[00:00:00] Tyler: [00:01:00] Hello, and welcome to the Swell Season Surf Podcast. I'm your host, Tyler Brewer. If you don't know who Scott Hewlett is, do you even surf? He is the editor of Surfer's Journal from 1999 to 2014, and stayed on as creative editor Since some can argue, he is one of the most important curators of our culture, especially during his tenure, which was an exciting time of drastic changes in our sport.

[00:01:53] The Surfers Journal has been the Go-to for cool, insightful articles with incredible history [00:02:00] and inspirations. It's perhaps one of the few surf magazines to still print and publish a physical magazine in the us. They survived the cull and have evolved since, adding new video series to complement the articles and incredible podcasts hosted by the lovable Jamie Brissett.

[00:02:19] I first met Scott at the Canadian Surf Film Festival in Nova Scotia way back in 2011. We were jury members and And I can honestly say I couldn't have been more starstruck and stoked to meet him. The only way I can describe meeting Scott was that he was cool as fuck. Able to speak on highbrow subjects such as wine and art, but he carries a blue collar, humble air about him.

[00:02:44] No judgments, no attitude, no bullshit. Extremely encouraging and someone you feel at ease with right away. My impression of his writing is that he gives off Hemingway vibes, but with a lighter, more conscientious and [00:03:00] awareness to him. His writing style has powerful short descriptions that say more than what is written.

[00:03:06] The subtext is baked in without any forcefulness. He's a great admirer of those who make something that's exceedingly difficult, look exceedingly easy, and I would argue his writing does just that. It flows so seamlessly, but it's so easy to forget how hard it is to do in writing. It really can only come from years and years of writing, and rewriting, and rewriting again.

[00:03:33] Scott has recently released an omnibus of his work over the years. It's called Flow Violento, and it is a beautiful exploration of his travels south of the border. It's filled with compelling observations, surfing musings, and some eye popping fishing tales. Flow Violento is published by the Surfer's Journal.

[00:03:56] And I highly recommend all of you go buy this. It's a [00:04:00] freaking beautiful, awesome book. And Scott is my guest on this episode of the swell season podcast. Scott, welcome to the show.

[00:04:09] Scott: Wow. Great. What a preamble. Your dulcet tones and, you know, research. I'm in awe.

[00:04:22] Tyler: Well, thank you. I, I aim to put people at ease and then, uh, you know, hit him with the one too,

[00:04:27] Scott: Yeah, I, I'm clenching, believe me.

[00:04:31] Tyler: um, It's awesome to have you, Scott. You know, um, our, our common friend Mike Matcher and I, we have this fun thing, little inside joke, where we don't call you Hewlett, we call you Hew lay. Uh, we, we drop the T a little bit, and then I made the mental jump now, whenever I think of your name, I for some reason think of Will Farrell's skit where he plays Bob Goulet singing hip hop songs, and he's like, Goulet!

[00:04:59] So now [00:05:00] whenever I talk to Mike, I'm like, Goulet!

[00:05:03] Scott: Wow.

[00:05:04] Tyler: Yeah, I know. Sorry.

[00:05:06] Scott: No, it's good. You know, originally that was the pronunciation.

[00:05:10] Tyler: It

[00:05:10] Scott: Yeah. My people are from, uh, Alsace, the Alsatian, uh, region, region between France and Switzerland. So that makes a weird sort of sense, I guess.

[00:05:23] Tyler: Why? Why? Why not keep the the pretension going with who lay?

[00:05:27] Scott: Oh, I haven't asked that in spades, believe me.

[00:05:32] Tyler: So I want to, I mean, this book is great. And I but I want to talk about one little thing first, just a real fun little thing. It's 1981, you were 19 and you just moved to North shore for a year. Look, it sounds like, and it's the year Simon Anderson reveals the thruster design. I was curious if you can describe what the reaction was to that design over that winter, you know, when you [00:06:00] were there and like how, what the vibe was and the energy and gossip and talk and all that sort of stuff.

[00:06:06] I've, I've always like, you know, we've read about it. My brother and I have talked about it. We never. I feel like there's nothing out there, and maybe there is, maybe you have in the surface, you know, I just missed it, but like, where it really encapsulates the change that happened that winter and the impact that design had.

[00:06:22] All

[00:06:39] Scott: Mark Richards won, obviously not on a thruster, but, uh, Simon was there as was Derek Hynde, who I met for the first time at Foo's house.

[00:06:49] And, uh, Derek was writing for Simon. Had an energy single fin, I believe. Um, and yeah, that's all I really remember. [00:07:00] It hadn't really taken root, the tri fin, until the thruster, until the next season.

[00:07:07] Tyler: Wow. All right. All right. I was just curious. I thought I would start with a little reminiscing. How was that winter when you were there? Like?

[00:07:18] Scott: it was a standard issue, North Shore winner. Um, I had a couple of good boards. I had a really nice Parrish, a seven, six. Pintail Parish, well beyond my station or ability to really utilize it, but it was nice to have. And, uh, yeah, I just kind of, uh, delved, uh, delved around, uh, sideways spots. I would surf Monster Mash, Rocky Point, Laniakea, Chuns, You know, kind of, uh, dodging anything serious and any beat downs, you know, it was a different world then.

[00:07:58] Tyler: Those are the spots I [00:08:00] mostly hung out at too.

[00:08:01] Scott: Yeah.

[00:08:02] Tyler: Monster Mush is a fun wave. I don't care what anyone says.

[00:08:05] Scott: Yeah. I surfed that with Hackman and John Brazen. Um, and we posted up at Peter Cole's house right in front. So I did get to interact, um, with some heroic figures.

[00:08:21] Tyler: Yeah, I wanna, I mean, your book is beautiful and really well done and the stories in it are, are, are great. And I was just curious, like, first, like, When did you start making the trips down to Mexico and other parts of Latin America? When did that start to really take root for you?

[00:08:43] Scott: Well, the provenance happened. When I was three or four years old, my grandpa had a little cabina on the bluff at, uh, at, uh, Campo Lopez in Baja Norte. And I'd go down with my dad and mom. [00:09:00] And, uh, so, you know, it started immediately and, um, the smells and the freedom were dripping, even as a child, you felt that you see your dad tense up a little, it's across the border.

[00:09:14] And, uh, go on, you know, yellow alert. And, uh, that just transferred right into my conscious, like a hot wire.

[00:09:26] Tyler: What do you mean by like, so he would be on alert, but you said there was like freedom there. Like, what do you mean by that? Can you expand on what type of freedom you were feeling, as opposed to back home? Mm

[00:09:43] Scott: the window and pull the tab on a Takate, you know, he wouldn't do that at home. So I go, okay, something's different. He relaxed, but had a little, um, awareness lift also. I felt that as a [00:10:00] seven, 10, 12 year old. With my dad.

[00:10:04] Tyler: Uh, what is it that appeals, appeals to you about that area, about that whole, the Latin America for, for, for better, you know, for better kind of conversation? Because you, you know, you cover a lot of those travels in a lot of those areas in your books. It's not just Mexico. And I was curious, like, what, what is the appeal to you?

[00:10:24] Scott: Oh boy. It's so manifold. It's all over the shop. I love the history Obviously and the older I get the more I delve Into the conquest and uh pre contact days How that is infused with modernity right now that sounds high minded, but you feel it when you're there Um, the, the, um, differences in Mexico between, uh, Southern Mexico and that corn culture and Northern Mexico and that wheat culture or flower culture.

[00:10:57] You eat it. Um, [00:11:00] you, you sweat in it. It's everything.

[00:11:04] Tyler: I got a sense though, and from like your writing, but also like your other conversations you've had, like, I feel like you like also the little bit of danger that comes with it.

[00:11:19] Scott: I,

[00:11:19] Tyler: sense that you kind of, you, you, you thread that needle a little bit, or you walk up to, or as Michael Ho said, you walk up to the edge, you curl over, you look at it, and then go back.

[00:11:32] Scott: I'm not a danger tourist at all. Um, yeah, I mean, I, I avoid consciously any conflict, but I do like the nighttime. And I do like Latin cities, so I guess you rub up against that naturally. And I, I travel alone

[00:11:52] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:11:53] Scott: and meet friends there and, or have friends there. And there would be Ecuador, Peru, the DR, [00:12:00] Cuba, like that.

[00:12:03] Tyler: Do you, uh, Uh, So, I mean, I don't know, like your Sinaloa story there that was like, I want to kind of read the quote actually, I really love this from Tranquilla La Plaza section, where We stick out like boar teats with our racked boards. This is a district where it pays to have your hackles pricked, your ears to the ground, and from David Mamet Spartan, your motherfucker's set to receive.

[00:12:33] In the dicier parts of the rural Mexico, situational awareness is an art. It's having eyes in the back of your heads while appearing nonchalant, like you don't care what befalls you. This attitude will provide some window of escape should fate come knocking. The sort of surprise defense relied on by hedgehogs and puffer fish.

[00:12:53] An only, an only hope type of thing. Our crew performs the most natural human response to [00:13:00] uneasiness, nervous laughter. And I, I love that, but I, I don't know, reading that I'm like, this guy kind of is enjoying a little bit of this thrill, it felt like.

[00:13:10] Scott: Well, Tyler, you've tried to score on the projects. Same deal.

