Authority Problem with Kris Chatterson

[00:01:21] Chris Coffin: We're here at Swell Season Surf Radio, um, with, uh, the Art and Design series with Chris and Chris, and this week we have on Chris, so it's the three Chrises. We've got Chris Chatter. Yeah, we've got Chris Chatter back on again. And, um, this, this is gonna be an interesting, uh, conversation. Um, this is part two of the Chris Chatterton interview.

[00:01:47] Chris Coffin: We had him on, uh, a few years ago, uh, when he was in a different stage, a different geographic location, um, in his life. Um, and this is a conversation [00:02:00] that I think has been evolving over a couple of years. I'm, I'm actually a good friend of, of Chris Chatterton and, um, I've had the pleasure of, uh, watching his, his artwork grow and evolve and, and watches his, watching his life grow and evolve and, um. There have been amazing epiphanies and, um, amazing revelations that have happened over the last couple of years. And, uh, one of the things that I think is incredible is just, uh, the growth that we all go through as, as people and as artists. So, um, welcome, welcome Chris Chatterton.

[00:02:36] Chris Labzda: Welcome, Chris.

[00:02:37] Kris Chatterson: Thank you. Thanks for having me back too.

[00:02:40] Chris Coffin: So, uh, it's been, it's been, it was, it, it is been pretty awesome. I've gotten to, I've gotten to see you twice, I'd say in the last seven days. I, I think I saw, yeah. And, um,

[00:02:54] Kris Chatterson: in less than 48 hours apart.

[00:02:56] Chris Coffin: yeah, yeah, I mean, I got like the double dose of Chris [00:03:00] Chatters in like 48 hours. Um, but, uh, Chris just opened, um, an exhibition of his artwork at Satchel Project in New York City.

[00:03:09] Chris Coffin: Uh, Chris, can you tell us about that, that exhibition?

[00:03:12] Kris Chatterson: Well, it's, it's a group show, um, and it's the, the, it's called authority problem. And it's a collection of artists who make art that is distinctly anti-authoritarian. uh, the work of mine included, um, are the, the punk rock posters and punk rock, uh, abstract punk rock posters and paintings that I made.

[00:03:40] Kris Chatterson: Uh, last year.

[00:03:41] Chris Coffin: Okay, so for those of you who might've missed the f the chapter one of, uh, of Chris Chatson, um, we interviewed him at a time where he was fully embedded, um, in the Rhode Island surf scene, um, up in the, the south county of, uh, of [00:04:00] Rhode Island. And, um, was full on into, uh, making his paintings. Had just made a transition out of Brooklyn and, uh, kind of.

[00:04:11] Chris Coffin: Uh, reestablished a, a new, a new home for his family and, um, was starting on a whole new life for a whole bunch of different reasons. And, and, and where we are now is a, a whole new chapter. And one of the things that we've been talking about over the last couple of months and maybe even years, is just the evolution of, um, of a career and the evolution of, uh, priorities.

[00:04:36] Chris Coffin: And, um, I just wanted you to talk about that, Chris, like, like if you could remember like where we left off. You were, you were talking about your creative process, you were talking a lot about your paintings, um, you were talking a lot about, um, what it was like to move out of Brooklyn and reestablish yourself in Rhode Island.

[00:04:54] Chris Coffin: Um, and you were, we were talking a lot about community and um, [00:05:00] uh, the new community that you were embedding yourself in up in Rhode Island. And maybe you just start from there.

[00:05:07] Kris Chatterson: So like my time in Rhode Island, like how I, how I think about it now, like having not lived there for almost like, at least about four years.

[00:05:18] Chris Coffin: Yeah. Well,

[00:05:19] Chris Labzda: four years since you left Rhode Island.

[00:05:21] Kris Chatterson: Yeah. I, I moved, um, January of 2021,

[00:05:28] Chris Labzda: Okay. I feel like those years kind of just ripped by, like it feels like yesterday I was sitting in McCarran Park with you,

[00:05:37] Kris Chatterson: Yeah, I

[00:05:38] Chris Labzda: but that was probably 12 years ago now.

[00:05:43] Kris Chatterson: No, it was more than that, man.

[00:05:45] Chris Labzda: 15.

[00:05:46] Kris Chatterson: At least.

[00:05:47] Chris Labzda: Oh, Jesus.

[00:05:49] Kris Chatterson: At

[00:05:49] Chris Coffin: guys are old man.

[00:05:51] Chris Labzda: Anyway, so like it's been now four years since you left Rhode Island, you're in Orange, which is very [00:06:00] close. A lot of people who come from like, leave Brooklyn, go to the oranges,

[00:06:03] Kris Chatterson: Yeah. So, so yeah, that's, so there's a confluence of things that happened to kind of bring on the idea of us moving back in the direction of being close to New York City and, but one of the reasons why we picked here is. It really like the, these suburbs are really like a, a borough of New

[00:06:32] Chris Labzda: mm-hmm.

[00:06:33] Kris Chatterson: you know, and I know a lot of people in in Brooklyn are gonna disagree, but the commute, my commute from here to Manhattan, it's the same time amount of time as it was when I was living in Ridgewood and taking, taking the M all.

[00:06:53] Kris Chatterson: In fact, it might even be faster because the m was never super reliable. And sometimes it would just [00:07:00] stop and you had to get out and jump on another train, walk a few blocks, and it was always, you never knew. Um, not that NJ Transit is super that much better, but if at least you're gonna get to where you're going without having to get off.

[00:07:17] Chris Labzda: I remember Ridgewood I lived off of, and, and it was like

[00:07:21] Kris Chatterson: Yeah.

[00:07:22] Chris Labzda: you could not rely on the trains to get you anywhere.

[00:07:26] Kris Chatterson: No,

[00:07:26] Chris Labzda: I.

[00:07:27] Kris Chatterson: maybe it's different now, but the, the point is, is like I say, I'm back even though I'm in New Jersey, and some people will be like, well, you're not in Brooklyn. I'm like, well, I still can get to the city and do whatever I need to do in the city just as fast as most people that live in Brooklyn or wherever.

[00:07:49] Chris Coffin: Yeah. And, and, and life changes, right? Life life changes. Yeah. I mean, I'm not in Brooklyn anymore either, and I can still get there if I need to, you [00:08:00] know?

