That's kind of my program.

[00:36:59] Erin: Hopefully it's [00:37:00] like funny, but like I was never gonna be happy So well,

[00:37:03] Tyler: but it also like I think it allows you the freedom to To do the things you want to do and say the things you want to say without having that repercussion as so much in the industry. Oh,

[00:37:15] Erin: for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:37:16] Tyler: You know, like that's, that's the thing that, you know, I do this podcast, like no one pays me, no one's giving me money or anything for it.

[00:37:24] Tyler: So I could. Say whatever the hell. Yeah, you can invite whoever you want and like have

[00:37:27] Erin: whatever conversations you want. And there is a freedom in that where I don't have it's like I don't have to worry about like how many treats I'm eating out here in New York because it doesn't matter.

[00:37:36] Tyler: Yeah, I

[00:37:36] Erin: don't have to like look a certain way or be a certain way or act a certain way.

[00:37:40] Erin: Um, I just I mean maybe for society but like not for any sponsor, you know, so In that sense, it's really freeing, is that like, I don't have to worry about a lot of things that I think a lot of other, like, professional surfers have to worry about.

[00:37:53] Tyler: Who, who do you look to in the surfing world, though, that you admire right now, or you enjoy [00:38:00] surfing with, or kind of look up to, I guess?

[00:38:05] Erin: That's a good question. Um, I like, I mean, I look up to and I get to surf with, like, Cass a lot.

[00:38:10] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:38:10] Erin: And, um, she's been an invaluable resource, like, my whole I guess my whole surfing career, I would say. Really? You know, she's always been like a point of inspiration, and she's always been like a source of light, and like kindness, and friendship, and she was the first person to take me on like a trip.

[00:38:28] Erin: Really? Um, and, you know, and she, she got Roxy to pay for it.

[00:38:33] Tyler: Wow.

[00:38:33] Erin: And, um, they paid for like the hotel, they paid for the flight, they paid for everything for me, and it was just like, I'm just some person. Who doesn't have any of the money to do any of that and and she got her company to do it for me So it was like cool.

[00:38:46] Tyler: That's amazing.

[00:38:46] Erin: And that's the kind of person cast has always been and so it's really it's really cool to see that that's the person you thought she was when you are looking from the outside in and then um Having the privilege to be on [00:39:00] the inside like that's the person she is and there's something so fucking cool about that You know to find out that she's just as cool as you thought she was going to be And just as kind and generous You It's sick.

[00:39:09] Tyler: She to me like she she walks a walk very much. So yeah, she's Every time I've interacted with she's been incredibly cool. Her surfing is fucking fire. Yeah phenomenal She was here last month and you know, you just sit on the beach and you just watch and you're just like, oh my god She's just next level.

[00:39:31] Tyler: Yeah,

[00:39:31] Erin: it's just so good.

[00:39:33] Tyler: It's so good and like It's funny, like it is, it is a scary thing meeting those people you look up to or kind of enjoy their surfing and then you kind of meet them and you're kind of like bummed out. Yeah,

[00:39:48] Erin: yeah, and there's that also like I've gone surfing tons of times with her and People recognize her in the water and the time and energy she gives the people is, is so gracious [00:40:00]because I know that like, she's willing to turn it on at any moment.

[00:40:03] Tyler: And I know

[00:40:04] Erin: all of us don't have that social energy and the way that she'll just give her time and her energy, even in the water when she's just trying to have a free minute, is like wild.

[00:40:13] Tyler: And it

[00:40:13] Erin: really makes me want to think about how I interact with, you know, people, and I might, might not do the best at it, but like,

[00:40:20] Tyler: I'm aware.

[00:40:20] Tyler: Do you, like, do you mentor any younger surfers, or do you, do you? I don't know. Or hang out with any younger surfers? I do, I do hang out

[00:40:28] Erin: with younger surfers. Um, I would say maybe I mentor him, uh, hopefully, hopefully only in the good ways, um.

[00:40:39] Tyler: Well, I mean, he could be a little bit of a bad influence, you know. Yeah,

[00:40:42] Erin: it's hard to say. I, I mean, I do, I do hang out with the like, there's a lot of really cool surfers and, and guys and gals, um, at my like local breaks. And they are so fun to hang out with, like I hang out with Aiden Cruz a good bit, um, Joe Kukling is always at the beach, um, Ava Levy is, [00:41:00] um, she's at church all the time so I get to see her all the time and she's such a good surfer and such a great human.

[00:41:06] Erin: And, um, there's just so many people, and it's really inspiring. I think that's the thing, it's what I loved about judging. Yeah. And it's what I love about surfing, is that there's so many different people, and so many people's styles are interesting, and people approach waves completely differently than I would have thought to.

[00:41:23] Erin: Yeah. And I love getting to see that, and I love seeing people get better. Like Wesley. I, I'm gonna ruin his last name. It's like Berg.

[00:41:32] Tyler: Mm-Hmm. ,

[00:41:32] Erin: I think. But, um, his surfing has gone so insanely good over the past couple years and it's so exciting to see, you know? Right. And, and that kind of, that kinda shit gets me so hyped, , you know.

[00:41:45] Tyler: How do you judge surfing then? Like how, how would you go into judging like, you know, the Mexi log fest or, or any contest. Any contest. It's interesting.

[00:41:53] Erin: It. It, regardless of what people say you're, you're doing, it is designed to be a bit [00:42:00] objective.

[00:42:00] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:42:00] Erin: So there are certain requirements for like certain, uh, ranges of points.

[00:42:05] Erin: So like, you know, one to two is kind of like, uh, you stood and you kind of fell, or you stood and you like ran to the nose and bogged immediately or something. And then like, it keeps like incrementally going up in twos. So you kind of, when you're judging, you kind of watch the wave. And as you're watching it, you'll, you'll just watch and at some point you get, depending on how they're surfing, they'll hit like certain marks where you're like, in your brain, you're kind of like, Oh, they're at like a five or six.

[00:42:30] Erin: Oh, and then they do something like, Oh, shoot, they're at like a seven now. And then you kind of like start with like your base numbers. And then from there, you decide where you're going to like lock it into.

[00:42:42] Tyler: Obviously depends on the conditions as well. Yeah,

[00:42:45] Erin: depends on a lot of things, which is so interesting and fun.

[00:42:48] Tyler: I always felt like. Especially with wave pools now, like. I always feel like now judging may need to become more like, uh, figure skating [00:43:00] maybe where you have to hit certain maneuvers or certain, do certain things. You kind of

[00:43:04] Erin: do already.

[00:43:05] Tyler: Yeah?

[00:43:06] Erin: Yeah, there are kind of like loose requirements, like, we'll tell you it's like the speed, power and flow and how you decide and then it's up to you decide how you like implement that.