[00:13:20] Tyler: True, true. No, actually, you know what? No, I, I, I would buy from upscale actually. I would get the delivery to me. I, I, I, I don't know. There's a romanticness to it, I guess. You know, like I, I know my, from my experience traveling, like I always kind of felt like I fucking kind of enjoyed, you know, traveling.

[00:13:44] feeling a little bit of that danger, or feeling like I'm being a bit swashbuckling by going through these places, even though it probably was mundane and not as, as dangerous as I want to give credence to, but it obviously it does sound better when [00:14:00] it's written that way.

[00:14:01] Scott: Yeah, I wasn't playing that up. You know, uh, Mazatlan itself is very safe.

[00:14:06] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:14:07] Scott: Actually, it's undersung. It's a great time to go there right now because people are sketched. But, um, North of there, um, you know, from, uh, Mazatlan north to Kulikan and Al Tata, the estuary to some point. Downstream from there and up to Los Mochis and Topolobompo.

[00:14:30] Those are beautiful places, but you know, you're being watched, you know, for sure because they have business to do, big business and you want to present yourself as exactly who you are, a stupid gringo with a board on the roof going surfing, going to play. You'll generally be cool. In that light.

[00:14:54] Tyler: How has it changed over the years? You know, I mean, obviously [00:15:00] the media fee, I feel like the media has, has at times like, you know, blew up how dangerous it is and it's gone through different cycles. And I'm curious, like from your years of travel, what, what do you, have you seen change and what has kind of stayed the same almost?

[00:15:18] Scott: Well, the major, um, deduct has been the increase in population, of course. And when you talk about the media portrayals, are you talking surf or general?

[00:15:30] Tyler: mainstream media,

[00:15:31] Scott: Yeah. Yeah. You know, if it bleeds, it leads. So obviously they're going to run the hits, you know,

[00:15:39] Tyler: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:45] Scott: that it changes every.

[00:15:49] iteration of the controlling cartel there from, you know, El Mayo.

[00:15:56] Tyler: feel a difference from cartel to cartel [00:16:00] over the time periods, do you think?

[00:16:02] Scott: No, I'm not that aware. I just know when my friends who live there tell me, eh, better to avoid that place right now.

[00:16:11] Tyler: Yeah. Wait, like you had that, those Australians recently who unfortunately passed away. Like, do you, do you think it's any more dangerous now or less?

[00:16:27] Scott: Well, it's, there's some regionality and unfortunately for those guys, they, they were in an area that is traditionally not a good place to camp. Um, I don't, I don't enjoy that region between San Quentin and Ensenada. I wouldn't camp there. Um, and, you know, they ran the odds and probably had a little fun and unfortunately.

[00:16:59] Things are [00:17:00] really, really sideways.

[00:17:02] Tyler: Yeah, it's, it's really sad. It's always, I guess, because here in New York, we're so far removed. We're not even close to that border and all you're getting are just the details from wherever you hear it, whether it's social media or whatever. And it's always like. Oh, Mexico all of a sudden seems really sketchy and, you know, but that happens like every few years, I feel like it, like something happens, an incident where gringo surfers have been in the wrong place, wrong time, just kind of situation.

[00:17:36] And I think, you know, I'm sure most Mexicans probably say, man, it's really dangerous in the U S are you sure you want to go there instead? I do.

[00:17:46] Scott: Yeah. Yeah. My Mexican friends in, in Sonata are heartbroken over that recent occurrence. And, uh, they would agree, uh, if it's going to happen, that [00:18:00] area where they were has, you know, decent odds of it occurring and, but also you don't hear about surfers camping at El Capitan in California, getting extinguished boat.

[00:18:18] That, that would be a rare deal. And fortunately it's a little more wide open.

[00:18:24] Tyler: yeah, you just hear it in our schools instead,

[00:18:27] Scott: There you go.

[00:18:29] Tyler: I, have you ever had any instances like that or have it had any, any close calls?

[00:18:36] Scott: Over hundreds of trips, very, very rarely. Um, I had one deal where this was 10 years ago, traveling in central Baja, three and a half hours off road. It takes to get where I go in the back country. And I had my wife [00:19:00] and daughter with me. My daughter was maybe. 10 years old. So maybe 20 years ago. Um, and, uh, in the middle of the desert, we hadn't seen a human for hours and hours and a Humvee, uh, Humvee crossed the, uh, the dry lake ahead of us.

[00:19:20] And I just stopped my vehicle and told the girls just follow my lead, stay in the car, and it was, uh, Marina detachment, the military. on drug interdiction. But what they really do is they clear everyone out off that coastline because a shipment is coming. And they checked us out and they made my wife and daughter get out of the car.

[00:19:47] And the Lieutenant Castillo, I'll never forget his nameplate, um, marched my 10 year old daughter off into the cactus and there [00:20:00] was nothing I could do. Total helplessness. And, uh, thankfully, after searching, My truck, they let us reconvene, nothing occurred. Everything was cool. It was like a shit test that we're doing on me to see if I literally shit maybe.

[00:20:21] And, uh, we held it together and off we went, but that I felt that was a super close call.

[00:20:32] Tyler: terrifying.

[00:20:33] Scott: Yeah.

[00:20:33] Tyler: I can't even, I can't even fathom, like, what must have been racing through your head.

[00:20:39] Scott: Yeah. It had my attention.

[00:20:43] Tyler: It had your attention, to say the least. Did you, uh, did you score any waves after that, at least?

[00:20:51] Scott: It was on the way out and we had, yeah. Great fishing, fun surf, sun. Didn't see a human. It was great.[00:21:00]

[00:21:02] Tyler: Flo Violento. Violent Flo. What's in the name? What's the root of it?

[00:21:08] Scott: Uh, that's, uh, noted in my intro. Uh, Flo,

[00:21:12] Tyler: for the listeners.

[00:21:14] Scott: they put a u on the end of Flo,

[00:21:17] Tyler: Flow.

[00:21:17] Scott: um, that's a Cuban phrase, or Puerto Rican from reggaeton, and it means mad style.

[00:21:25] Tyler: heh.

[00:21:30] Scott: it means they're dripping in style.

[00:21:34] Tyler: I like that. I like that. With this book, then, were you, like, I had heard that you were potentially talking to some other publishers, and then it ended up with the Surfer's Journal. What went into putting this all together? And what, what is that process? Because it was, you were pitched. Or, or from like what I was reading, like to quote [00:22:00] you, the idea of another surf book, more surfing stories, more surf content, further additions to the groaning and overburdened bridge of it all gave you pause, but focusing on Mexico and other points in Latin America, the places that inform, that haunt, and that sustain all of my lifelong love for the near shore life gave me a hook I could believe in.

[00:22:21] When did that, Come into focus with putting this together and how did that kind of kind of evolve as you were thinking about doing this book?

[00:22:30] Scott: Yeah, well, originally I did have a collection, uh, of mostly surfing, uh, pieces from the past. Um, and like you, uh, read, I gave it new focus and trimmed it down and it's not all surfers journal pieces at all. So if you want to buy it. And they're reticent because you think you've read it all. You haven't.

[00:22:56] There's a lot of travel writing and, uh, [00:23:00] uh, coastal culture and fishing based, but not only for fishermen stories in there that'll inform your understanding, I hope, of, uh, Mexico, South America, the Caribbean.

[00:23:16] Tyler: Would you ever consider writing a full, like, narrative style book at all?

[00:23:21] Scott: Oh, of course.

[00:23:22] Tyler: Yeah? You got any ideas? Yeah.

[00:23:24] Scott: we have been, I've been battling with a couple long form nonfiction.

[00:23:30] Tyler: Yeah, non

[00:23:31] Scott: no fiction.

[00:23:32] Tyler: Fiction.

[00:23:33] Scott: Yeah,

[00:23:34] Tyler: I feel like we, we need more fiction in surfing. There's not enough, kind of, fun. Or, everything is, most fiction that I see in surfing has been focused almost on noir. Or some sort of, kind of, noir, kind of crime esque something along those lines. It's in Or, or it's a meditation on surfing where it's [00:24:00] philosophical.

[00:24:01] Um, and I feel like those are the only two avenues I really see, or it's a historical type of thing.

[00:24:08] Scott: sure, sure. I think there's, you know, there's room for the great topics, you know, love and war. And yeah, and surfing wants to be a quick hit, an element, not the driving force for a novel or a screenplay in the way that you show the gun in act one and use it in the final act. That's all the surfing you need.

[00:24:33] Tyler: Well, it should always be the vehicle, never the story. You know, you can, you can hide. You can put the the surface level of surf like anything about surfing almost feels boring Let me ask you this, Scott. Did you, did you, do you ever just get sick and tired of reading about surfing? Did it, did it just drive you nuts?

[00:24:56] Like over the years where you're just like, I [00:25:00] can't read another person talking about how they went on this trip and had this life changing experience and came back and everything was great. Or, you know, I don't know, like I would imagine it, it would get kind of monotonous over time. There's only so much. Differentiation you can find sometimes.

[00:25:21] Scott: Uh, yes and no. No, because I'm, I've always, you know how surfing is. It infuses every Molecule of your interest. And I was a total surf magazine hound from 15 till four years ago. Um, No, I, I'll never tire of first person accounts of surf travel, well rendered [00:26:00] and surprising. It doesn't have to be a new discovery, just a well told, surprising, um, dripping account.