[00:08:00] Kris Chatterson: the, I guess the point I was gonna make is what I, what I liked about this area is one, I already had friends that lived here and two there. A lot of people that were in Brooklyn or a place like Brooklyn when they were younger are here now. And like I have neighbors that. Where, you know, a couple blocks over from where, where we were or the next neighborhood over.

[00:08:28] Kris Chatterson: It's like, don't feel like I'm, I'm in a, in a strange place with people that don't have like a similar life experience to me.

[00:08:38] Chris Coffin: Well, let's, let's, I just wanna take a, take a step back, um, because I think it'll set the stage for our conversation. Um, so you were, you had moved from Brooklyn, uh, you were, you had a, a, a young family and you were, uh, you moved to Rhode Island and [00:09:00] that was a lot of the people who knew you as a painter and a surfer, um, in an urban setting were kind of dumbfounded by that move.

[00:09:07] Chris Coffin: Right? They were just like, you're moving to Rhode Island for what?

[00:09:10] Kris Chatterson: Yeah. Well, and then the people we met in Rhode Island had the same reaction too. They were like, well, do you have family here? And we're like, no. And they were like, well, why are you here?

[00:09:21] Chris Coffin: Yeah.

[00:09:23] Kris Chatterson: So, yeah, it, it was really, um, on some levels both Carrie and I were, were kind of burnt out in some ways of being in the city and trying to negotiate just, just a life of being in the city and a career and managing, um, a young child with a second on the way. And, you know, we had thought about, I think we talked about this a little bit on the, on the, on the previous conversation, we did think of, you know, places maybe on Long [00:10:00] Island or, or going up the Hudson Valley, which a lot of people did,

[00:10:04] Chris Labzda: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:05] Kris Chatterson: since then, or parts of New Jersey.

[00:10:08] Kris Chatterson: And at the time we were just, I, I think I was a little more open to it, but Carrie was definitely like not open to, to New Jersey, just. Mostly 'cause she had lived in Hoboken for a while and that, you know, depending on how you feel about Hoboken, if, if your experience wasn't positive, I could see why you wouldn't want to come back, even though we're not, not in Hoboken now.

[00:10:33] Kris Chatterson: But anyways, we, we wanted to go somewhere where we could kind of disappear and just focus on, um, raising a family and, you know, ha the city would be there when we wanted to engage with it. And, but we would be in like a more rural setting, um, for our life.

[00:10:53] Chris Coffin: Right. So you, you. It kind of went full on [00:11:00] into, um, the community, the surf community up there. And the last time a week ago, or maybe two weeks ago when I saw you, um, I think we, we were talking about community a little bit and, um, you were very much a mainstay in that surfing community and, um, you were even toying with the idea of starting a business in the surf industry.

[00:11:28] Kris Chatterson: Well, I, I, I did start a small brand and it, but I didn't want to, I want to clarify. I wasn't, I think there's a, there's a pathway, like a weird pathway that happens with people in surfing when you, when you really get into it and, uh, and, uh, sometimes you end up creating a, a small business, whether it's you're making fins or.

[00:11:55] Kris Chatterson: You know, you're, you create a brand or you create, um, maybe you start [00:12:00] shaping boards, um, especially if, uh, with creative people or you start a surf shop, um, which I had also thought about, but, um, everyone I had talked to was like, yeah, don't, don't do it. It,

[00:12:15] Chris Coffin: tough business. Yeah.

[00:12:17] Kris Chatterson: yeah, I, I, and I love small businesses, but I, I also, I location and then what, what you intend to do with that business needs to, to make sense with what your customer base would be. And I don't know that the kind of shop I would wanna make would really survive in the, in that southern part of Rhode Island.

[00:12:44] Chris Coffin: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:45] Kris Chatterson: Um, but anyways, back to your point, I. I think I was let into the community there because, uh, they could see or could tell that I just [00:13:00] genuinely loved surfing and everything about it. Not, not just like getting waves or, you know, getting my picture taken. I was, I was in conversation with people about various things in and out of the water. Um, I had friends, we would go to some of the events, actually some of the swell events, um, in Rockaway or like, like the fish fry or like the, there was the, um,

[00:13:28] Chris Labzda: That might have been the last time we met each other in person was like a Rockaway fish fry, I think. Right?

[00:13:33] Kris Chatterson: probably, probably, uh, what was,

[00:13:37] Chris Coffin: You would go to the grain. You would also go up to the, to the grain events up in Maine as well, didn't you?

[00:13:42] Kris Chatterson: So I was making friends and like a community of people that stretched from New Jersey. On the way, all the way up to Maine and then eventually down to all the way down to Florida. So I had the whole east coast, a, a, a network of people. And then I had a [00:14:00]network of people, um, in California that then branched, and this is all via social media, um, that branched all the way up, up and down the, the west coast. And, uh, with, I think what I, I caught wind of and kind of got caught up in is there was like a sub, sub sub, um, group of people that were really interested in a c like a, a certain kind of alternative surfing. And there was nothing out there that like represented that interest or, or I shouldn't say nothing.

[00:14:37] Kris Chatterson: There was not a lot. That wasn't affiliated with a particular brand of surfboard or a name or logo of a particular surfboard. Something that enco encompassed the whole idea in, in my case it was displacement hull surfing. And so I had the, the Hu Aholic, um, Instagram feed [00:15:00] that it felt like it kind of blew up and unintentionally in my part, um, overnight.

[00:15:09] Kris Chatterson: But it did, it did take some time to grow, but once it started to go, it just kind of went crazy and I didn't, I had no idea that, that the time, the power of, of social media and, and how things would snowball and then that there was so many people out there. I would get dms from people like, oh man, I'm the only person in my break that surfs the displacement hall.

[00:15:29] Kris Chatterson: And it's, it's nice to know that there are other people that do that. And you know, I, I was gonna keep it like. You know, super underground, like no, no logos, no stickers, no no t-shirts. But then of course, you know, I had a, somebody that ended up becoming a friend, uh, had a screen printing business took my, uh, one of my designs and they just mocked it up in Photoshop and [00:16:00] sent it to me.

[00:16:00] Kris Chatterson: And it's like, let me print this. And I'm like, what do you do? 'cause people want it, right? That's what people want it. And I'm like, all right, I'll, I'll do whatever, 50, a very small order. And, and then I put it out there. He sent me a photo once he got the first one printed up and I posted it, and I had every shirt sold before the box arrived to me in Rhode Island.