[00:43:15] Erin: Yeah. But it does require you to like decide, you can't really Exhibit your version of like power and flow if you're not making a turn, you know,

[00:43:25] Tyler: yeah

[00:43:26] Erin: You can't show people that you have like control of the board necessarily if you're not on the nose at some point Mm

[00:43:32] Tyler: hmm.

[00:43:32] Erin: And so like things do have to happen during that It's just like rather than giving you this specific Criteria of how to go about the wave and do it we leave that up to you and maybe that's a bit too loose But like it's your job to interpret the wave The description.

[00:43:46] Erin: It's kind of like an essay, you know? Like, you get an essay in English and

[00:43:50] Tyler: your

[00:43:50] Erin: teacher gives you, like, a real loose, you get to write it on, like, Huck Finn or something and you have to hit, it's like, what are your feelings on this and then you get to choose how you, like, [00:44:00] write that essay.

[00:44:00] Tyler: Well, it's how, it's the style that you do it, the way you use the words, it's the, the curriculum, yeah.

[00:44:05] Tyler: But we're all writing the same,

[00:44:06] Erin: the same paper, essentially, you know? We all got the same prompt. Yeah. And then we choose to implement it differently. So it is very, in a weird way, it's like very regimented. Yeah. That I think people don't understand because it's hard to like, look at it that way sometimes.

[00:44:20] Tyler: Well it's hard like, particularly like longboarding, I think it's hard for people to always Understand the nuances because everything is meant to look easy and effortless. And it is

[00:44:31] Erin: hard to explain it to people because like when I'm looking at a wave, like I can't explain it. And I'm always down to because I do love talking about surfing.

[00:44:38] Erin: But there's a lot that goes into like the decision. Like, like I can explain why people are getting this score versus this score. But it takes like a lot of information. There's like base information and then there's like the nuance that you need to know.

[00:44:52] Tyler: Do you think long borders are as competitive as like the short borders?

[00:44:57] Tyler: That's like,

[00:44:57] Erin: you that question. Oh, okay. That's true, for sure. [00:45:00] Ha ha ha

[00:45:00] Tyler: ha ha ha. So, so Joel Tudor's like, oh, I don't care about competition, but he really does type of

[00:45:05] Erin: thing. I think, I think some people don't care about competition, but those are just individuals, you know, that don't care. I think, but I think as a whole, like people who care about competition, they're just choosing different vehicles, you know?

[00:45:17] Erin: Like, there's pickleball competitions. People care about leisure sports. Like, the sport can be a sport of leisure, but it doesn't mean people aren't going to be taking it real serious.

[00:45:28] Tyler: Serious people take

[00:45:29] Erin: it serious.

[00:45:29] Tyler: Well, it's funny because the longboarding You know, it, it, it portrays or, you know, the industry has portrayed it in such a manner that it's, Oh, I'm just here because I enjoyed.

[00:45:40] Tyler: I'm artsy. I longboard. I don't care about the competition. Have you been

[00:45:44] Erin: on Instagram? They're all very serious.

[00:45:46] Tyler: I

[00:45:47] Erin: know. Well, they're not laid back at all. No,

[00:45:51] Tyler: they're not. And then they, and then they, you know, like you guys do Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, which is also really competitive and really intense as well.

[00:45:59] Tyler: Like it's [00:46:00] not like. It's not like we're seeing someone, like, clip bonsai trees, you know, very often. Yeah, it's also, it's

[00:46:06] Erin: real trippy because it's like People come from like that background and then they'll be like, you're not competitive and I'm like, no, I'm not super competitive and they're like, you didn't play like sports in high school, and I'm like, bro, I was in marching band, um, we didn't have competitions.

[00:46:21] Tyler: Like, we did, we did have, we did have

[00:46:24] Erin: competitions, but like, we didn't, I didn't treat it like, you know, you wanted to, actually I don't think I, it's cooler to win. But I don't actually think I, I don't think I performed like I wanted to win. I just was performing for better or worse, but, um, I don't think it taught me the competitive drive.

[00:46:40] Erin: Yeah. Definitely not the competitive drive that I need to succeed in, like, longboarding contests today, you know? Like, I just don't, I really don't know if I have it in me, or at the very least, I can't find it, you know?

[00:46:52] Tyler: Well, I think, I don't know about you, but for me, as I get older, I'm less and less competitive.

[00:46:59] Tyler: Although, [00:47:00] my wife will tell you differently, probably.

[00:47:02] Erin: Maybe you're just more specific about it.

[00:47:04] Tyler: Maybe, maybe, or maybe I'm more realistic too. Like I'm like, I don't think I can beat this person now. Like, or.

[00:47:11] Erin: So I'm not playing. Yeah, I like that. I like that. It's just as competitive though.

[00:47:14] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:47:17] Erin: But I mean, I think people can be non competitive and do like Jiu Jitsu and stuff like that.

[00:47:21] Erin: I just think, I just think, uh, a lot of the personality types, like you're competitive, like I think Lorde does Jiu Jitsu and I don't know if she's super competitive about it. I mean, I don't think she wants to lose, but. I think she's that kind of person where she's like, I'm not competitive, but I also would choose not to lose, which I think is most

[00:47:40] Tyler: well, it's, it's technique, right?

[00:47:42] Tyler: Like you become focused, so focused on technique, maybe that you want to keep perfecting that technique. And that's, that's another motivation.

[00:47:51] Erin: Yeah, it's a different form. If it's like, it's, It's maybe not, um, external competition, but it's like definitely like internal. So it's, it's all this, we're all [00:48:00] competitive, I guess, is the end of that conversation is where we've circled back to.

[00:48:04] Erin: We're all competitive.

[00:48:05] Tyler: Well, Let me ask then, like, we'll go to your musical interests again, I want to go back, like, how did you get into playing the sax, and, and woodwind instruments?

[00:48:15] Erin: Um, so when I was a tiny kid, um, I wanted to play, I got into, I think I started when I was in third grade or second grade?

[00:48:22] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:48:23] Erin: And, um, I wanted to play clarinet. Much cooler instrument, but because my well also because my grandpa had a clarinet and he had a saxophone and we all wanted to play Like woodwinds and so, um, my grandpa was like, well, I have a clarinet and a saxophone. So those are your choices

[00:48:38] Tyler: Yeah,

[00:48:38] Erin: and I was like clarinet for sure the cool one And then I tried to play it and my hands weren't big enough to cover the holes.