[00:26:10] I get those from people like Steve Shear.

[00:26:13] Tyler: yeah, yeah, I love his writing. His writing is so cutting and strong and like, there's, there's something about, there's an edge to it, which I love, know, there's a little bit of a begrudgingness to his writing in some ways, I feel like. At least the stuff I saw on BeachGrit, you know, when he did it.

[00:26:37] Scott: solid fisherman, Steve. Yeah, if the rocks were for a tuna and such, he's, he's keen. In fact, I paid him at one point with a new Daiwa spinning rail. You couldn't find, or they were overpriced in Australia.

[00:26:55] Tyler: Oh wow. That's one way to, [00:27:00] uh, get around, uh, having to pay the taxes, I guess, and all that.

[00:27:04] Scott: Yes, there's myriad ways to butter muffins,

[00:27:10] Tyler: How, what was that process like in SJ then, like how, how did you go about like sourcing the writing? Were you going out asking people to write things? Obviously you get submissions. How does that vetting process, you know, happen?

[00:27:28] Scott: you know, at the birth of the journal up until the early 2000s, you had so much coming at you because there was, you know, there was no social media. Um, there were no real web, you know, the website scene was nascent blogging such. So you had the best of the best coming at you. It felt like, and there was still a.

[00:27:56] Surf industrial complex and people [00:28:00] doing sponsored trips that would be, uh, there would be killed or the only use the logo hit, hit photos, shit we don't like, and I could call from that and build issues from that nowadays it's much more assignment driven and we have a roster of media eater, meat eaters, writers, and shooters alike who we go to.

[00:28:28] Tyler: Well, being kind of one of the only, you know, publications around too, it must be like the pick of the litter now for you guys.

[00:28:40] Scott: Ah, you would think so, but Um, you know, it's, there's no money, there's little money in it.

[00:28:49] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:28:49] Scott: So for most people, they might as well just, uh, pop it on Instagram with a caption.

[00:28:56] Tyler: [00:29:00] Mm

[00:29:03] Scott: I can get this in GSJ because they know it's a legacy play, you know, and we'll offer the highest and best use.

[00:29:13] In design, reproduction, construction, editing, all that.

[00:29:21] Tyler: I, I'm curious, like, what it was like being at the journal when all the publications started to fold?

[00:29:34] Scott: Oh,

[00:29:34] Tyler: was, like, that climate like in the office there?

[00:29:40] Scott: we're at a remove because we're not ad group driven. No, we weren't clenching too much, but neither were, were we thrilled or happy? Because if you have a restaurant, you want to be in a district with other good restaurants and, uh, [00:30:00] watching them shudder gave pause, of course.

[00:30:04] Tyler: I'm curious, like, how, I wonder, like, how Pesman, you know, and I'm sure you'll be like, talk to Pesman, but, um, But his reaction must have been really I would imagine it would have been a more emotional as Surfer closed because of his history there as publisher and you know, like Selling it must have been a difficult thing and then to see it, you know a couple decades later fold must have been kind of emotional, no?

[00:30:35] Scott: It was for certain, but it didn't, it didn't happen like a calving glacier.

[00:30:42] Tyler: Yeah

[00:30:42] Scott: Had watched them erode through a few regime changes and, uh, you know, it was coming, it was, it was sad. Everything has a life cycle, [00:31:00] including me and this, uh, TSJ and my book. They have life cycles.

[00:31:08] Tyler: Yeah, I'm also curious, like you were, you had said to David on your interview with him, you know, by the way, listeners, he interviewed with David Lee scales. I highly recommend you check out that interview as well. They go very deep into some things, but you talk about how you tried to beat, you Debarney longboarding, basically, when you, you became the editor of longboard magazine and make it appealing and vaguely intelligent, but you said you failed, but it was fun.

[00:31:37] And I'm curious, like, why do you think you failed? I thought you did a phenomenal job as an editor. I thought there was some great articles and great pieces in there. And I'm curious, like what you thought didn't work. And also. On top of that, like, what do you wish you could have done differently?

[00:31:56] Scott: Oh, great question. Um, yeah, that was a [00:32:00] cul de sac that David and I kind of drifted into. Um,

[00:32:04] Tyler: wonderful one, by the way.

[00:32:06] Scott: thank you. Thank him actually. Um, yeah, that was a harsh assessment by me to say, you know, longboarding was lame and it was up to me to make it better. But, um, the, just like here, I don't give a rat's ass about competition.

[00:32:27] And pop stars and flavors of the week. I like vibrational, artful, ballsy studies of surfing. And when you're on a, you know, when you have staff members around you, they have other interests and, um, they were different from mine and, uh, God bless them, you know, everyone has a, a dream. But, uh, Yeah, I think we only

[00:32:58] Tyler: [00:33:00] Yeah.

[00:33:03] Scott: of tank riding in glancing blows.

[00:33:08] So I look back and I go, Ooh, I wish, wish I could have done this or that, or.

[00:33:15] Tyler: what from that experience did you take in with you then to the SJ and what was that like when you came into the SJ to edit like did first did it live up to your expectations and succeed those expectations and did you have like I'm going in with this mindset of I'm going to do this or I want to try to do this or influence this or Was it more I'm going to see how they do things and let them go and flow with it kind of attitude

[00:33:45] Scott: Yeah, I understand. Um, yeah, I didn't come in to the journal with my chest out at all. It was philosophically, I'm akin to a Steve's point of view. He formed mine, [00:34:00] you know, as a teenager. So that was brilliant. There were things I didn't like and would try to adjust a little bit. And I did.

[00:34:11] Tyler: I I, I wonder though, then like you talked to Dave about this, like how you, the Surfer's Journal, it's this whole, um, it's more of a collaborative kind of like, uh, I think you referenced like jazz band type of atmosphere where it's more bouncing off of each other as opposed to one person really driving it.

[00:34:36] Is that kind of how you would describe how that working environment was?

[00:34:42] Scott: Yes, and that came from the top. That's very much Pesman, uh, Pesman's, um, style. To carefully assemble a handful of teammates and give them space. And, uh, and he [00:35:00] gives respect. So, what do you do? You know, you give it right back, and it fades. So, it was beautiful.

[00:35:09] Tyler: do you feel like you just won the lotto by getting that job?

[00:35:13] Scott: Well, no, like I joke, you know, any magazine is a, any writing endeavor for the most part, you're taking up a vow of poverty. But, Yeah, so, uh, lottery wise, no, but, um, uh, in terms of how we get to live every day, I, yes.

[00:35:37] Tyler: does it like I guess like, I don't know, like I, I would be over the moon to have like a position like that because it, and, but I would probably, I feel like I would be very much aware of the influence that SJ has. I probably would trip over myself with self [00:36:00] consciousness questioning. Is this good for, for the SJ?

[00:36:04] Is this up to SJ standard? Like, did, what, were there any doubts? Was there any sort of insecurities as you went into it and feeling like, uh, do, or did you feel the pressure of being the editor of SJ and kind of, all of us kind of hung on to how you edited that magazine, basically.

[00:36:22] Scott: I really didn't, Tyler, because, you know, yeah, I wasn't spreading, like I said, I just, you know, I wasn't, uh, a kid. I was 30, 29, 30, I don't know, you

[00:36:33] Tyler: Dude, I'm 45 and I still fucking nerd out, you know, and geek out, like,

[00:36:38] Scott: you could. That's our goal. And yours too. Um, yeah, so no, it felt, uh, super comfortable, you know, Pez and I would surf, uh, two, three times a week together, hike into the trestle. And, uh, take a long lunch, come back, review [00:37:00] photos with, uh, Jeff Devine and Bill Riches.

[00:37:05] Tyler: Was it ever, was it, would you say the, the pace of work was that kind of mellow steady pace or did it ever get like intense, like crunch time when you hit the deadlines?

[00:37:18] Scott: Yeah, you know, like a lot of life, it became, uh, musical chairs because when I started, it was a quarterly. And then they checked me out and it was all working and they said, Ooh, we'll add an issue. And that, uh, the, uh, members. Supported that, then it went bi monthly, so the business grew, and the pace quickened, and the challenges rose.

[00:37:49] So that's where, you know, we're in a comfortable place right now. We have the best edit team I've ever had the pleasure of working with. Yeah, the four or [00:38:00] five of us are in sync, like, tight as. Yeah, it's, yeah, yeah, it's just one of those, it's like one of those legendary periods in time where everyone is playing their best right now, I think.

[00:38:20] Yeah,

[00:38:22] Tyler: a slack or a chat channel? I would love to see those, those comments and how the back and forth is.

[00:38:32] Scott: yeah, Slack, Asana, messages, IG, DMs, you know, smoke signals, green noises, everything.

[00:38:46] Tyler: It's nice to know that you're using some great software as well. Uh, can I interest you? I'll tell you about some CRMs as well for your sales team. And, uh,

[00:38:58] Scott: I'm not in that [00:39:00] lane.