[00:16:26] Kris Chatterson: I had to basically turn around and pack 'em all up and send them out. And then had to have more made. So. That's, that's a slow way of saying eventually after doing that a few times and then being invited, invited out to, um, the, uh, the boardroom, I don't know what it's called now, trade show at down in, um, is it Delmar?

[00:16:53] Chris Coffin: It's in Florida,

[00:16:55] Chris Labzda: The Surf Expo.

[00:16:57] Chris Coffin: the surf.

[00:16:57] Kris Chatterson: Not the, not the one in Florida, the [00:17:00] one down in, um, it's not quite San Diego. You're not, it's not that far south. I think it's the boardroom or it was, it was called the Boardroom. I'm out of the loop, just to be clear. I'm gonna get things wrong. Um, but, you know, I was going to do that on invitation and like having shirts made in California and you know, being invited to sell, sell stuff there.

[00:17:25] Kris Chatterson: And I was like, well, maybe I should start since people want this and. It's for at, at that small scale where it was still a very one-to-one. I I didn't, I never did a website.

[00:17:38] Chris Labzda: mm-hmm.

[00:17:39] Kris Chatterson: something, it was just like, DM me and then send me a PayPal and a Venmo and I'll, I'll get you sorted. It was a one-to-one thing.

[00:17:47] Kris Chatterson: There was no, um, nobody else was involved. I had a little station in my basement with, you know, the, the little bit of products that I had. And if when I get an order in, I would go and [00:18:00] personally pack it and I would take a picture of it for the customer and send it to 'em so that they knew, you know, it was coming.

[00:18:06] Kris Chatterson: I may try to make it special for, for the people, um, ordering. Um, mostly because I was like, well, if they're gonna spend their money on this little thing I'm doing, I should make it, you know, a cool experience for them. Um, but eventually I was like, well, maybe I should separate it from the Halla holic thing because I didn't, I didn't want that, that name, which, which.

[00:18:28] Kris Chatterson: It's not a, a word that I came up with that's, that was Kirk Putnam's word. And he, he was nice and like, kind of let me run with it. And we were, we became friends. Um,

[00:18:39] Chris Labzda: In peace. Right?

[00:18:41] Kris Chatterson: now kps still alive.

[00:18:43] Chris Labzda: Is he still alive?

[00:18:44] Kris Chatterson: Yeah.

[00:18:45] Chris Labzda: Different

[00:18:46] Kris Chatterson: Yeah. It might have be, might be a different, different. Kirk. I just, I messaged him, uh, a little while back. Check. I checked in on him when the, those fires were going on.

[00:18:55] Chris Labzda: Okay.

[00:18:57] Chris Coffin: Well, so. [00:19:00] I kind of wanna, I wanna, I want to cut to the chase because I think for me, the epicenter of this conversation is that you are not surfing anymore. And, and what I'm hearing is that like you became so embedded in a community that you're, um, people got to know you and then the, you know, the sport itself just took on a new life.

[00:19:25] Chris Coffin: And now here you are trying to satisfy customers and you're getting invited places and, and, and now this person, you, um, no longer surfs, right? And you, you've, you've made, you've made it, it was like you made a definitive choice when you moved to New Jersey. Um, that this is not part of my life anymore and this is not who I am.

[00:19:52] Chris Coffin: And, um, I. I, I, I, I want you to kind of comment on, on how and why that happened [00:20:00] and, um, I, I find, I find that interesting because like, as almost arresting as it was for you to move out of Brooklyn and up to Rhode Island, and people were perplexed by that when you moved to New Jersey and said, I'm no longer surfing anymore and I honestly have nothing to do with it. That's also pretty arresting. And because I know you and I respect you, and I, I respect your process and your evolution as a person and an artist, and a, um, you said something to me one day, you said to me, Chris, I just go, where the, where the en energy is, I go where the energy is. And I was like. Yes, this makes sense.

[00:20:48] Chris Coffin: So before we talk about like where you are now and what you're doing, which I find so super interesting, tell us why you just like went cold Turkey on surfing, because [00:21:00] I don't think I could do that.

[00:21:01] Kris Chatterson: Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say I'm, I'm not, I'm on sabbatical from surfing and we'll, we'll get into, into to why, and it's, so, I should preface this whole thing by saying I'm the kind of personality if, if I'm into something, I'm into it a hundred percent. And if I can't give it a hundred percent, I, I can't do it.

[00:21:31] Kris Chatterson: I don't know how to do something halfway. I don't know how to be casual about something. I don't, I can't. I'm either in it and I'm in it, or I'm not.

[00:21:41] Chris Coffin: I'm, I'm, I'm like that too, so I

[00:21:44] Kris Chatterson: Okay, so, I'll just, I'll kind of continue where I, where I was with, with the, the business thing and tie it into my art. And then, you know, uh, the, the pandemic hitting was a, was a huge kind of [00:22:00] event, I think for everybody.

[00:22:01] Kris Chatterson: But that plays into, to some of this too. anyways, I, I wanna say unintentionally, but obviously that's not quite true. But I found myself starting a business, getting involved in a very small way. I wanna be clear. It's a very small situation. Um, but getting involved with the surf business a little bit, I was getting to know people that had shops, people that liked the stuff I was doing, people offering to like sell it.

[00:22:40] Kris Chatterson: Some and some, some on consignment. Some would just buy some of what I had and, you know, wholesale and then, and then sell it. I was doing wetsuits. I was having these, um, custom made Japanese, rubber made in Japan, wetsuits made with, with my logo [00:23:00]on it. And, um, I won't get too much, too much into the details, but I, I reached a point where I knew if I walked through this particular, the door of this particular opportunity, I would pro I, I could probably really grow the thing into something for real, for real. And I probably wouldn't paint again. And at the end of the day, like my whole life from, from being a child, going through school, going to college. Um, before meeting Carrie and getting married, and then after the whole thing, my whole life has been pointed in the direction of living the life and, and doing, you know, having a career as a painter and I could just couldn't do it. I couldn't turn my back on who, who I am [00:24:00] and what, and what I aim to do in my life. And so I, I had to like, just, I just stopped and it wasn't, it wasn't even a, I didn't even hesitate. It's like I knew what it meant and I knew that, I think a lot of people like work really hard to kind of have that kind of an opportunity for like, trying to, to, to launch a small business in a way that could be for real. And I was like, I can't do it. I'm not gonna do it.