[00:48:45] Erin: So I literally couldn't play it So then I played saxophone, and that's

[00:48:49] Tyler: it. See, I always thought the sax was cooler than the clarinet. No,

[00:48:52] Erin: the saxophone's for sure I thought the

[00:48:54] Tyler: sax was way cooler than the clarinet. Also,

[00:48:57] Erin: that's like a, you know, what is that? Like an eight [00:49:00] year old making a decision for the rest of their life?

[00:49:02] Tyler: Yeah!

[00:49:03] Erin: It's like I don't know if eight year olds are like the, um, epitome of coolness.

[00:49:09] Tyler: Well, they eventually will define it, you know? They will define it at some point. And, well, it's interesting, like, I grew up, I played the sax as well, um, and also the cello. Yeah. And then it got to a point where I had to choose between, and I chose the sax because it seemed cooler.

[00:49:28] Tyler: Yeah, no, the

[00:49:28] Erin: sax is for sure cooler than the cello.

[00:49:30] Tyler: No, I don't know. Now I love the cello. Well, no, not the cello, but the sax is cooler

[00:49:34] Erin: than a clarinet, that's for sure. Yeah,

[00:49:36] Tyler: yeah. Then they put me to the baritone because I was so tall. They were just like, let's just give him the baritone, you know?

[00:49:42] Erin: Yeah, that does make sense.

[00:49:44] Tyler: Let me ask, like, your grandfather, it seems like he had a big role in your life. Oh, for

[00:49:49] Erin: sure. Um, we're big family people, actually. Tell me about

[00:49:53] Tyler: him.

[00:49:54] Erin: Uh, my grandpa, this is my grandpa Donald. My grandpa Ray, on my mom's side, actually. Actually was also a [00:50:00] saxophone player. What? And he played in like a jazz band.

[00:50:03] Erin: That is like, up until I think up until I died. Um, yeah, he was really into it and he would just give me very serious advice whenever we were playing. And then he would like, um, it was, I would be, you know, still like fourth grade or something and he'd be like, let me check your embouchure. And like, he would like, he'd like, he would like pinch his, I mean, this is not a visual medium, but you would like, you would tuck in your mouth like this, and then he would like pinch my, the sides of my mouth to make sure my, the, Outside of my mouth was like tight enough.

[00:50:33] Erin: And he'd be like, you want it to be like this?

[00:50:35] Tyler: Oh my gosh. So

[00:50:37] Erin: his advice was just purely technical and like real, but like really good advice. And I kind of love that that was the way he showed his love and showed me how to like play an instrument. He just really wanted me to succeed at it. Yeah. You know, and he was like, you need to get like a metal mouthpiece.

[00:50:53] Erin: I'm like, I'm truly nine years old. He's like, you need a metal mouthpiece, a jazz mouthpiece. Um, Your

[00:50:59] Tyler: [00:51:00] parents must be like, stop already. I'm like, bro, this fool

[00:51:02] Erin: is playing the worst game.

[00:51:04] Tyler: Dad, come on. He she's only nine,

[00:51:08] Erin: but no, my uncle, my, my grandpa. So then my grandpa Donald on my dad's side, he was a sax player.

[00:51:13] Erin: Also, he played it in, um, high school. He played clarinet in high school. He played it through college. And he played it his whole life and so he taught all of us. He was a, he was an educator so he was a patient man and he was willing to listen to us play terrible, terrible music as like little tiny kids who for sure weren't listening and, um, he was a big fan of like musicals, um, like the music man and stuff and like, One of his favorite songs was, like, Sweet Georgia Brown, and so, like, like, Take the A Train.

[00:51:44] Erin: He was a big Benny Goodman fan. And so, um, I think I got a real passion for, like, all types of music. And, like, musicals, for sure, um, from him. And, um, yeah, I don't know.

[00:51:56] Tyler: What was he like? Like, as a person, do you remember?

[00:51:58] Erin: He was great. He was serious [00:52:00] sometimes.

[00:52:00] Tyler: Yeah. I

[00:52:00] Erin: think he was serious, but what, you know how some people are serious but want to be fun?

[00:52:04] Tyler: Yeah. I

[00:52:04] Erin: think he was one of those people, where it's like, he reminds me of my brother in personality a lot of the time. Where he's like, my brother always wants to, you can tell he just wants to be fun. Yeah. And if somebody could just unlock that door, he'd be like, great. But like, he has to also be very serious at the same time.

[00:52:20] Tyler: You just gotta slip him a mickey, you know? Get him loosened up a little.

[00:52:26] Erin: We just disregard everything he says until he finally just has to cave.

[00:52:30] Tyler: But you, you played your grandfather's sax at his funeral, right?

[00:52:34] Erin: Yeah, yeah, I did. That was so stressful and you shouldn't, you should never ask somebody to do that.

[00:52:39] Erin: Really? That's something. It was Why not? That's very sweet. It is. It's very sweet. I played it. Um And, um, I played the UCLA, um, fight song at his, uh, at his grave and his final resting place. Um, and it's kind of fun cause it, it was brought a [00:53:00] levity, I guess, to his, he was a huge UCLA fan. Yeah. Um, it brought a levity to his funeral, I think that, you know, is always needed.

[00:53:07] Erin: Um, and it also like, Was just like it encompassed everything because he taught all of us to play an instrument and I think that's so valuable.

[00:53:15] Tyler: Yeah

[00:53:17] Erin: In everybody's life. I don't care if you keep playing it You don't have to keep playing an instrument, but I think there's so much value in teaching a kid music

[00:53:25] Tyler: Well, it's the appreciation for it.

[00:53:27] Tyler: Yeah, you know, it's like one you're learning Oh, this is really difficult or this takes a lot of time You're teaching people how to practice and be persistent But at the same time you're teaching like music, you know, when you play and you're young, you're, you're playing, you know, whoever, it depends on who's teaching you, but you're getting lots of different, you know, influence.

[00:53:47] Tyler: Sometimes it's marching band, but then other times it's jazz. And, you know, it's, it's really nice to kind of, you know,

[00:53:53] Erin: Expand your horizons. Exactly. There's so many, like, there's tons of, I can talk about a lot of music, but there's like so [00:54:00] many facets to my love of music and that has to do with the fact that I think I'm much more open to listening to different types.

[00:54:06] Erin: And because a lot of different music, you know, has impacted my life throughout my life, different styles and stuff.

[00:54:14] Tyler: When did you, like, I know for me, like when I played, you know, instruments, like I liked it and I liked to do it, but I wasn't like. Oh, this is I can't wait to get home and practice type of thing.

[00:54:27] Erin: Oh, yeah

[00:54:27] Tyler: Was that you like you couldn't wait to get home? I wish

[00:54:30] Erin: I should have been that person if somebody had told me when I was younger that I could actually be really good at this they should have done it because um, It turns out I could have actually probably been really good at saxophone, but I just didn't um, take it seriously enough You know, it was always for pleasure in a way.