[00:39:05] Tyler: the next thing is then like, how do you, and this is something I struggled with and I couldn't, I don't, I couldn't really do it is making surfing my work. Uh, making the, making it the 24 seven vocation that is all consuming in nature. And. You know, and it's like, you go to release, like surfing is your release, but it all of a sudden has become your stress as well.

[00:39:31] And it's become your everything. How do you manage that? And how do you keep yourself? regulated, I guess, or not getting too carried away with it. Like I've seen numerous people who've gone into the surf industry and surf publishing even, and they, they almost get carried away with their own kind of, you know, shit or carried up, carried up with all the pro surfers or the legends even like, how do you keep yourself grounded amongst that as well?

[00:39:59] Scott: Well, I [00:40:00] make sure I have a broad set of interests that are beyond the scope of surfing.

[00:40:06] Tyler: Yeah. Go on. What are the, I mean,

[00:40:11] Scott: Well,

[00:40:12] Tyler: what do you use? Like, what are, besides fishing, like, are there other, what are the other activities that keep you from that?

[00:40:19] Scott: I, I, I, I enjoy cuisine. I enjoy art. I enjoy reading. Obviously I enjoy writing beyond the scope of surfing. Although

[00:40:32] Tyler: Do you, and did surfing feel like it became too much for you at that time, at working there? Did you ever feel like over it or sick of it?

[00:40:42] Scott: surfing is in a, in a really weird place right now, as far as it's public. Iterations, you know, with social and the everyone surfs deal, especially in California and surf schools and organized surfing and [00:41:00] the, uh, the, uh, WCT. All these things that don't really give a wit about, but thankfully what we cover, for lack of a better term, that the journal avoids all of that, you know, now, and then we'll dip in as you know.

[00:41:21] WTF kind of way,

[00:41:23] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:41:24] Scott: but, uh, yeah, it, yeah, it's in a weird place. I would also argue you have zero excuse to be bummed by that

[00:41:35] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:41:35] Scott: because you can just leave, you know, not leave Earth and go somewhere. And, uh, it's a big world and it's a good one.

[00:41:46] Tyler: Well, you mentioned just a little while ago that you, you kind of stopped reading and surfing almost in some ways, four years ago. What sparked that change then? And what was

[00:41:57] Scott: I had a life event actually, but [00:42:00] it was, uh, it coincided in a weird way. Okay. With the pandemic, right before the pandemic, I suffered a stroke, um, and that really made me recalibrate because I had to reassess who I was and what I thought, and will I make it? It was a dramatic event and a therapy and a hard work allowed me to claw my way back.

[00:42:32] Um, but that's what's, you know, that had something to do with it. So I, my mind kind of fractalized into all the sideways studies I love. And a few of them were not search based.

[00:42:48] Tyler: So what, like, I believe I, I was reading it, you had infarto cerebral, was that, uh,

[00:42:55] Scott: that's called a stroke.

[00:42:56] Tyler: Yeah, yeah. I didn't know if there was something more, but you [00:43:00] also then suffer from aphasia from that. Is

[00:43:02] Scott: Of course. Yeah. That's a leftover. Aphasia is, if those, for those who don't know, it's a, uh, signal of brain damage where my brain doesn't connect to my lips. So you'll find yourself slurring like an aging congressman or something. Which is disconcerting. Um, but I'm, I'm back more or less. I give myself like a 94%. Um,

[00:43:34] Tyler: the recovery for that and how, how long did that take?

[00:43:38] Scott: it was gnarly, you know, at first I couldn't say my name, I couldn't speak, I couldn't write. The right side of my body went away. That, uh, came back rapidly, day after day, with, uh, PT and speech therapy and all that. Uh, it took me, I was, I was back at the journal the first [00:44:00]time, maybe a week after. Just to show that I could, you know, I needed that.

[00:44:07] Tyler: Did you Did you experience any sort of depression from it? Or any sort of emotional angst?

[00:44:16] Scott: Oh, you know, in the 3am moments now and then I wake up and go, Ooh. What is this? Yeah. Who wouldn't?

[00:44:26] Tyler: Yeah. Did And how long were you out of the water for?

[00:44:31] Scott: Oh boy. In a way, I still am. I mean, I'm bonding and body surfing and I'm on the water and fishing. I've, I surfed a couple of times last week in Florida and, uh, the last point wave I surfed was in October. So I'm, I'm crawling back in slow, slow motion, mostly because of lack of confidence after my three events, not just the stroke.

[00:44:57] So yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, uh, [00:45:00] burbling back to the surface like an artesian spring right now.

[00:45:05] Tyler: Does What did not surfing for you do to you, do you think? Or do for you? it

[00:45:13] Scott: It did nothing for me. Um,

[00:45:15] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:45:16] Scott: my fear was that Now that I was bootless and on unhorsed, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to crawl back on.

[00:45:26] Tyler: Do you, do you, like, I feel like we as surfers identify with surfers. It's a big portion of who we are and our personalities and how we self identify. Um, You know, and I always wonder what happens to me when you take surfing out of the equation, when it's not part of your everyday anymore. Um, and you almost start to question whether you are a surfer anymore, and then that makes you question who you are and what your [00:46:00] interests are.

[00:46:00] And I'm curious, like, if that had crossed your mind at all, and did it, did it make you question your, your, your idea of self, even?

[00:46:11] Scott: Yeah, that's a fair question. A good one. Um, you know, we put so much stock in being core. Okay. Because you, you grew up thinking that's the end all and be all in the ultimate measure,

[00:46:25] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:46:26] Scott: coreness, and there's some truth to that level of commitment being a and

[00:46:33] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:46:34] Scott: will be. And, uh, you have to realize, like, uh, Severson taught me, towards the end, just trimming out body surfing, um, you can get sated in a way that makes you realize you're, you're always a surfer.

[00:46:56] And when I'll, I'll be, uh, stand up [00:47:00] surfing on a surfboard again. Like last week, um, you, you don't feel like cheering. You just know it's who you are, you know, forever.

[00:47:11] Tyler: I always think about the Jason Bort experiment when he went like a year without surfing and he kind of realized he had some self awareness. You know, it came to him like, Oh, I'm more than this. I'm more than just surfing and who I am. And I can, he, he came to the conclusion, I believe that he could live a life without surfing if it happened, you know?

[00:47:34] And it's always something I, I've always liked. Try to approach and think about because it was so ingrained from such a young age, you know, the surfing like, holy shit, like when you were a teenager, you kind of knew who you were right because of surfing. Like surfing, you're like, I'm a surfer. This is who I am.

[00:47:58] And when you're a teenager and most other [00:48:00] teenagers are insecure and looking for, uh, some sort of identity or trying to be something, surfing was that kind of like, you know, bedrock. I imagine for me, I imagine for you as well. And that must be a strange thing kind of, till all of a sudden be like, Oh, maybe that's not me.

[00:48:19] I don't know.

[00:48:21] Scott: Not an issue with me. I have always been an odd duck in social strata and surfing really rewards that. So when I was young, it was natural to, um, find surfing because, um, surfing used to embrace. All fellow travelers, you know,

[00:48:44] Tyler: Mm hmm.

[00:48:45] Scott: odd ducks, literal travelers, readers, um, DGNs, crims, everyone.

[00:48:54] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:48:55] Scott: different now, but that's,

[00:48:58] Tyler: What are your thoughts on the current state of [00:49:00] surfing now? Do you, I mean, you, like you said, like it, you could just turn it off or you can walk away and go somewhere else or whatever, but it, I'm curious, like, of your assessment of the health of, uh, surfing and the surf world, surf industry, surf culture.

[00:49:16] Scott: uh, there's, those are very different,

[00:49:18] Tyler: Yeah,

[00:49:19] Scott: uh, little lanes. Um, Hey, there's just so much of it, you know, it's everywhere. And being California, I don't know, I can't speak to a New York, but, um, it's so mass in its appeal. And, uh, noise. And, uh, it's just, it's, you know, can look like too much sometimes. But, uh, so we have,

[00:49:46] Tyler: Yeah, I just feel like it to me, like it's, I, I, I feel like, I don't know, like I was thinking about this the other day, like I'm, I'm starting to approach middle age. My brother says, [00:50:00] you know, at 45, that's technically middle age. So I'm there and I'm starting to see like these cycles happen where new young surfers come up.

[00:50:12] They become. You know, peak, you know, prime, prime surfer of the pecking order in the lineup. They have their glow. Then as they get older and the life responsibilities happen, they kind of go into this whole, maybe a little bit more resentful towards the change in surfing. And they start to look frown upon the younger surfers and then.

[00:50:34] Younger surfers kind of doing the same thing and then it kind of cycles. And I'm curious if you've seen that kind of cycle and your thoughts on that type of cycle and surfing has the, as the more has changed, has the more stayed the same,

[00:50:49] Scott: wow. Um, no,

[00:50:52] Tyler: getting deep here, we're

[00:50:53] Scott: no, no, I get it. Um, yeah, I'm not aware enough actually to [00:51:00] look at surfing through that, uh, long lens really. Um, obviously everything comes in cycles, um, young to old throughout the eras. But, uh, I just trust that already. I know that's going to happen. Um, and I, I, I just indulge the parts of surfing that I love and they're not sociological normally, my interest doesn't lie there, so I'm not a good guy to query Yeah,

[00:51:35] Tyler: I don't know. It's, it's, I don't know. Like I see, it's funny because as, as I've gotten older, the guys who I grew up surfing with, many of them complain about the changes in surfing, but then, but then I see, and then I talked to some young guys and they're doing a surf trip and they've saved up money and they're going to Indo or wherever.