[00:24:37] Chris Coffin: Well, it would become all consuming and, and you'd, you'd leave that piece of yourself that you've always aspired to be, um, in the rear view mirror. You, you would leave it behind.

[00:24:50] Kris Chatterson: Yeah. And the, the, and it's the only, I guess the, the hard part of, of saying no to it is that I love small [00:25:00] businesses. I get excited, um, about my, all of my friends who have small businesses, whether it's a surf shop, I'm friends, uh, with my, got my friend Mike, who has a music shop down in Red Bank. Like I love small businesses and I'm, I'm actually good at it, you know, but I can't do it because the thing that I really do do, for real, for real, is paint. You know, I'm an artist and that's what I do.

[00:25:34] Chris Coffin: So, all right, so let's, all right. Here we are. You, you, you made the move. Um, you stopped surfing. Um, you, well, you, you're on sabbatical.

[00:25:45] Kris Chatterson: So, so it's, it's a little more so the, I stopped surfing because living in Rhode Island I got [00:26:00] very spoiled because I was five minutes from a variety of breaks that worked in a relative variety of directions or wind directions and, and swell directions could get up early and surf for. Sometimes I would, I would time myself and say, okay, I've got 20 minutes to get a handful of waves and get out, and I could still have a day.

[00:26:31] Kris Chatterson: I could still go about my day, and it's like not a thing. I'm about an hour away from waves now, and I just, I can't do it. I can't go through the whole, everything that it has to do. That goes into doing that.

[00:26:57] Chris Coffin: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:57] Kris Chatterson: Also, [00:27:00] one of the main reasons, not, not all of the reasons, but one of the big reasons moving back closer to New York, um, is for, was for my career. know, moving to Rhode Island really didn't do my, my showing career any favors. Um, it was very difficult to get anybody to come out or see things and. You know, getting, getting a bunch of likes and followers and all that on social media is fine. And getting comments and people like cheering you on is fine. But turning that into shows is a completely different thing.

[00:27:41] Chris Coffin: Right.

[00:27:42] Kris Chatterson: And I wanted to, I wanted to have a studio that was closer so I could have more people by, 'cause I think a special thing about living in a kind of dense area where you have a lot of people kind of doing a similar thing as, [00:28:00] as you is, you have that, um, compression of ideas where you're bounced constantly bouncing ideas off of one another.

[00:28:09] Kris Chatterson: So having people over to the studio to talk to and going visit other people's studios and is going to visit work and it not taking like a half day or longer to go do it and to keep things fresh and moving. Something that I, I kind of lost out on when I moved to Rhode Island. Now I say that, but I wanna follow that with, I was burnt out when we moved to Rhode Island, so there was a part of like living the kind of art life in New York that I was purposely leaving behind because it wasn't sustainable for me, you know, psychologically and emotionally.

[00:28:52] Kris Chatterson: I, I really needed a break from it all because the life I was living [00:29:00] prior to moving to Rhode Island was, you know, was working all the time in the studio, going to other studio visits, uh, was heavily involved in, in a, in several, a couple blogs, two of which I, I started, one I started and one I co-star curating shows it was, and then having a child on top of that.

[00:29:21] Kris Chatterson: And then when you're a kind of a person where. You're like making moves and you're, you're curating people into shows and like I, for, for a time I was doing interviews for like Bomb Magazine. I was kind of making a name for myself and then you start getting pulled in all these different directions and I really just wanted to focus on, you know, raising my two young children,

[00:29:45] Chris Labzda: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:46] Kris Chatterson: being the best partner I could be to carry and developing as an artist.

[00:29:53] Chris Coffin: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:53] Kris Chatterson: And so that's, that's another reason we packed up and moved the, the, [00:30:00] so fast forward eight years, a lot had happened. Um, a pandemic hits. Now our plan in Rhode Island was we wanted to stay for as long as the kids were in school. We wanted to get them out of high school.

[00:30:20] Chris Labzda: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:21] Kris Chatterson: And then see where they land. And then we always knew we would move somewhere else when we were done and the kids were grown, we would move either back this direction or maybe go out west or wherever.

[00:30:34] Kris Chatterson: But then the pandemic hit and we're all stuck at home and we're really seeing this other side. I won't get too into the details, we're just seeing this other side of the area we were living in that I really wasn't a fan of. And so we, it was kind of c coming toward, we were at the end of lockdown, but it was still 2020.

[00:30:57] Kris Chatterson: So like, you know, everybody was still [00:31:00] wearing masks and it was, you know, you were still encouraged to like, not be in like large groups of people and all of that. But we were, we were riding around, um, Providence and, you know, it was during that time, I, I kind of. I was in charge of, um, my kids and their school.

[00:31:25] Kris Chatterson: I dunno if you remember when we were doing the homeschool thing, remote learning. Remote learning as they called it. Um, basically I was, I felt like I was like a teacher's assistant because we would get all of the assignments in and then I would make sure each kid was doing what they needed to be doing, or they were on the live feed that they needed to be on, or they were turning the thing in that they needed to turn in.

[00:31:47] Kris Chatterson: Um, so being in charge of all of that, there was, it was no time to do anything. It was no time to surf, no time to make art. Um, which is fine. Like, you know, the, we, it was a, it was an emergency [00:32:00] situation, you know, glad I could be there and, and, and help my family. But, you know, the way I've talked about it, I think with you, uh, Chris is felt like we all kind of jumped off the treadmill.

[00:32:13] Kris Chatterson: I. Did we been like, kind of doing day in and day out prior to that and having come off it and had a chance to like really sit and reflect on things. Um, one day we were driving around Providence and I was like, you know, I really, really miss being in a city. I, I, I loved, I loved being in the, the more country part of, of Rhode Island.

[00:32:40] Kris Chatterson: And it's, it's very picturesque and, and and beautiful. Um, but there's that part of me that I like being around people, um, that are like doing things, having ideas and, and, and it being quick and easy to like, you know, go down the street and you're at a coffee shop and you go over [00:33:00] here and you're at the art supply store and you go over here and there's a bar and maybe there's a music venue and like, it's easy to get to places, uh, where a lot of people are doing, um, cool things.