[00:54:46] Erin: It was serious It's serious enough, you know, but I, if I had taken it a little more serious, I bet you I could have been like actually good at it.

[00:54:53] Tyler: But I mean, like you, you, you played in numerous bands, you, you do kind of take it [00:55:00] seriously in this. Anytime you're performing for people, I think you're taking it, yeah, that's because that's a big fear of most people is stage fright anyway.

[00:55:09] Tyler: So to get up in front of people and have to perform is. It's pretty full on actually. I think that's pretty serious. And you are

[00:55:15] Erin: taking somebody, it's kind of wild because it's a weird experience because people like, um, take time out of their evening and they've paid money that they worked for and the whole thing.

[00:55:26] Erin: And it's like you're an experience for somebody. And I do try to take that a little bit, uh, responsibly, you know?

[00:55:32] Tyler: Yeah. Do you think the sax is limiting? for types of genre that you could play in. I actually

[00:55:38] Erin: don't. You don't? I say it a lot, but I don't. I think we were talking about it before the

[00:55:42] Tyler: episode, right?

[00:55:43] Tyler: Like, so It's in tons

[00:55:43] Erin: of music.

[00:55:44] Tyler: Yeah. Yeah. But I was just saying, like, it's ska or Jazz. Jazz band. They have to be much

[00:55:50] Erin: better to do jazz, so That's the problem with it. So I did ska instead.

[00:55:55] Tyler: Or you're gonna be playing, you know, Bruce Springsteen cover band, which is great.

[00:55:59] Erin: [00:56:00] That's true. Or you could be in like a marching band type like, you know, um, Sousa, like, you know, Philip Sousa, like type concert in the park band.

[00:56:09] Erin: There's

[00:56:09] Tyler: so much actually. There's a ton you can do. There's a ton, but like, it is super cool. And like, do you, is it alto, or that you mainly play tenor? Tenor, tenor's my main

[00:56:19] Erin: one, yeah.

[00:56:20] Tyler: Okay, alright. I like the tenor too, I used to play that too. It's good, it's not

[00:56:24] Erin: too high, it's not too low. It's cool. Um, it has a really cool tone, um, people look very cool playing it, you know?

[00:56:32] Erin: Um,

[00:56:35] Tyler: How does that influence your surfing then? Or do vice versa? Do they, do they interact at all?

[00:56:41] Erin: They must, you know? They must interact. Um, I don't know, necessarily know exactly how it does, but I do know that like I listen to certain music before I like, go out and like, um, What's your

[00:56:51] Tyler: surf psych up music?

[00:56:53] Erin: Right now, I've been listening to this like, Dizzy Gillespie, Dizzy in, Dizzy on the French Riviera, it's like a live album [00:57:00] I think.

[00:57:00] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:57:00] Erin: And that album is just like, it's like an album about where I'd rather be at all times. So it's like perfect for when I'm like reading, it's perfect for when I'm like going to the beach, um, it's just such a good album, I couldn't recommend it enough.

[00:57:15] Tyler: I went through a phase of listening to Whiplash before going surfing. I love it. And, and this brings us back to almost like what we were talking about before with like thinking you can pass. You know, desserts out, subpar, you know, what they said in that movie is, you know, the most, uh, dangerous words in human language is good enough.

[00:57:37] Erin: Yeah, that's true. I also think, I do think, like, the music you listen to kind of sets your mood and, um, I don't know. I don't know. I think you should be cognizant of that sometimes before you surf. Definitely. Especially if you had a bad surf. Yeah. Know what you were listening to and don't listen to it again.

[00:57:56] Tyler: Well it's funny, like, I've, sometimes just the worst [00:58:00] songs get in your head though, just for whatever reason, like earworms and stuff.

[00:58:04] Erin: Yeah.

[00:58:04] Tyler: What would be your worst song to go surfing to?

[00:58:08] Erin: Oh, I don't get a lot of earworms, um, I usually, when I'm surfing, I, I sing the song from Mario Brothers or like, um Um Uh, yeah And now I'm thinking Mortal Kombat I like, you know the like, electronic

[00:58:28] Tyler: Yeah

[00:58:29] Erin: That electronic like, Mortal Kombat song That's a song, you'll see it, you can see it in videos You can see that like, I'm whistling sometimes When I'm like, surfing Um, and that's usually That's usually That would probably be something I'm, I'm probably whistling some video game song, to be honest, which is wild.

[00:58:46] Tyler: I actually, Zelda songs. I've surfed to the, the Super Mario one, but I've heard also remixes of it, which I kind of enjoy. And then I'm like, you know, this is actually great. For me, the worst song, my brother and I used to joke, would be, like, We Are [00:59:00] Family, would you? You know,

[00:59:01] Erin: here's what I'm also gonna say, and I just noticed this, somebody pointed it out to me, is that I don't get lyrics stuck in my head.

[00:59:07] Tyler: You don't?

[00:59:08] Erin: No, but it's probably cause I play sax. So I'm very much into, like, horn lines, and I'm into that part of the music. So even when I'm, like, listening to a song, I don't necessarily, like, memorize lyrics. I memorize, like, the melody of things.

[00:59:22] Tyler: Are you a visual person, or are you, like, a, like, memory, memorizing, uh, letters, numbers, you know?

[00:59:31] Tyler: Probably

[00:59:31] Erin: more visual. Yeah.

[00:59:32] Tyler: Yeah. Like, I always, for me, like, everything has been super visual, like, I can't, but I can remember names, I can remember, like, visually, I can see the paragraph of something, but, but it's not so much the actual words for myself, you know, I have to actually see the page, uh, which is why I don't remember as much now, because it's all on a screen instead.

[00:59:55] Erin: Yeah, that's true. That is true. It makes it much harder, I do think. Um, yeah, I had [01:00:00] an ex that, like, was really Not on me, but he would always point out that, like, I didn't know the lyrics to, like, my favorite songs. And he'd be like, you don't even know them. But it was because I was always listening to, like, the melody.

[01:00:12] Erin: Well, you listen to the other layers. Yeah, I'm listening to every other part of the song.

[01:00:16] Tyler: Exactly. You know, which makes sense, you know? I mean, well, most people, though, kind of do that. What's that SNL skit when they all like it's like all the songs, you know But you don't know the words, but you only know a few of them and they're like you had to be a big shot Did you and then you just like ramble off, you know, that's kind of me.

[01:00:35] Erin: Yeah, it's that so I don't actually get the earworms because I don't know any of the lyrics anyways, so it's it works out perfect for me

[01:00:42] Tyler: I want to talk about something you posted recently that I thought was really fun and interesting. I want to talk bison

[01:00:50] Erin: Oh, Bison, yeah. What do you want to know about him?