[00:51:56] And I look at that and I'm like, Oh, that's, I [00:52:00] did that. That's. Nothing has changed. Everything has changed, but nothing has changed, almost, when it comes to surfing, I think.

[00:52:07] Scott: I think, yeah, of course. And I count on that happening is so I don't expend thought and study. I should, as an editor sort, I'm sure, but my appeals of surfing are the same things that appeal to me in life. And that's, you know, things like freedom, beauty, adventure, things like that.

[00:52:33] Tyler: I'm curious SJ, like, um, Like, I think you stated, you stated in David's interview, there's no real way to make a living as a surf journalist, at least not like it was like 20 years ago.

[00:52:50] Scott: Mm.

[00:52:52] Tyler: I don't know. To me, it feels weird that surfing is so popular and so mass in some ways, but there's [00:53:00] no way of supporting journalism and surfing or proper journalism even, or, or even a publication other than, you know, a couple, a handful now, and it seems weird almost that, you know, Do you think it's because we haven't figured out a new model to meet the new landscape?

[00:53:20] Or do you think it's just the way the world is now, and it's just part of a bigger issue?

[00:53:26] Scott: Yeah. Tyler, we, you know, suffered or are enjoying, uh, a revolution that digital world exploded, like the, you know, like thete steam engine almost. And nowadays, the advertisers and the corporate sorts have followed the eyeballs to the social media realm, which can be tracked, their ad dollars. Their spins can be accounted for in an [00:54:00] accurate way.

[00:54:00] No BS. And it's better for the business model for those people. Not me here, but, uh, yeah, it's a different, different, uh, landscape for sure, but even in the height of the overwhelming popularity of, you know, the big brands and bullshit. Which we never actually wanted. Um, the, there was only room for, you know, 50 or so journalist writers to, you know, earn their keep.

[00:54:33] So it's gone from 50 to four, you know. It's not measurable, you know,

[00:54:40] Tyler: What do you think could be done for the future of that, that kind of, you know, that career? Cause I, I still think it's important. I think it's important that we have people commenting on surfing, uh, covering, not just covering the daily events, but also writing what [00:55:00] drives us, what gets us excited, um, exposing us to people.

[00:55:04] And I'm curious, like, what do you think? We could do or could imagine doing. I don't know. I'm a problem solver. So I'm always like, well, what can we do?

[00:55:17] Scott: you, Tyler could, uh, launch a sub stack and mutants to your heart's content. And, uh, if that gains traction, you will have a followers buying a coffee and off to the races, you know, or this, or, yeah,

[00:55:32] Tyler: Know it's the sub stack. That is really interesting and the self funding, you know

[00:55:37] Scott: or your pod here.

[00:55:39] Tyler: Yeah, well, I think the podcast medium is Is so, uh, underutilized still in terms of a format, like it's not even explored. And, and this brings me to the other question of like, do you think surfers could handle real journalism? Like [00:56:00] we've never really had like proper, I mean, you've had these glimmers, you know, you had Brad Malekian went after Andy Irons passed away, you've had like stories, but I wonder if our culture could. sustain real, proper journalism, where it's actually researched real stories, real topics that are almost, you know, a little bit more political even, or of more personal nature, as opposed to surf trips, profiles, and, and design.

[00:56:33] Um,

[00:56:42] Scott: people with chops and the bandwidth and the time and commitment to do that, um, is obstructed by a publisher or advertisers. Now's the time. I don't know if you want to delve deep into, you [00:57:00] know, some, uh, crime syndicate with surfing routes.

[00:57:05] And when a layer neck on the chopping block, you can do that right now, you know,

[00:57:11] Tyler: It's true. It's true. I look at like Chris Nelson, you know, in the big C project where they're, they've uncovered all our neoprene comes from the Danka factory in Cancer Alley, which is now like, I can't even buy a fucking neoprene wetsuit anymore. It has to be Eulex, you know, like I look at those things.

[00:57:34] I'm like, it's there, I guess. I don't know if they'll recoup their money on it, but

[00:57:39] Scott: well, you know what George Carlin said,

[00:57:42] Tyler: what go on.

[00:57:44] Scott: he says, plastic comes from, from the earth. If you see a floating plastic bottle, it's just trying to get home. So yeah,

[00:57:59] Tyler: you [00:58:00] think the SJ, you know, would ever delve into that realm more. Um, I've, I've been told by like, like Jamie Brissick told me, you know, what we're selling is, is candy in some ways, you know, in, in the magazines. It's this kind of sugar coated kind of thing that, you know, makes us feel good, you know, for the most part.

[00:58:23] Scott: that's a fair charge and assessment of what I do and what we do. For sure, because we don't do investigations, we don't do real hard journalism, we never have, we, we've had a couple, a few writers who are eminently capable of that, but our readers don't ask for that, um, in person, uh, via email, comms, in surveys, there's no hunger for that from us.

[00:58:57] From us. So I [00:59:00] use that as my Dodge.

[00:59:01] Tyler: That's a good dodge. You don't know. It's, it's your, your, you have an audience, you're catering to them. And, and I would also argue you are as, as Matt Warshaw says, you know, sneaking the vegetables in there to a certain extent,

[00:59:15] Scott: Yeah, we try.

[00:59:18] Tyler: but I have to ask then like, What was your response and SJ's response to, uh, when Lauren Hill made some public comments, uh, not too long ago about, um, you know, Surface Journal not having enough female representation and other types of representation in it.

[00:59:40] Um, I could read her quote, but I don't know if we need to go there, but,

[00:59:45] Scott: know,

[00:59:46] Tyler: you know,

[00:59:47] Scott: I know what you speak.

[00:59:49] Tyler: yes.

[00:59:50] Scott: I thought it was on her part, um, immature and overly public. And, uh, I would have loved the chance to talk to [01:00:00] her. I don't know. I don't know exactly what she does. I know she's a fine surfer,

[01:00:05] Tyler: yeah.

[01:00:06] Scott: but, uh, yeah, I'd love would have loved the opportunity to. Um, bro chat with her before she went so public because I won't be defensive.

[01:00:20] Uh, defensive. Uh, we would love to have more women's content. I hate that word. Other than the covers and features and interviews with female surfers, we already do. It's a weird thing though, in a weird way, we're kind of a men's magazine. I hate to say it, like 90 plus percent of our readers are men. And, uh, whenever I do something like the 30 page piece on women's professional surfing, the decades that I did 20 years ago, we hear crickets and whenever I [01:01:00] run something like Emmy Erickson undercover.

[01:01:04] We don't hear cheer number one from, from people, including. This, uh, Loren gal. So, you know, I only, I only bear the slings and arrows. Gladly, that's fine, but I'll continue to serve our readership, and uh, if I see something black out from the gals, like uh, we're seeing this year across the board, it's a huge year for women's surfing, we will reflect that, always.

[01:01:38] Tyler: Do you, I mean, I feel like they're, and I don't know, I remember having a conversation with my friend Davina, who runs the Women's Surf Film Festival, and she would come to me and be like, Tyler, It's hard because it's hard to, there's not a lot of women creating the content even. There's not enough [01:02:00] women, uh, writing and putting stuff out there at the time when she's doing the festival.

[01:02:06] And I do think that it, that is maybe changing hopefully. And I think like there's more, more women getting involved with surfing and wanting to be more, uh, proactive in that way. But I imagine you also, it's tough to find like people to cover that sometimes too, no? Would you say?

[01:02:25] Scott: It's just as hard, if not more so, than it is to find people up to the task of uh, uh, leaning into a feature here at the journal, you know, we only, if you show up in your, your only claim is to represent some body, um, that's not enough,

[01:02:52] Tyler: What are your thoughts on, like, the magazine Emotion that came out?

[01:02:56] Scott: I've,

[01:02:56] Tyler: Have you, have you picked up a copy at all?

[01:02:58] Scott: I've seen [01:03:00] one copy and I've seen, I follow, um, Mariah who's. in a way started here. Um, and I, I love it. It's weird. It's sideways. It's very personal. Yeah. It's not for my closet all the time and it shouldn't be, you know, I'm a middle aged, you know, but

[01:03:24] Tyler: Cisgender white dude. Come on, say it. I'm

[01:03:27] Scott: yeah, um, yeah, for sure. But, um, yeah, it seems indulgent and freaky.

[01:03:35] And high end and it's productive and I applaud it. Yeah. I hope they do super well.

[01:03:42] Tyler: It's awesome. Like I enjoy it. I think that they, they are filling, filling a void that's out there. And that has been there probably for a while. And I think it's working. And, and again, like I think there's plenty of room. There's so much room in surfing for all of these [01:04:00] things. And I mean, honestly, like. I want to see more stuff and I want to see more content from everyone, you know, that can put it out.

[01:04:10] I just wonder what, yeah, I want to see more stuff, more content, never enough.

[01:04:16] Scott: Not, not good shit. Just shit

[01:04:19] Tyler: No good shit. I want to see good shit. I want to see good shit right now. It's like, I definitely have like a, my mouth to a fire hydrant with the content that's being coming out, but I want to see I would like to see more unique perspective.