[00:33:11] Kris Chatterson: And Providence definitely has. That, like, there's the cool things going on in Providence and there's, there's actually a really cool music history, um, in Providence and cool music coming out of Providence now. Um, but as we were driving around thinking, well, maybe, maybe we'll move to Providence, I was like, no big deal.

[00:33:30] Kris Chatterson: Like, you know, jetting down to, to go surfing, no problem. Like, I'm, you know, I'll, I'll do that. But then we were driving around and we're like, you know, if we're gonna move to like an urban area, let's just go back,

[00:33:46] Chris Coffin: Go back to where you came from because

[00:33:49] Kris Chatterson: back. And I mean, and like again, we're in the suburbs of New Jersey. We're not really back, you know, like we're not in, we're not in Brooklyn like [00:34:00] reliving our, our life, you know, that we had whatever, 15 years ago or more, but I. And it took, it took some kind of convincing too, uh, on both our parts because we, we had really settled in on the idea of like, we're just gonna be here for the duration of our, uh, kids' education, you know, but we, we were kind of open and we, we came down and visited like Maplewood, south Orange area, visited some friends, rented a hotel in, in 2020, like in that summer and was like, you know, this is, this is cool.

[00:34:46] Kris Chatterson: Like, we can have a house and we'll have a yard and like having a dog won't be an issue. And, um, Jersey City, which is where my studio is, it's just down the way. It's like 15 minute drive. And I have a big beautiful studio. [00:35:00] Um, which as for, for me, the kind of artist I am having the studio is a huge thing.

[00:35:08] Kris Chatterson: And I didn't really realize that until I didn't have a studio and I was working out of the basement of the house that we had. Um, then I realized like, this is really hard. Like trying to make, like really trying to make work at a high level and I can barely see it.

[00:35:24] Chris Coffin: Yeah. Yes. You just gotta be able to have the space to back away from it or to just kinda live within the space to make the work that you wanna make.

[00:35:33] Kris Chatterson: Yeah. Well, and I, I had an experience. I, I had a friend that we, he did a, um, we did like a FaceTime studio visit 'cause he hadn't seen my work in a minute and I was showing him all this stuff and I had this one painting to the side and I wasn't, I wasn't showing it to him. And he's like, what's that painting?

[00:35:56] Kris Chatterson: I'm like, nah, that, that's trash. Trust me. Like, you don't, it's, it's a garbage [00:36:00] piece. I don't, I don't like it. He's like, just pull it out. I'm like, listen, I'm gonna show it to you, but I'm telling you. No, you know, and I pull it out and he's like, maybe, maybe you're not seeing what I'm seeing, but like, this is a really great painting.

[00:36:15] Kris Chatterson: Like, but you have, you, you have, because he was seeing it and it was a bigger painting in a space that doesn't really accommodate a big, a big painting, but he was seeing it on a screen like this big, right? So he can actually see the painting, you know, he could see what it was. And so I took a picture of it and I shrunk it down on my phone.

[00:36:35] Kris Chatterson: I was like, okay, I, now I get it.

[00:36:37] Chris Coffin: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:38] Kris Chatterson: So I'm having these experiences of like, man, I'm not like as a painter and an artist, I'm not in the right place. You know, like I, I came to the right place at the time that I needed to be, but I think my time has changed. Like now I think I need to be somewhere else.

[00:36:57] Kris Chatterson: I need to head in a different direction now [00:37:00] because that, that part of my life I. It's over. Uh, and that all,

[00:37:06] Chris Coffin: that's the gr that's the growth and the, and, and the evolution part that I, I love, I love and I respect, I mean, I, and let, I wanna segue into music, and I've been thinking a lot about music because, um, I always find a lot of inspiration in musicians that, um, endure time and they continue to put out albums and, you know, people are like, oh, it doesn't sound like they're old stuff.

[00:37:32] Chris Coffin: And I'm like, of course it doesn't.

[00:37:34] Kris Chatterson: it's, I hope it doesn't,

[00:37:35] Chris Coffin: Of course. Yeah, of course it doesn't. You know, and it's, it's funny, I, I always look at, you know, like U2, you know, like I, I mean, I saw you too when I was like 14 or 15 years old at a tiny little nightclub in Lido Beach. At the Malibu nightclub. Right. Um, I, I, I, I saw them in their infancy when they came to the United States and, you know, I grew up with them and, and then, then [00:38:00] all of a sudden people are like, oh, they're sellouts, they suck.

[00:38:02] Chris Coffin: And like, you know, they're, and I'm like, hold on a second. I'm like, they're just growing as artists. They're not sellouts, they don't suck. They're just growing and they're different than they used to be. Right. So,

[00:38:13] Chris Labzda: No, I think they should stop making music.

[00:38:16] Chris Coffin: uh, well, I mean, like, say, you know, say what you want. I, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just interested in, in the arc of a career. I mean, I'm interested in, I'm interested in the evolution of, of, you know, creativity.

[00:38:28] Kris Chatterson: a lot of that, so like the, the, the, like the career part, like a lot of that's outta your hands, like, you know, because if, if you did have that much control over it, everybody would be successful yet in some way. Like everybody would have the, the, whatever the career you, you hope you could have. But a lot of, a lot of it is really outta your control.

[00:38:50] Kris Chatterson: I was, um, actually, uh, the first night I saw you at, at, at my, uh, the opening for that group show, I ran into a friend in, in the [00:39:00] subway while we were, I was taking my son to a, um, a music show at the Warsaw after. And we got to talking about, you know, artists of a certain age who, like, who, who are the peers of people that are like, have really made it, that are like at that like blue chip level gallery.

[00:39:19] Kris Chatterson: Um, and they're really that caliber of a painter, but their career just hadn't really gotten there yet, you know, for whatever reason. And it's like so much we were talking about how so much of this is just out of your control. Like, you know, when you've been in this long enough and you, and you have like a long enough arc of a career.

[00:39:40] Kris Chatterson: I think it was Chuck Close said something to this effect. It's like we're all confident. It's not that at this stage in the game, anybody's, you know, measurably better than anybody else. It's just, it's those uncontrolled factors that are at play as to like, who, [00:40:00] who, who wants to take you on as a, as a gallery or what collectors, or what curator, or, you know, you were, you were in this group show and this critic saw you, or this collector saw you and now you're over here.