[01:00:54] Tyler: Well, you, you said this thing that I thought was really interesting. You said, seeing a bison is like [01:01:00] looking into the past and future at the same time. And I was hoping you could kind of expand on that. You had this, uh, recent experience, and I was hoping you can kind of talk about it a little. Oh, yeah.

[01:01:09] Tyler: Well,

[01:01:09] Erin: just to Preface it, I was up in, uh, Yellowstone area, and they have a bunch in the wild, and, um, in the mid, is it the mid 1800s? I think we almost hunted, and by we I mean the United States, um, hunted them to extinction, and it was on purpose. It was done to, um, help, uh, eradicate another group of people.

[01:01:33] Erin: It was done because we were using their, um, hides for, like, machinery, so it helped during like the industrial, it start like Not the start, but like, during the Industrial Revolution, it turned out that like, uh, the bison's like, uh, leather was really good. So they, so you would just get tons of money for just the hides.

[01:01:52] Erin: And just

[01:01:52] Tyler: leave them, right?

[01:01:53] Erin: Yeah, so people would leave everything else, but because of the way they were being hunted, A lot of the hides just weren't even good. So, so [01:02:00] I don't remember and I feel bad and I'm saying it on, on air, on the record. So I'm, but like, um, I don't know the actual number, but I want to say it was like, it was low, like, I don't know, six out of ten hides were used.

[01:02:15] Erin: And like, and the other ones, a lot of, I don't know if the exact number, but a lot of hides went to waste. So then we're not even using all the hides and it's just like this animal that is known. And it's the nation's state, or the nation's nation, official animal, I

[01:02:30] Tyler: guess.

[01:02:31] Erin: But like, um, we tried to kill it intentionally, and then we decided not to.

[01:02:38] Erin: And so it's kind of cool and terrible at the same thing, cause it, it really, the bison really embodies, um, the worst of our, our intentions, and then also the best of our intentions. And we just have to choose which one's the best. We want to like push on, I guess, and the bison itself, um, the fortitude that it's able [01:03:00] to like, you know, um, still persevere.

[01:03:03] Erin: And it's an animal that runs like if there's a storm, it runs straight into the storm. It doesn't back down. It's just, it just keeps going. And that's probably, and that's, it was to its deficit. And that's one of the reasons it was so easy to hunt is because it never learned to like hide.

[01:03:19] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:03:19] Erin: It never learned.

[01:03:22] Erin: If you were in a group of them, if somebody shot the main one, they would just run to the second one. And so it was really easy to, like, end up killing all of them because, like, they didn't learn to, like, just run away from the shots.

[01:03:35] Tyler: Because they were the biggest animals on the continent, basically, for a number of years, pretty much.

[01:03:40] Tyler: And they weren't necessarily harming

[01:03:41] Erin: anything, and nobody necessarily was harming them, like, not to the extent that it was happening. And so it's, like, an animal that, like, just keeps pushing forward, you know? And so there's something kind of really, I don't know, powerful and beautiful. And it's crazy to think that we Destroyed it and then you get to see it and [01:04:00] you're like great.

[01:04:01] Erin: It's like it's so fucking It's so cool to see them just out there just fucking living in again, you know,

[01:04:10] Tyler: and they've rebounded tremendously And they're like they they're super responsible like I don't mean to be like there was their environmentally responsible but when they like Cows, when they eat, they rip the grass out and rip out the roots, and they cause desertification, whereas bison clips the grass, and they don't destroy the areas that they're in.

[01:04:34] Tyler: They're, you know, because they're, they're native, and just the way that they, they live almost feels more harmonious, I guess? Yeah, the way they

[01:04:41] Erin: interact with the land and the other animals is incredible. Like, When they're cleaning themselves with the dirt and rubbing themselves into the, into the ground to clean themselves off, they create these little shallow, um, areas for water to gather.

[01:04:55] Erin: And so it gives other animals like water.

[01:04:59] Tyler: Now, [01:05:00] let me ask you, do you consider yourself a social activist or social justice activists? Do you get involved?

[01:05:07] Erin: I don't consider myself one. Um, but I, I, But I guess, I mean, other people can consider me whatever they'd like to, I suppose.

[01:05:17] Tyler: I don't want to tell

[01:05:17] Erin: other people what to think, but, um, I guess I get involved.

[01:05:20] Erin: I just, I don't know.

[01:05:21] Tyler: Are there certain causes that, that you're really passionate about? That you, you believe, like, wholeheartedly, like, put yourself in, in protest or, or do whatever? Yeah, absolutely. Like, what are, what are some of the things that are really for you right now? My

[01:05:36] Erin: baseline is, um I just feel like all people, it sounds cheesy, but it's just like all people deserve, you know, to be respected and they deserve autonomy and they deserve the ability, the same things that I am afforded and they ought to be able to live a life in which they are able to flourish.

[01:05:56] Erin: And I don't think that's super complicated.

[01:05:59] Tyler: [01:06:00] Yeah.

[01:06:00] Erin: And so anything I can do in which people aren't living that life. Um, I try and push for it. I will say that like, and you, and you asked me earlier, but it was like, there was a moment when I was younger, I had a friend that, uh, killed themselves when I was like 18, and the world was like a bit too hard for them.

[01:06:19] Erin: Like he was a bit soft, and he had a lot of feelings, and a lot of emotions, and, and, and maybe took the world too hard, or too harshly. And it made me think about how the world pushes on us. And it made me realize that the problem really isn't that he was too soft. The problem is that the world's too fucking hard.

[01:06:39] Erin: And it doesn't need to be.

[01:06:40] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:06:41] Erin: And just because it is doesn't mean it needs to stay that way. And so I feel like that really had an impact on my life when I was like younger. In which I realized that the world just didn't need to be as hard as it is.

[01:06:52] Tyler: What do you think then of like, this kind of movement that I see, that I feel like I see in [01:07:00] surfing particularly where it's a kind of, I hate using the term toxic masculinity, but it's like that Joe Rogan esque kind of idea of masculinity and that you have to be hard and you have to be kind of tough or that Andrew Tate kind of thing.

[01:07:16] Tyler: And I feel like I see it, maybe it's because my feed is mostly surfing, but I feel like I see it more in surfing. now than I have even in some ways.

[01:07:25] Erin: Oh, interesting. My fade is definitely not all surfing. Um,

[01:07:29] Tyler: so maybe I'm not seeing it as much.