[01:04:35] I would like to see, um, people challenging even status quo stuff, um, that we've, you know, maybe we've all grown up thinking a certain way and then to be like, no, actually it's this way. Or, you know, uh, Oh, I didn't think I would love to even see like more meditations on some of the, some of the politics that we have in the country, but can be told through [01:05:00] surfing even, I

[01:05:00] Scott: Sure. Sure. I think. Yeah. Yeah. There's a, there's an ask for every seat for, you know, and, uh, never better time to get that any point of view out there for better or worse.

[01:05:15] Tyler: Like I I think it'd be interesting to see an article of like talking about localism and connection to America first kind of movement and kind of the similarities and kind of the Ideologies of those I think would be fascinating. I don't know like I'm heady. I'm like

[01:05:32] Scott: I get it. You can do that.

[01:05:33] Tyler: We're in New York. We got nothing no waves.

[01:05:35] So we have to think about shit all the time

[01:05:38] Scott: Yeah, I get it. And it is, uh, a by product of those conversations. I've changed my, I've skewed my own viewpoints over the last five years drastically. So many kind of boomer truths I grew up with.

[01:05:57] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:05:58] Scott: Don't hold water. They [01:06:00] really don't,

[01:06:00] Tyler: I know.

[01:06:01] Scott: know? So I find myself more and more hanging with, uh, like minded people in their twenties, thirties, forties, and not, you know, these decrepit boomers.

[01:06:15] Um, and it's kind of weird. The, uh, hogwash we've been fed.

[01:06:21] Tyler: Oh my gosh, it's crazy, right? Like, yeah, I mean, even in just surfing, we've just been told one thing for so long, and then Like I see girls can't surf the movie and then I see Pauline Mentor's book come out and I'm like fuck what a missed opportunity from the media back in 80s and 90s to cover women's surfing because They were way more gnarly than the guys They had to deal with so much shit and real shit Not like fucking dumb dumb like low dumb shit that like [01:07:00]male surfers tend to indulge in I feel like

[01:07:04] Scott: Yeah.

[01:07:04] Tyler: know, it's really, yeah, like there's been a real shift.

[01:07:08] I feel like where we question a lot more of those things that we, we thought we knew were right. And then you're like, no, actually it's not. And

[01:07:16] Scott: Yeah. Yeah. And not to continue to, uh, dodge your original questions, but, uh,

[01:07:21] Tyler: no. Yeah.

[01:07:34] Scott: Always. And when those arrive, we run them. So, don't be shy.

[01:07:41] Tyler: There you go, listeners, put pen to paper, send it to Scott Hewlett,

[01:07:47] Scott: Or Alex Wilson, our

[01:07:48] Tyler: Alex Wilson, yeah, yeah, sorry,

[01:07:50] Scott: I'll read them. CC me on everything.

[01:07:59] Tyler: um, [01:08:00] I guess then, like, you know, I wanted to dive, like, how back into a little bit of, like, Your stroke and what that did for your writing, did it change your writing style and how you looked at writing?

[01:08:16] Scott: It sounds like you have an opinion there.

[01:08:19] Tyler: No, no, no, no, no. I'm just curious. No, I'm, I'm totally curious, like if you've, um, no, uh, it's just, I've talked to, I've had, I've had friends with, with strokes and have had, had experienced things like this, and it's. You know, they've had to create new neural pathways in their brain. And so it's, they've had to think about, or go about, use different muscles in their brains to do that task.

[01:08:46] And it's different.

[01:08:47] Scott: Okay. I get it now. Yeah. Neuroplasticity is important, obviously, but I'm a lucky duck and the stroke. Popped some synapse in me that [01:09:00] allowed me to more effectively clear up my prose on the draft. Yeah, so I think I'm writing better than I ever had at the precise moment I need to. So, Even in my dotage, my mid career, late mid career, I think my best work is coming right now, like the S'more when I wrote.

[01:09:27] So, that's, that's uh, that's a stoker.

[01:09:31] Tyler: What, what interests you to write about now? What are, what are taking your interest for writing?

[01:09:37] Scott: Well, my last book, Was a architecture book, uh, about, um, vernacular Adobe architecture in Southern California. And my new book is obviously, uh, travel writing with a skirt bent. And my next book is in progress, and that's about animals. Is that [01:10:00] broad enough?

[01:10:03] Tyler: I imagine you're watching Ricky Gervais's animals special to kind of get up to date and get some humor in there as well.

[01:10:09] Scott: I don't know what that even means.

[01:10:11] Tyler: Oh my God, comedian, great comedy special. No, anyway. And

[01:10:28] Scott: that. The first trap chapter, I went to the blessing of the Guinea pigs in Peru.

[01:10:36] Tyler: did you have Cooey afterwards? Oh

[01:10:42] Scott: a big fucking pile. I, I, I had to, I had to pick out my pig. I had to dispatch it with a blade and

[01:10:52] Tyler: God.

[01:10:53] Scott: butcher it

[01:10:54] Tyler: Oh, poor guinea pig.

[01:10:56] Scott: and chuck it in a pot of Exceedingly [01:11:00] hot oil.

[01:11:01] Tyler: Yeah, deep fried. That's the way to go. And you're looking good.

[01:11:05] Scott: would have done it different in my own kitchen.

[01:11:08] Tyler: Oh, yeah. Well, how would you prepare Cooey? Uh, listeners, Cooey is guinea pig.

[01:11:13] Scott: Yeah, I would, uh, marinate it and then barbecue it.

[01:11:18] Tyler: Mmm. So, Cuy is a delicacy in Peru where they will serve you, um, you know, guinea pig, basically. And I remember it coming out on my plate with the teeth and nose and all with the tail deep frozen, but kind of like chicken, a little stringier.

[01:11:38] Scott: It, it struck me as like a fatty rabbit. And

[01:11:42] Tyler: Ooh, yeah, I could

[01:11:43] Scott: Oh, 11,

[01:11:44] Tyler: see that. When did you first go to Peru?

[01:11:52] Scott: years ago.

[01:11:53] Tyler: Where did you go at first? What was your first place to visit?

[01:11:57] Scott: Well, Lima, like always. But, um, [01:12:00] then I went, uh, north to Chicama.

[01:12:03] Tyler: Mm hmm.

[01:12:04] Scott: I love Trujillo, and uh, also south to Cerro Azul.

[01:12:11] Tyler: I spent like six months in Huanchaco, basically, hanging

[01:12:15] Scott: Oh wow, on a mission, or?

[01:12:17] Tyler: Just to surf, hang out, be a bum, make my money last for a while, and uh, just go for left hand point breaks.

[01:12:26] Scott: I get it.

[01:12:27] Tyler: You know, and I loved, I loved Trujillo and I love Huanchaco. Like they're very cool places. I mean, I'm curious to see how it's changed over the years.

[01:12:38] Let my last trip was 2006. So it's been a while.

[01:12:42] Scott: I would wager very little.

[01:12:44] Tyler: Really? I feel like Chacama might've changed a bit with the boats that take people back out now and people on foils. And I assume El Hombre is no longer there anymore, but maybe his daughters are still running the spot.[01:13:00]

[01:13:00] Scott: yeah, I don't know about the latter, uh, that section is still there. Um, Yeah, it's uh, it's uh, Chikama. I can't compare it to your experience, but uh, getting waves was not an issue at all.

[01:13:14] Tyler: Oh, no, it's so long, like, most people's leg give out at some point, you'll be able to get something out of it.

[01:13:21] Scott: Geez, what a place for a glider, you know? For like a 10. 6 Fish Simmons. Woo!

[01:13:29] Tyler: can you imagine?

[01:13:30] Scott: because it's soft. You have to connect anything that's cupping down the

[01:13:36] Tyler: You could really connect to the Alhambra section then, and that, that's where that barrel starts to happen. And, I mean, can you imagine, like, trying to get to the jetty? I mean, not the jetty, the pier. That pier is so scary, by the way.

[01:13:50] Scott: Yeah. You

[01:13:51] Tyler: You can't shoot it.

[01:13:54] Scott: know, you'd have to get your uh, Tosh Tutor on. Yeah.

[01:13:57] Tyler: What, what cuisine [01:14:00] surprised you most in Peru, actually? Cause that was like a place that I felt it was so rich in cuisine. It was incredible. Like I was blown away by the diversity of food.

[01:14:12] Scott: Everything, you know, surprising wise, this is a super high end ship. I went to, um, uh, Astrid, I forget it's, I didn't go to Central, which is considered the finest restaurant on the planet,

[01:14:29] Tyler: Wow.

[01:14:30] Scott: I went to Astrid Gaston and that was amazing, but, um, for, for my closet, I love the, uh, Creole cuisine.

[01:14:40] Tyler: love the Creole

[01:14:42] Scott: Yeah, there's a fast food place there called La Lucha.

[01:14:47] This is outrageous.

[01:14:50] Tyler: was blown away by the sushi, actually. I couldn't believe it, you know.

[01:14:56] Scott: They call that Nikkei cuisine from the, [01:15:00] uh, Japanese who came,

[01:15:02] Tyler: Yeah, well, they have that exchange program, basically, where Peruvians go to Japan and vice versa, and like, obviously, Fujimori was president, but I mean, it's, it's interesting. I, I, where did your love of cuisine come from and knowledge of that? How, how did that evolve for you?