[00:40:14] Kris Chatterson: Like, you just, there's no control over that.

[00:40:16] Chris Coffin: Right. Well, you know, I think, well, I, I wanna, I wanna go back to something that I, I remember as you were leaving, getting ready to leave Rhode Island in, maybe in the last like couple of months you were experimenting with, um, sound

[00:40:36] Kris Chatterson: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:36] Chris Coffin: were, and you know, you were experimenting with like, feedback and, um, you had made some experimental pieces and I was really interested in that.

[00:40:50] Chris Coffin: And, you know, jump a year or two later, you are now, and it's completely [00:41:00] invested in the pursuit of music. And I feel like your musical pursuits right now is what your surfing used to be. That's the way I see it. And I wanted you to kind of like talk a little bit about like where you are right now with, um, the dot tones and, um, I know that that kind of, uh, maybe had inspired you to create your, your punk rock poster series.

[00:41:33] Chris Coffin: Um, and I know we were talking a lot about, uh, community, um, DIY. Um, there's, so, there's so much going on there in your interest in music and, and punk rock community, and I feel like that's where you are now. That's your evolution. And when, when you, when you said to me, you know, I go where the energy is, I'm like, that's your energy now.

[00:41:57] Chris Coffin: That's, that's where you're finding your inspiration and it's, [00:42:00] it's definitely seeping into the work that you're making now. Where, when you were in Rhode Island, I feel like surfing was seeping into your work, and I feel like now there's this like, undercurrent of music informing your work. Um, and I'm not so sure that surfing has left your work, but

[00:42:22] Kris Chatterson: Totally not,

[00:42:23] Chris Coffin: yeah, I, I, so I want you to talk about that, your interest in music and like how it's in influencing what you're doing.

[00:42:29] Chris Coffin: And so, because there's a whole new you, there's a whole new chapter going on.

[00:42:34] Kris Chatterson: I, I'll agree that there's definitely a new chapter. The, the music I've always, there's always been like a music, even just as a fan or as, as someone who was, uh, naively misunderstanding ways music were, were made. But using that idea as, as a, as a framework to make a painting. [00:43:00] Um, music's always been there in, in the work.

[00:43:05] Kris Chatterson: I, especially the kind of abstraction that I make, uh, I think it lends itself to,

[00:43:16] Kris Chatterson: I wanna say like other activities, other creative activities to kind of bleed into because of the, the movement. So it lends itself to like athletic gestures, whether it's dance or surfing or what have you. And then there's a lyricism, um, and a repetitiveness to it that lends itself to things like music and flow and waves and ideas like that.

[00:43:44] Kris Chatterson: But so a more direct influence definitely is, um, comes out of having the Doone, which is a band that started off with just, just my family. [00:44:00] Um, and it really got started. Uh, so my oldest son plays bass and he start, he started playing bass before we moved, and there's a longer conversation that we can get into if you want us to, how the whole music thing got started.

[00:44:14] Kris Chatterson: But he, he had an interest in playing bass. Uh, so he started playing bass in Rhode Island. We moved here, continued to play bass. He currently plays bass in the, in the middle school jazz band. Um, and, and he plays bass in the dot tones. But we, when we were starting the band, he was like, you know, I really want mom to be in the band too.

[00:44:36] Kris Chatterson: And I wanna just be very clear, Carrie had never touched a guitar in any meaningful way prior to the dot tone. She, she

[00:44:47] Chris Coffin: I, I love that.

[00:44:48] Kris Chatterson: from zero to a hundred. And it's all because my oldest was like, I want mom in the band. And she said, okay. And then, and then she [00:45:00] backed it up. Like she's, she practiced, I, I got her a guitar and an amp and then she has since like gotten the bug.

[00:45:07] Kris Chatterson: Like now she has Nice, she's really into like the lap steel right now. But like, she has a cool amp and like she's into buying pedals and like, we're boat, we're like. Gear Hounds now we, we go, we have a, my friend Mike has a great music shop in, in Red Bank. Well, I have to say it's not a regular music shop at all.

[00:45:28] Kris Chatterson: Like Mike is is a different, uh, kind of person. He is a different kind of business owner. He is also a, a musician, a guitar player, and he has a band.

[00:45:37] Chris Labzda: Because that's like 10 minutes from my house.

[00:45:41] Kris Chatterson: Yeah, it's called Relic Music.

[00:45:43] Chris Labzda: Okay. Yeah, I know that one. Cool. I.

[00:45:45] Kris Chatterson: Yeah, no, yeah. Everyone in there is great. Um, but, and like, and he's also very encouraging, like out outside of, of, of his business. He is like, he's been very instrumental in like [00:46:00] helping like point us in a direction. I'll give you an example. So when we started out, it was, I'm on guitar, Carrie's on guitar, oldest is on bass, youngest was on drums and vocal.

[00:46:15] Kris Chatterson: My youngest is a natural born front person.

[00:46:19] Chris Coffin: Dude, wild Wilder is Iggy Pop.

[00:46:24] Kris Chatterson: while we named him, right? I'm gonna say we named him. Right. So anyways, we, we do it, we, so we have an Instagram and we're, we're having, we're all like, at the time, we're all very new at like, you know, being in a band and, and getting together and like trying, trying to sound good. Um, but then, but then doing it like, we don't care.

[00:46:44] Kris Chatterson: Like that's part of the punk spirit is, uh, I want to quote is that, um, one of the Ramones, I'm terrible with names, so don't come at me, anybody, because I don't know [00:47:00] somebody's name. I don't know hardly anybody's name, but it was one of the Ramones that's basically said he was having a conversation with somebody that wanted to start a band and like, and they were basically saying like, oh, you know, we're just waiting until we're good enough.

[00:47:11] Kris Chatterson: And he's like, well then you're never gonna be ready. Just do it. Just go do it. Like get your guitars, get in front of an audience and just do it. 'cause that's how you're really gonna know. Like that's when you're gonna know. Anyhow, we're, we're doing, we're doing these videos. And he, he, he wrote, he sent me a text.

[00:47:32] Kris Chatterson: He's like, listen, wilder out from behind the drum kit and get a drummer. He belongs in the spotlight. Like, put him in the spotlight. And we did. And the, it's the band has just taken off.