[01:07:31] Erin: Well, I think, I think it's rough. I think it's hard because if the world's requiring certain things of you, then you have to do your best to, um, you know, to, to perform at least in a way that gives a perception of like acquiescing to all that.

[01:07:50] Erin: And I think that kind of pressure is really hard on people, especially if you're not. And I don't know if we should be putting those kind of, like, constraints on [01:08:00] ourselves, or others, you know? Yeah. People should be allowed to interact however they'd like to. If they want to act like a hard body. They can act like a hard body, but you shouldn't expect it of everybody, you know?

[01:08:13] Tyler: I know, like it, it, it frustrates me as a, as, I think as a male it becomes more pronounced, you know, that type of attitude maybe? Yeah, it's

[01:08:24] Erin: really tough, it's probably really tough to

[01:08:27] Tyler: You know, it's funny, like I, I mean for me, like I'm a big guy, big burly guy, uh, who probably if you saw me, you know, from a distance, you'd be like, that guy's, Maybe a tough guy or whatever.

[01:08:40] Tyler: I don't know. Then again, a lot of people always ask me for directions and money. So maybe I have a bull's eye on me, but it's hard because like you, you know, you, you don't want to have to always be that way and you don't want to be tough or seem tough or I'm a very sensitive, uh, emotional person. [01:09:00] And then like, you see people be like, Oh, these, all these beginner surfers are soft or this and that, or they're not as tough as, or.

[01:09:08] Tyler: I feel like a lot of people Put the things that were done to them. They're like, well, I got to do it to the next. Yeah And like

[01:09:14] Erin: people do need to learn and I'm not saying people don't need to learn, you know Respect and and the rules and any of that stuff But I will say and this is coming from somebody who's worked in a kitchen, which is famously most kitchens are famously toxic

[01:09:27] Tyler: Yeah,

[01:09:28] Erin: um, we don't have to do it in the in the ways that we do choose to do it.

[01:09:31] Erin: Sometimes We can choose Nicer ways to do it. It doesn't mean we're gonna make soft people. Yeah. Um, it just means we're not gonna make people with, with trauma Yeah. Is what we're gonna try. And that's, we're not trying to create the softest humans on earth. We're just trying to create humans that don't have like deep seated traumas that they have to then impact impart on other human beings.

[01:09:54] Tyler: Yeah. You know, the argument is always, you know, by being showing vulnerability, you're [01:10:00] actually showing strength, you know, as opposed to, you know, hiding whatever that is because of that fear or weakness or perceived weakness. But I think like, yeah, like with surfing, it's like we don't have to be so tough on people.

[01:10:17] Tyler: We don't have to, you know, do the things like in Australia where they would tie a grommet to a flagpole and throw piss on them and whatnot. Yeah. Grommet abuse, like, you know, we don't have to do that to the next generation. I mean, yeah, yeah, and

[01:10:29] Erin: it's wild because you're like, oh, that's pretty, it's pretty silly.

[01:10:31] Erin: It's pretty funny. But we can also do it in a way that's not like completely. Um, traumatizing or something. And there are lines that I think, you know, there's lines where you can egg people, um, but not like be, you know, terrible.

[01:10:46] Tyler: Do you, do you think because you learned later in some ways you got to, I don't want to say avoid all of that, but you got to, like as a kid growing up in that you kind of are subjected to it and you have no [01:11:00] choice in the matter, as opposed to when you're older or as a grownup and you're learning surfing, like, you know, You're still going to, you know, you could get harassed and stuff, but it's not.

[01:11:10] Tyler: But you have a choice, a little bit more, uh, agency, I guess, to manage it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

[01:11:14] Erin: yeah. I mean, I think probably both. Because there was definitely a lot of people telling me I was doing things wrong. Yeah. Um, telling me, like, I could go to a different beach. But also there was a part of me that was just like, um, you know, that had experienced bullying when I was a kid.

[01:11:29] Erin: And, um, And it was just bullying, so it wasn't like tied to like, this is, um, the end result will be great, you'll be a better human for it, you know?

[01:11:40] Tyler: You'll be a much better surfer if you let us abuse you. Yeah, once we finish bullying

[01:11:44] Erin: you, you get to be, you'll be in the in crowd. It was just like classic, like middle school style bullying, right?

[01:11:52] Erin: And, and the end result of that is realizing that it's not cool.

[01:11:55] Tyler: Like,

[01:11:56] Erin: you know what wasn't fun? Being bullied when you're a tiny kid.

[01:11:59] Tyler: [01:12:00] It sucks.

[01:12:00] Erin: And there's no, there's not a lot of pluses that come out of that. And so it was like, I didn't have the same sort of bullying that maybe, like, other people had.

[01:12:07] Erin: Cause it's, um, cause I wasn't surfing. So when people, you know, people would tell me I was doing things wrong, I could take it.

[01:12:14] Tyler: But

[01:12:14] Erin: when people were telling me to, like, fucking scram You know, I was like, well, that's not how we treat people, you know, and there's a, and there's a bit of a difference, you know, and, and I will preface it by saying that, like, when people were telling me to scram, it wasn't like I was doing something wrong.

[01:12:29] Erin: They were just like, you need to get out of here, you know, they're just they're like you're dropping in on everybody You don't have any business being here. It was like no, you just don't have any business being here like it was like Maybe they had some internal reason but like I imagine that they didn't because I'm sure they would have told me it as they were Telling me the other terrible things today say

[01:12:49] Tyler: well it must I mean like I find that to be It must be so weird when you're like a grown up learning to surf and then you encounter this whole social stru structure.

[01:12:59] Tyler: Yeah. You know, [01:13:00] an etiquette system that you're not aware of and then all of a sudden you're like, What the fuck?

[01:13:05] Erin: Well, it's also true. I mean, I grew up in Long Beach, so it's like I'm not like Long Beach, California. And so it's not like I'm like the biggest knucklehead when it comes to like self etiquette.

[01:13:13] Erin: I did grow up in like, uh, you know, the middle school I went to was an area where there was You know kids that were not being very good.

[01:13:21] Tyler: Yeah, and

[01:13:22] Erin: so you do learn how to like not be a knucklehead. Yeah, you know in society Because you could get in trouble you get beat up So I didn't know that that existed So it's weird when you encounter it in like surfing and it comes in this like different way because it's like no I've done all the things I was supposed to do and now you're still choosing to like, you know Tell me to scram and it's like I'm playing by all the rules You

[01:13:45] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:13:46] Tyler: Did, um, what do you do now when you see someone learning and making some of those mistakes? Do you, and they happen to drop in or do something to you? How do you deal with that?

[01:13:56] Erin: It kind of, I'll be honest, it kind of depends on my day, how [01:14:00] much like bandwidth I have, um, how egregious it was, um, whether it looks like, I don't know, it looks like they're going to take the information because sometimes you, people don't want to hear that they're doing stuff wrong.