[01:15:22] Scott: uh, in a formal way, working at restaurants during my, when I was a student

[01:15:28] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:15:29] Scott: and reading. And, uh, comparing reading with experience.

[01:15:36] Tyler: I feel like surf travel helps to make, can, it can help to make you a foodie if you're open to it.

[01:15:42] Scott: Any travel.

[01:15:44] Tyler: Yeah, any travel, but we're in a surf program, so we're just going to talk surf travel. But yeah, I feel like surf travel can kind of open those doors and open that mindset.

[01:15:53] Scott: Yeah, if you're open to it, you know. I remember going to France with a surf turkey [01:16:00] who had been there and goes, Oh, you're going to hate it. The food there is horrible. Because he couldn't find a hamburger. You know,

[01:16:08] Tyler: What do you mean? pollos that were so good, they were like, like a, like a mix patty of pork and beef and then they would put shredded chicken on top, and then an egg, and then little pollo Little, uh, you know, um, what is, like, little, uh, potato chip fries on there. Fucking plenty of burgers.

[01:16:32] Scott: that's in Dallas.

[01:16:34] Tyler: Yeah. Late night, late night after coming back from Trujillo partying. Um, so this is a question for my brother. He had to ask. And please don't take this the wrong way.

[01:16:49] Scott: No, never.

[01:16:50] Tyler: But the profile articles, he's noticed, have become shorter in recent years in SJ. And he, he's asking, why is that? He, [01:17:00] remember, he uses animal tracks as, uh, He, he thinks it's one of the best articles ever written in SJ.

[01:17:07] And it was almost like a mini book. And the Laird piece, too, years ago, they were so deep. Like, you, it would take you Oh, you know, it take you a week to get through the SJ at least. And now it does feel like things have kind of shortened a little bit on some of those. And I was curious if there was a reason, um, I don't know, or maybe, maybe we're imagining it.

[01:17:35] I'm not sure.

[01:17:36] Scott: Well, I would advise asking your brother if he's

[01:17:40] Tyler: fuck off? Tell him to fuck off?

[01:17:42] Scott: That would be telling. I want you to add on to that. If he's ready for a 64 page profile of Griffin Colopinto,

[01:17:53] Tyler: What? 64 pages?

[01:17:56] Scott: is that going to happen?

[01:17:58] Tyler: Dude, that would be [01:18:00] fucking amazing. I want, who's writing that? Do you mind if I ask? Can we let that out of the bag?

[01:18:05] Scott: Are you on glue? I'm joking. That's impossible. The reason Animal Tracks World, which was 50 pages on Nat Young by Drew Campion, the poet warrior of surfing,

[01:18:17] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:18:18] Scott: it, you know, that had to happen. Those, uh, you know, those profile opportunities. For, um, world class late career surfers have kind of dried up. We're on the prowl, and we'll pepper one in each year.

[01:18:37] A big, maybe long form profile. But, um, I understand his concern, and I'm with him.

[01:18:44] Tyler: You had me going, you motherfucker.

[01:18:46] Scott: Well, I'm saying,

[01:18:47] Tyler: had me going. I was like, wow, I didn't realize Griffin was so interesting. He was worthy of

[01:18:54] Scott: no one is. No one is at that age. And that's my point.[01:19:00]

[01:19:00] Tyler: I'm waiting for the Tom Curran kind of total all encompassing, talking about family emotions and whatnot to come out one day.

[01:19:10] Scott: Well,

[01:19:11] Tyler: It's been, I mean, it's been touched upon. There've been many Currans, but I want like a fucking Curran book eventually.

[01:19:17] Scott: yeah, book is overdue. I'm sure, especially for, uh, if nothing else for you alone.

[01:19:24] Tyler: thanks. Yeah. Right. Tom need to make it for me. That book. I mean, I don't know. Like I, I think there are people worthy of it though. They may not be totally in the surf side guys maybe, but they've had lives that potentially are, are that interesting outside of even the surf world. Maybe.

[01:19:44] Scott: Yeah, I understand. Totally. And, uh, we have a whiteboard full of them and we deal those in like a, uh, Game of hearts into issues down the road. Um, but that's a, that's a poignant, uh, point your brother [01:20:00] made. Big bomber profile. So you can really sink your teeth in too.

[01:20:05] Tyler: Yeah, yeah. I mean,

[01:20:07] Scott: a Finnegan's piece about Doc recently.

[01:20:11] Tyler: That was great. I really

[01:20:13] Scott: Yeah. That could have been in the journal in 2000 or 2008. And. Yeah.

[01:20:21] Tyler: interesting. I was like, I've read that. It was It wasn't so much that Jock lived such an interesting life as it was that Finnegan's just a phenomenal writer, too. You know, because I'm like, oh, so he's just a roofer for most of these years. There wasn't much else going on, you know, like, but he made it so compelling somehow.

[01:20:45] Scott: He knows, uh, William, Bill knows how to really, uh, boil things down to the important nuances.

[01:20:53] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:20:54] Scott: Yeah. He's an artist.

[01:20:58] Tyler: How, [01:21:00] with your writing, and how, how would you say it's evolved over the years? And what, who do you tribute, uh, as far as like, did you have any mentors or anyone that helped steer your, your, your writing style in a certain direction or helped you kind of perform better? Yeah,

[01:21:23] Scott: thrown into the mix without a life ring. So I never had an editor per se, ever. And. Yeah, thank God. Being my worst, my own worst critic saved me from most of the most egregious errors. Um, that helped. I could have really, really benefited from an editor or team of confidants in the language.

[01:21:54] Um, but, yeah, I'm self taught, mostly.[01:22:00]

[01:22:01] Tyler: Your dad was a writer though, correct?

[01:22:03] Scott: dad wrote poems and he did, he did, uh, write for an underground newspaper in San Diego in the 60s.

[01:22:11] Tyler: That's cool.

[01:22:13] Scott: Uh, yeah, that's a,

[01:22:15] Tyler: Was your dad kind of subversive?

[01:22:18] Scott: uh, double subversive. Not in the way Rolling Stone would tell you it is. More, um, Boomer lies. Um, yeah, yeah, he was, uh, his best left off line.

[01:22:37] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:22:38] Scott: There was actually some hazard involved with what he did.

[01:22:42] Tyler: Fair enough. Interesting. That's where you get, get a little bit of that from.

[01:22:49] Scott: I guess so. Yeah, he wrote and he, he read me and, uh, you know, while he was alive, part of any, anybody writes [01:23:00] to please their dad just a little, you know,

[01:23:02] Tyler: Of course.

[01:23:03] Scott: uh, that was a, that was a carryover effect.

[01:23:09] Tyler: Do you Who else? Anyone else like writers that you felt were

[01:23:16] Scott: Oh yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, there's people I would send, uh, drafts to and solicit their feedback, people I trust. And, uh, yeah, fellow editors and writers, uh, mostly in surfing, some not, um, I had the benefit of, um,

[01:23:39] Tyler: Silence.

[01:23:49] Scott: friends with.

[01:23:50] And Brian was a superb craftsman and very complimentary in the right ways without being full of shit. He'd call [01:24:00] me out. And, uh, that was a joy, uh, obviously. And I have old friends who read me and totally eye roll. What is that? That never happened. You're out of your mind. Fuck you. That's really valuable too.

[01:24:21] Tyler: you? Do you feel like, um, sorry, lost my train of thought there. Um, I'm curious then, like, what do you see coming? Like, what do you look, what do you, like, what do you see coming from newer journalists coming up, like that are, that are, like you said, you have a really good staple. What is it about them that you feel is really strong about their writing styles and what they're doing?

[01:24:50] Scott: Well, you know, I was talking about the team here, the staff, and, uh, Alex Wilson is a novelist and a short story [01:25:00] expert writer and, uh, you know, award-winning and out outside the scope of surf. And Whitman Bedwell, um, came up in a magazine family, and, uh, he,

[01:25:13] Tyler: fun name to say too.

[01:25:15] Scott: yeah, everyone loves Whitman,

[01:25:17] Tyler: Whitman Bedwell. That's fun to say.

[01:25:21] Scott: It's like a character in Dallas.

[01:25:23] Tyler: I know it's

[01:25:26] Scott: He's awesome. And, uh, yeah, and Ben Waldron, we, uh, poached him from the death RAs of surfer and he's super hip and has that great, um, kind of alternative weekly voice that I love that fits surfing so well. So you have a great team, um, in answers to your question about who else, um, young writers that, uh, Alex is scouting.

[01:25:55] It's doing an insane job of finding [01:26:00] craftsmen, you know, real writers, people that read and surf and travel and, uh, yeah, that's kind of jugging us with new voices, younger voices, which is critical.

[01:26:13] Tyler: Do you think that because they're so not attached to the surf industry, in some ways, it's, it's going to potentially allow for a more, more critical eye on surfing?

[01:26:28] Scott: Again, maybe other places are, we're not looking to be critical, you know, uh, that's not in our. Interest

[01:26:39] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:26:40] Scott: personally, or as a entity, you

[01:26:43] Tyler: Or do you think it gives them freedom to write more, uh, more honestly, at least, and not have to worry about I imagine a lot of journalists for some time were worried about pissing off the advertisers and the publishers, and so obviously it would be [01:27:00] muted a lot more things.