[00:47:48] Chris Labzda: That's great.

[00:47:49] Kris Chatterson: been like a pretty, pretty awesome experience. We've, we've played several live shows. We put on our own first show.

[00:47:56] Kris Chatterson: It was a Halloween special, two H [00:48:00] one, one or two Halloweens ago. Not this last Halloween, maybe it was the previous Halloween. Um, but we, we rented out a space and an Elk's Lodge. Keeping it full punk, you know, DIY and invited all of all of the kids' friends and our friends. We had people come in from, from Brooklyn and Manhattan and all over, uh, ordered a bunch of pizzas and just like we played 30 minutes of cramp songs.

[00:48:32] Chris Coffin: Yeah, talk, talk about some of, some of your influences. I think the influences are fantastic and the fact that your kids are indoctrinated into this, um, this style of music, and I think it's fantastic.

[00:48:46] Kris Chatterson: Yeah. Well, we, so before moving, we were listening to the Cramps and Learning Cramps songs. Um, first one being, uh, [00:49:00] way I Walk, which is a cover. Uh, the Cramps actually did a quite a few covers, but they kind of stripped them back and, and made them, um.

[00:49:13] Kris Chatterson: More up to date in terms of their, their timeline by adding, you know, different effects, but then pulling, pulling it back to like raw rock and roll, which is really the spirit of punk rock in a way. Is, is that the early punk anyways? Is that early? The early rock and roll. But there is a song, uh, way I walk and, and Wilder is definitely his own person.

[00:49:38] Kris Chatterson: He's not like any other, um, kid. And, you know, he sometimes will get a vibe, you know, without going into too much detail from, from people at school. But he still distinctly his own, like, he's not afraid to like, have his own style. Like he, he has a, a cheetah pattern coat that he [00:50:00] wears, you know, and like he, he likes, you know, things that are very kind of, um, flashy.

[00:50:08] Kris Chatterson: And like, like a, like a, a lead singer of a rock and roll band would,

[00:50:11] Chris Coffin: Right.

[00:50:12] Kris Chatterson: so that song is, the lyrics are, I, I, um, the way I walk is just the way I walk. It's like, so deal with it. And so we, we, that was our first song. And in a way I, he, he really liked it and I liked the song for him because it was like a way for him to like just say to everybody, I'm, I'm me.

[00:50:35] Kris Chatterson: It's like, and if you have a problem with it, that's a you problem.

[00:50:38] Chris Coffin: Right.

[00:50:39] Kris Chatterson: That's not a, that's not my problem.

[00:50:40] Chris Coffin: Well, it, it was interesting too because like it was at that point where like you could see the whole family begin to own it. Like this is, this is, this is not just a hobby. We are owning this and there's a lot of swagger there. There's a ton of swagger [00:51:00] and, and I know.

[00:51:01] Kris Chatterson: we, we walk around town. I'm not, I'm not joking, and it's, you know, we're, we're local, okay. But we can walk around town, whether we're South Orange, Maplewood, or, or even in West Orange. And people will be like, are you the Doones? I'm like, yeah. They're like, oh. Like it's a kick, dude. It's a kick.

[00:51:25] Chris Coffin: I love it. I love it. So, so, so we got the whole music thing going on that's essentially replaced surfing, um, in a very passionate way. Um, and you were embarking on, um, what preceded the punk rock posters. You were working on a body of work, uh, that was like a series of postcards that were like small scale.

[00:51:53] Chris Coffin: They were like small scale works that you were mailing to people.

[00:51:57] Kris Chatterson: that, those are, those were punk rock [00:52:00] postcards.

[00:52:00] Chris Coffin: Yeah.

[00:52:01] Kris Chatterson: It's all connected. Well, abstract. I was calling them abstract punk rock postcards. So I'll, I'm gonna interject a little bit here. Just 'cause it, I'm, it goes, it goes to what you're talking about, uh, when we were discussing going where the energy is. we move, I get a studio and I'm, and I'm make, I start making work and I, I'm trying to pick up where I left off in Rhode Island, just as a way to get the ball rolling.

[00:52:29] Kris Chatterson: And I, I feel like I'm making, you know, good work. I'm still being shy about, um, showing it to, to many people because I, I won't, I won't get into it. It's another conversation. But I, I feel like, you know, I have to work on something, get, get an idea rolling long enough to, like, before I'm really ready to share it.

[00:52:49] Kris Chatterson: Like I want to develop it. Um, anyhow, two years go by. The dot tone are happening. We're, we're a full on, you know, [00:53:00] punk band doing shows. And I, I, I come back in the studio one day, actually, I had a studio visit with somebody who was looking at my work and we were talking about like ephemera, like punk rock, ephemera, like zines and posters and flyers.

[00:53:16] Kris Chatterson: And I just, I'm just gonna quickly say that all ties to the work I was making before moving to Rhode Island. I was making these paintings that were, um,

[00:53:30] Kris Chatterson: I referred to them as like the transfer paintings because there was a process of like working things in the computer and then transferring imagery onto a painting to kind of blend a, kind of a, like a digital collaging element into like the, the wet kind of paint, um, process. that was.

[00:53:51] Chris Labzda: Put you in like the same. Grouping of artists like Kate Statute and Letha Wilson who do similar [00:54:00] things. I I never really thought about that with your practice till you just said that, which is kind of cool. Um, would you agree that those contemporaries are kind of in that, right? Yeah.

[00:54:15] Kris Chatterson: Yeah. And, and in the way that they're, they're kind of challenging materials and challenging, like the idea of like traditional, like within le with Lisa let's, um, example, use using like concrete and photographs to make a sculpture

[00:54:35] Chris Labzda: Yeah.

[00:54:36] Kris Chatterson: is like wild. Like, and I love it. And you know, in my case, using abstract, like a reproduction of abstract imagery.

[00:54:46] Kris Chatterson: Basically paste it on top of, in a transparent way, more abstract imagery to arrive at an image. But that the i part, part of where, where it's coming into the music thing is [00:55:00] the, the, the kind of pasting up this re these repetitive things and then the pulling them down, um, kind of like week poster thing was very much, you know, what I was thinking about.