[01:14:13] Erin: So like sometimes you'll see people paddling. And it's real tempting to be like, hey, scoot up a little. And then people just give, you know, just be like, don't tell me what to do. And you're like, hurt. Easy. Like, I get it, but I also get it. Um, but then sometimes you're like, hey, you can't do that. Um, you're gonna hurt somebody.

[01:14:30] Erin: And then some people can take that however they want to take it. And some people take it poorly and they're like, you can't tell me what to do. And I'm like, I'm just telling you now how not to get hurt. Like, I, I, I'm not trying to have a conversation with you. Like, I don't care. And I know that might be harsh, but it's like, I'm not.

[01:14:43] Erin: I'm trying to tell you right now, the thing you did was incredibly dangerous. And if somebody was less skilled, you would have a surfboard to your head. And, and, you should be mindful of that, because I would be mindful of that. I don't like, I've had a surfboard to my head, and you know what? It doesn't look good on my face, [01:15:00] it's permanently there, and I wouldn't do it again.

[01:15:03] Erin: You know, I wouldn't choose it. So it's weird how it's like some people, and it sucks because I know that part of the reason they're taking it harsh is because maybe they don't want to take criticism, or it's also because a lot of people are just telling them to, you know, fuck off.

[01:15:14] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:15:15] Erin: And, and now, instead of hearing advice when advice is given, they just hear.

[01:15:21] Tyler: It's triggered for them.

[01:15:22] Erin: Yeah, it's just triggered for them. So now they're just really apprehensive towards any sort of, you know, helpful advice.

[01:15:28] Tyler: I like to use passive aggressive guilt. I will, I will. I like to be like, Did I do something to you? Did I offend you in some way? Do you not like me? What is it?

[01:15:41] Tyler: What did I do to you?

[01:15:43] Erin: No, I'm a big fan of like, not having the conversation. I will, I will say I did the other, not the other day, but like a bit ago. Um, somebody complained and about, cause they wanted, they dropped in and I was just like, look, you're wrong. And you're gonna, and I told him [01:16:00] I was like, hey, you're gonna go home and you're gonna retell this story and as you're retelling your story, you're gonna realize that I was right and you were wrong and it's gonna mess you up when you're retelling the story because I'm right and you're wrong.

[01:16:12] Erin: You dropped it on me and I was just like, that's it. And I'm not, I kept trying to talk and I was like, I'm done. I don't have anything else to say. Like I'm not trying to argue with people, but you know

[01:16:23] Tyler: Yeah, I I just go for the the guilt, you know, but that's how I learned from my mom

[01:16:30] Erin: I've used different methods throughout the year and I've also not been the best, you know I've also been really really terrible and just leaned right into people being mad And you know i've like Seen that when people were upset, um, about a previous wave and then purposefully have like taken off Knowing that they wanted to go and then when they say something I've like I know I've done this and it's terrible and we're videotaping It but I've been like, what are you gonna do a cry about it?

[01:16:58] Erin: And it's like it's fucked [01:17:00] up And now that I'm older, I'm a little older, I'm like, you know, that was really terrible behavior and it's silly and it's funny, but also it's like awful, awful behavior and I should probably try and do a little better.

[01:17:11] Tyler: It's funny what surfing can do to you sometimes.

[01:17:13] Erin: Yeah, it's really easy to get, become really, because there's no rules, there's no real rules in surfing.

[01:17:19] Erin: There's nobody enforcing them really. But what ends up happening is you're allowed to act however you want to act and so people act however they act and you're like

[01:17:27] Tyler: You can't control it without the

[01:17:29] Erin: societal constraints of like, you know rules and regulations. We

[01:17:33] Tyler: yeah Well, it's it doesn't in today's world.

[01:17:37] Tyler: You can't do with what was once done to regulate it Yeah, and and that wasn't the right answer. Anyway, either. Yeah, it's

[01:17:44] Erin: tough

[01:17:45] Tyler: It's, it is. It is very tough. Like I, I always like try to think of like, how can we manage this because surfing has had such a huge influx of surfer, you know, new people over the last decade and particularly during COVID.

[01:17:59] Tyler: [01:18:00] And I think Uh, particularly during COVID on the West Coast, you've seen a dramatic increase of people surfing and it's, it's hard because you want to, you want to educate, but you also don't want to fall into that trap of being a jerk either, you know, and you want

[01:18:18] Erin: people to be respectful and, and I don't necessarily have.

[01:18:23] Erin: The answer to it. I just know certain methods we've been using in the past are just not it and they don't yield results because if they did, we'd have more better behaved, you know, newcomers and we don't. And so that's how I know that that stuff doesn't work.

[01:18:39] Tyler: Well, it's also starts from some of the older crew who blatantly violate those rules too, and they don't have their respect also.

[01:18:48] Tyler: Yeah, it's hard. It's hard to

[01:18:49] Erin: enforce respect if you're not. Giving it like, it's a weird, it's a weird preface, you know?

[01:18:57] Tyler: If you act entitled to, and you're like, [01:19:00] well, I've been surfing here for 30 years, I'm gonna take this wave regardless. But you have to follow

[01:19:03] Erin: these rules. And it's like, well, that logic doesn't make sense.

[01:19:06] Erin: And so it's hard for people to want to play a game in which the rules don't make sense.

[01:19:09] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:19:10] Erin: You know, it's hard for people to want to participate when they know that they're not giving, getting a winning hand in any scenario, you know?

[01:19:18] Tyler: I feel like, um, surf meetups, surf clubs, surf groups are a great way to combat that.

[01:19:26] Tyler: Yeah. Actually, because they foster community, they, they take away the dehumanization that we all feel when we paddle out. Yeah. You know, like we all paddle out and size each other up, I think. And if you know the person or you've seen that person, they're a member of a certain club that you're a part of or.

[01:19:46] Tyler: some sort of organization, you're less likely to have a confrontation or an issue with them. It's true. And

[01:19:52] Erin: I also think that there's like some accountability that ends up existing, because I know what's happened in like Australia, where like, um, [01:20:00] some people, last time I was over there, some people from Florida were, um, Taking a few too many waves, and being a bit of an People

[01:20:07] Tyler: from Florida taking too many waves?

[01:20:09] Tyler: And that's everybody,

[01:20:10] Erin: we can't, we can't But we can't I

[01:20:12] Tyler: lived in Florida, alright? For this story,

[01:20:14] Erin: it was people in Florida, they were taking too many waves, they were driving the Australians nuts at, over at like Noosa, and so I got There and they're like you need to tell your friends to like cool it and I was like well first of all We're not the same area But also I was like who you know, who was it and they were they told me who it was and I was like actually I know him.