[01:27:01] Scott: that's never been a problem here because people know what we're into. We've never had an advertiser recoil, not because we play it safe, but they trust our honesty and the record here at the journal. So that's sweet.

[01:27:19] Tyler: Where do you see the journal going in 10 years time, you think? How do you think it'll evolve, or if it will evolve?

[01:27:27] Scott: Well, Hey, look at history, you know, if you want to see. And, uh, slight modifications and evolutions and, uh, increase in quality. We never go backwards.

[01:27:41] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:27:42] Scott: And, uh, increase in page count and construction. And, uh, all I ask is that we never lessen the surprise. And that's a real challenge with everything available on your phone.

[01:27:57] Coming up with an, Oh my God, where, [01:28:00] where'd they come up with that idea? That's my job and our job as a whole. And, uh, I don't know. I hope we're doing that.

[01:28:09] Tyler: Do you like see expansion of other content mediums like I imagine Jamie's podcast has been quite successfully got for you guys and I'm curious like if that's another area you can explore and obviously I love the um, the complimentary art on the Art pieces, uh, videos that come out with the artists.

[01:28:32] Like the one on Fritz was awesome. Fritz is a good friend of mine. So I'd love that,

[01:28:37] Scott: Well, yeah, you know, part and parcel of being a quote, modern media company, unquote, is embracing all the modes available now. So, uh, increased digital. Uh, yeah. Our readers cherish the print though. That's why we're here. They want the organ to [01:29:00] maintain itself and grow. So that's job one, but we'll also be, uh, delving into things that our readers enjoy the podcast,

[01:29:11] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:29:11] Scott: our IG feed of all things, um, things like that.

[01:29:16] Tyler: I think the podcast thing could be, I mean, not as a podcaster, you know, but I think there's, there are places for that. I was, you know, what I was going to do at some point, I was going to read an article and record it and then send it to you guys and say, Hey, I'll do your audio versions of your articles.

[01:29:37] Scott: Try it seriously. Try it. Because our house.

[01:29:41] Tyler: smooth Tyler voice, voiceover.

[01:29:45] Scott: no, you have a great voice and, uh, there has been discussion with action pending for future kind of, uh, auditory experiences. How's that?

[01:29:58] Tyler: Oh, I like that. You know, [01:30:00] with AI, it's like you can kind of go and just throw a bunch of pictures in and ask it to put together a kind of mashup of, of images that go along with the story. Things of that nature that allow it to have that visual to go with it too. This is, yeah, I think. I think the look future is looking pretty good for the SJ. Now, what does a creative editor do? That's your, your title. What, what is like the day to day of that

[01:30:35] Scott: Well, actually they call me the creative director

[01:30:39] Tyler: creative director?

[01:30:40] Scott: and it's kind of a misnomer because I'm a. forward looking editor and cool hunter and charge day affairs and a diplomat and all of that by dent of my history here, um, my day to day is, um, [01:31:00] I boot up my laptop wherever in the world I am and, uh, weigh in on current proofing.

[01:31:09] And, uh, pitches and photo picks and designs. And I weigh in on that like we all do. And, uh, my primary responsibility is looking forward to, uh, opportunities and places and subjects.

[01:31:29] Tyler: I love that

[01:31:30] Scott: Yeah, it's a good hustle.

[01:31:33] Tyler: So you're just now the SJ life or would you say

[01:31:37] Scott: Uh, you'd have to ask my betters. There

[01:31:42] Tyler: Yeah. It's fucking great place to be and not bad for taking a vowed, uh, you know, oath of poverty. Yeah.

[01:31:51] Scott: are trade offs that I, I find a resonant,

[01:31:58] Tyler: Do you ever slide? Do you ever [01:32:00] do a sliding doors? Imagine it. Imagination of what your life would be like had you not surfed or gone into surfing

[01:32:09] Scott: uh,

[01:32:10] Tyler: as a career, at

[01:32:11] Scott: no, not really. I'm, I, you know, I'm not reflective in that way. I'm more in the now I really am. And, uh, I, as I see the hourglass trickling, I, I've, uh, kind of edited down my life to the things I really love doing and I pursue those. Relentlessly.

[01:32:36] Tyler: What's next for Scott Hulet?

[01:32:44] Scott: writing, more editing, more travel.

[01:32:47] Tyler: Where do you want to go next? Where haven't you been that you want to go?

[01:32:51] Scott: Well, I think I'm, uh, very soon I'm dropping down to, uh, Rio and, uh, Buenos Aires. I have some [01:33:00] work. Uh, I, as I voiced to your, uh, crony, David, I'm going Sardinia. Yeah. You know, a country or actually, yeah, not a country, an island named after the fodder for tuna. I have to go, you know,

[01:33:22] Tyler: And maybe get a wave or two, potentially.

[01:33:25] Scott: great surf, uh, great food. I love, um, raw milk cheeses and cheap cheeses and, uh, they have that.

[01:33:37] Tyler: Man, I do not want to share a bed with you.

[01:33:40] Scott: No, I'm a clean vessel, my friend.

[01:33:43] Tyler: The rochises don't make you

[01:33:46] Scott: no, no, no. That's like a peanut allergy. That's a made up thing for me. That's normal. I'm joking. Yeah. But no intolerance of any sort in [01:34:00] me or around me.

[01:34:02] Tyler: You said you were, um, and David, you're like on the meat kick. You're all about meat, right?

[01:34:09] Scott: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love, uh,

[01:34:12] Tyler: real clean, clean eating, no process stuff.

[01:34:15] Scott: yeah, I'm trying. I had a real awakening, obviously, and I'm on a path and it's going well. I, yeah, I love, uh, grass bed, spring water, Um, fed, Zacate fed Sonoran beef, you know, I love that. I love beef, um, I love wild game, I love wild boar, my friends hunt, my friends ranch. So I have some of that going on, and I love fish, I love to fish, I love fruit.

[01:34:47] I love honey. I love, like, uh, goat's milk, kefir, and things like that. Things that treat me well, I really have a taste for. I cheat often, you know? [01:35:00] Especially when I travel. Can't be prissy. Um, but, uh, yeah. I'm down for it all.

[01:35:07] Tyler: God, I'd like to do like a, a travel show with you and Trev's

[01:35:12] Scott: Ah, there you go. That's, yeah, a German who loves cuisine.

[01:35:20] Tyler: It's rare.

[01:35:22] Scott: Jim Harrison said he didn't like German wine for the same reason he didn't like the smell of it at the car wash.

[01:35:37] Tyler: Hello. It's going to do my German accent for a second

[01:35:41] Scott: yeah, I'm sitting in front of a Treff's photo. I love it. It's always out.

[01:35:47] Tyler: He's an amazing guy. He's such a character and I love his latest book too. It's also amazing.

[01:35:54] Scott: haven't seen it yet. We reviewed it, but someone absconded with the copy.[01:36:00]

[01:36:01] Tyler: It's, it's nice. Yeah, I only got a PDF version. So,

[01:36:05] Scott: Oh, that's nothing. We need the heft.

[01:36:09] Tyler: yeah, you know, got to fill it up with the, the wall behind me

[01:36:13] Scott: Uh, der heft.

[01:36:14] Tyler: Hello there. So, Scott, I really appreciate your time here. Thank you for letting me indulge in all my wildest, silly questions about you and Surfer's Journal and behind the scenes stuff and forcing you to answer uncomfortable questions.

[01:36:35] Greatly appreciate it.

[01:36:37] Scott: Yeah, no discomfort whatsoever. It was a pleasure.

[01:36:41] Tyler: how's your podcast tour going by the way? What do you, what are your thoughts on the medium before we go? I'm curious, even though you don't listen to it a lot, but now you've had the taste of it.

[01:36:51] Scott: Yeah, um, uh, you know, Voltaire said, To live well, live hidden. And this is a rare [01:37:00] occasion of me popping my head up in the service of book sales. Um, and I will retreat anon. Believe me. Back down South, but overall, it's been a generous and fun. David is a Jim, you're a Jim. Um,

[01:37:18] Tyler: Kevin and, uh, and Brooksy,

[01:37:22] Scott: Evan, John are Jim's. So it's been kind of collegial and generous and, uh, charitable and, uh, fun for me, you know, was it good for you?

[01:37:34] Tyler: Oh yeah, I need to light a cigarette

[01:37:37] Scott: I guess.

[01:37:38] Tyler: good it was. Well, Scott, I really appreciate you coming on, I appreciate your time. Uh, listeners, um, go check out his book. Scott, where can our listeners find you and find the book?

[01:37:55] Scott: com for the book or, um, You can [01:38:00] hit Amazon if you must, but if you go to surferjournal. com, you get a few little, um, little gifts

[01:38:08] Tyler: Ooh.

[01:38:10] Scott: Um, and I think you'll like it. So yeah, definitely buy one.

[01:38:14] Tyler: Check it out, listeners, and, uh, thank you all for listening, really appreciate it, and, uh, we'll see you all down the line soon.

[01:38:24] Scott: Thank you. [01:39:00]