[01:20:32] Erin: I'll tell him to cool it

[01:20:33] Tyler: Yeah,

[01:20:33] Erin: and I did and I think there's something nice about that Is that like if you know other people take accountability for your friends if your friends are being rough and like doing shit That's uncalled for tell them to knock it off Why would, like, I would want, you know, I'd want somebody to do it to me.

[01:20:48] Erin: It would hurt my feelings, obviously. I don't want to be told I'm doing, like, wrong stuff, but, like, I also shouldn't be doing that.

[01:20:54] Tyler: Should Surfline police the lineups?

[01:20:57] Erin: I don't know how they would do that.

[01:20:58] Tyler: With the cameras, you know, [01:21:00] anytime it's dropped in and now you got AI, you could

[01:21:02] Erin: Just scan the face and be like, this person.

[01:21:05] Tyler: This person dropped in, watch out, repeat. Repeat offender here at this spot. Have you seen this person or wanted signs on the surf breaks?

[01:21:14] Erin: It'd be such blurry photos. You would, it would be everybody. Oh, it's a person with like a black wetsuit and the white surfboard. Go get him.

[01:21:21] Tyler: This is, this is something we should discuss with, with, um, Rachel Lord, you know, because of sci fi and all that stuff she likes, so we could like, this would be like a science fiction black mirror future of surfing.

[01:21:34] Tyler: That is her realm

[01:21:35] Erin: for sure. That's not my realm. I'm not a sci fi fan. I'm not not a sci fi fan. I'm just not an AI. Black Mirror or sci fi sort of person, you know?

[01:21:45] Tyler: More into the fantasy sci fi? I love

[01:21:47] Erin: it. I, I'm really enjoying the dystopia that we're living in currently, and I just don't know if I need more.

[01:21:54] Erin: I'm doing just fine right here.

[01:21:58] Tyler: Um, I want to [01:22:00] finish up by asking favorite dessert, or if you had a last dessert.

[01:22:05] Erin: Oh, that's such a good question. What

[01:22:07] Tyler: would it be?

[01:22:08] Erin: I mean, I love ice cream. I do love ice

[01:22:10] Tyler: cream. Yeah. You're a gelato fan, right? Like, you're a big gelato fan, so is there a flavor of gelato that works well for you?

[01:22:17] Erin: Ooh, I love a

[01:22:19] Tyler: sorbetto,

[01:22:20] Erin: um, all the time. So anything, anything like ice and then like fruit based. Um, if I had to choose a flavor, like a daiquiri ice sort of thing would be like my favorite, I think.

[01:22:31] Tyler: I'm going to throw an idea out at you. You can take my idea. Alright.

[01:22:36] Erin: If

[01:22:36] Tyler: you don't like it, you can send it right back.

[01:22:37] Tyler: But this is, this is, this is the, I started, I started, I had this idea for a company years ago and I never followed through on it, but I did make, make a bunch of these flavored waffle cones. Oh yeah. That you would pair with the ice cream. So I did a margarita cone and I took like a sorbet. I took margarita mix, reduced it down to syrup, mixed it into [01:23:00] a liege waffle batter, and then rolled it into the cone, and then took the crown, rolled it in honey, and then put margarita salt around the crown, throw the sorbet in there, and it was like, beautiful flavor.

[01:23:12] Tyler: Yeah. Then did like a chili cone with a dark chocolate, or, you know, there's so many, so many options, you know. Yeah, I

[01:23:19] Erin: feel like it would get hard really fast, but. It's a cool idea.

[01:23:22] Tyler: How fun would that be? It's a pretty fun idea. A little pairing, you know? Like, oh, we're going to serve this gorgeous rose, you know, rosemary sorbet with a, uh, with a fennel cone and That's true.

[01:23:36] Tyler: That'd be

[01:23:36] Erin: good.

[01:23:37] Tyler: Just saying. You should, you should make that. The name of my company was going to be Connoisseur, by the way.

[01:23:43] Erin: I don't know about that. That's, that's rough. That's so rough. A

[01:23:47] Tyler: little too on the nose. Yeah.

[01:23:49] Erin: Yeah, way too on the nose for sure.

[01:23:53] Tyler: Oh, well, Erin, I really appreciate you coming on and having this wide [01:24:00]ranging discussion.

[01:24:00] Tyler: Yeah, I hope somebody learns

[01:24:02] Erin: more. I don't know if there's anything good in there, but I hope you all enjoyed it. Well, I think

[01:24:07] Tyler: the bison part, that's, that's, that's clip worthy right there.

[01:24:11] Erin: Oh yeah. Yeah, that's important. That's very surf related.

[01:24:15] Tyler: Well, um, thank you so much, Aaron. Uh, where can our listeners find you if they want to find your surfing and follow you?

[01:24:22] Erin: Um, my friend robots did a, um, Full length film um, please have fun and I'm in that and I don't know if I've done anything. You could probably just find me at church I'm usually a church the beach not

[01:24:35] Tyler: not not not not the institution, you know, the church of the open sky I might be but I'm

[01:24:40] Erin: not I church of the sea and At seal beach and

[01:24:44] Tyler: your Instagram

[01:24:45] Erin: and my Instagram is worm town

[01:24:46] Tyler: worm town

[01:24:47] Erin: Yeah,

[01:24:48] Tyler: so you could find lots of great little surfing clips there Yeah, there is.

[01:24:53] Tyler: There's some amazing clips on there. great

[01:24:55] Erin: dog. You can look at photos of her.

[01:24:57] Tyler: You have a very adorable dog. Yeah. That's true. [01:25:00] And, um, Yeah, listeners, go check her out. Because, like, her surfing is absolutely stunning. It's beautiful to watch. Very, like, honestly, like, I just want to, like, put that on and just Chill on my couch and have a gummy and relax and watch your surfings.

[01:25:16] Tyler: It's very I

[01:25:17] Erin: appreciate that. It

[01:25:18] Tyler: lowers my blood pressure quite a bit.

[01:25:20] Erin: I like to think it has a point of view, so that's

[01:25:21] Tyler: It definitely does. All

[01:25:22] Erin: I'm really going for, I guess. And having some fun.

[01:25:25] Tyler: Well, I appreciate it very much and, uh, also just got to give another shout out to Joe here, our engineer, who keeps things moving as we are in the new stand studio in Rockefeller Center.

[01:25:38]Tyler:So stoked on that. And of course, uh, you can listen to us and go to swellseasonsurfradio. com or at swellseasonsurfradio and, uh, we'll check you all down the line and hope you enjoy this episode.[01:26:0