[00:55:15] Kris Chatterson: Um, with that work then fast forward to now, I, I'm, I'm thinking about not just the, not so much the imagery, like the literal imagery of like something that is punk rock or hardcore or some kind of like music thing, but the what, what the feeling of that is and then what the intention behind that music is.

[00:55:43] Kris Chatterson: A lot of that music and especially the earlier recordings, it's done in very few takes. There's not a lot of overdubs. There's mistakes, but it, they weren't going for perfection. They were going for harnessing a kind of [00:56:00] energy, harnessing a

[00:56:01] Chris Labzda: That early work, that early work that people produce it, it's raw, it's, you know, there are mistakes and I feel like that's, um. It's difficult for artists. Maybe you would agree. I'd, I'd like your opinion on this. Um, 'cause you have a long career now, but like, you, you become branded. Like I look at your work and I go, that's a, I could go walk into a go.

[00:56:23] Chris Labzda: That's a Chris Jerson, even if it's a new thing. Like, I can recognize your work. Um, and how do you deal with that at this point? Having made all these moves, like, do you feel kind of like you have to now make those identifiable pieces again that wind up in this show? Or is it still evolving? Like, I see it evolving, but how do you feel about that process?

[00:56:47] Chris Labzda: 'cause it's, you're at that point in your career where, not that you're stuck making the thing, but you're like, it, it's, it, it becomes like how like [00:57:00] identifiable and you, you almost have to continue doing that, if that makes sense. How like.

[00:57:06] Kris Chatterson: Yeah, and it's, it's, it's all of the above. It, it is evolving and I sometimes, I actually had a really great visit with the person that runs Satchel, and we kind of talked, we talked about that a little bit, and she was like, you know, it's kinda like what you said, it's still gonna look like your work,

[00:57:27] Chris Labzda: Yeah.

[00:57:27] Kris Chatterson: whether it has this, like this thing.

[00:57:31] Kris Chatterson: Or this process that you're, you were known for, or if it's this other thing, like she, I can still tell it's you. And that kind of gave me permission in a way, hearing her her say that, that, okay, well I'm not gonna worry about that so much, and I'm just gonna, you know, back to what we were talking about, just follow the energy and just let things develop.

[00:57:53] Kris Chatterson: Um, interestingly, one of the paintings she picked out for the show was a painting. I kind of had like, stash over in the corner [00:58:00] and I wasn't gonna show, you know, because it didn't, in my mind, it didn't fit the, like, the bigger picture of like, the work that I was, I was showing her. And, uh, and she's very, she has a very keen eye and she's like, what's that one over there?

[00:58:15] Kris Chatterson: And I was like, no, no, no, I don't, I don't know. And I, I brought it over and she was like, no, that's, that's something I. Like, that's, that's a really nice painting. I really like that. And then she sent me, when she started, when she was curating the show, she sent a picture of it that she had taken. She's like, can you send me this one?

[00:58:33] Kris Chatterson: I didn't even know she took a picture of it.

[00:58:36] Chris Coffin: Right.

[00:58:37] Kris Chatterson: So it's, it's, it's one of those things where, again, like, I'm not, I'm not as in control of, of all of this and that at this le at the point I'm at in my career, it, it, regardless of what I make, you know, it's still gonna look like what I make,

[00:58:56] Chris Labzda: Yeah.

[00:58:57] Kris Chatterson: you know? And, and actually having, [00:59:00] having her, having her, you know, pick that painting out and, and, and talk about that painting is, I'm like, I'm kind of rethinking some of the work now and like allowing other things in that I thought maybe I shouldn't let in.

[00:59:15] Chris Labzda: Yeah, I was thinking about what Chris was saying about, um, Chris Coffin, about like, you too. And like how I said, you know, I wish they stopped making music at a certain point because I don't like the later stuff. And I always wondered about like, artists, like, um, like I love Cindy Sherman's early photographs.

[00:59:33] Kris Chatterson: Mm-hmm.

[00:59:34] Chris Labzda: Her contemporary stuff is just like, it seems like she's trapped in making these repetitive things that are kind of along the same vein, but now she's using like prosthetics and it looks like, I don't know, like a McCarthy thing. And um, I'm like, wow, I must suck to be like pigeonholed in that. And, um.

[00:59:57] Chris Labzda: Similarly, like if you saw the de Kooning [01:00:00] retrospective, it was sad because you could tell he was tired at the end. And like I always walk through like I love his work, but at the end I'm like, holy shit. Like how exhausted is he?

[01:00:09] Chris Coffin: Do you know? I'll tell, I'll tell you. I, I like the late, I like the late paintings. I, I, oh no. I like them for what they are. I like, I like them as, as the final chapter in the arc of this person's career. And when I look at them, I'm not comparing them to the heroic work of, of the abstract expressionist, you know, you know, era of the post-war era.

[01:00:34] Chris Coffin: I. I look at them as the last works that this man made, and they still are his, I can see his hand in the work.

[01:00:45] Chris Labzda: absolutely.

[01:00:46] Chris Coffin: I don't, I don't like them as much, but that doesn't mean that, I don't know. That's like, you know, when we talk about you too, it's like, I don't like it as much and we know it's not as good, but like, doesn't mean that it's bad.

[01:00:59] Chris Coffin: I, [01:01:00] because I'm looking at the macroscopic arc of the career. That's what I'm looking at.

[01:01:04] Chris Labzda: Yeah. So you're looking at it as, okay, but like I look at your work and I see it evolving. I like where it's going and I'm like, but it's still a chatter. And um, with all the moves you've made, it's kind of, now I was, I was very happy to get one in the mail,

[01:01:17] Kris Chatterson: Oh, thanks. Thanks. Well, you know,

[01:01:22] Chris Labzda: that, like are you, do you still have like, you get studio visits in the oranges right now? Is it the same? Because I remember getting studio visits in Ridgewood was impossible

[01:01:30] Kris Chatterson: well, I, my studio, I'm, I'm in the MANA building in Jersey City, so it hasn't it, I've been, I've been pretty, it's been pretty easy, you know, 'cause people can just take the path and walk over.

[01:01:42] Chris Labzda: Amazing.

[01:01:43] Kris Chatterson: Um, and it's a great building. Like, I love the building. I feel like, you know. A professional, if that, if that makes any sense.

[01:01:54] Kris Chatterson: It's just, you know, there's security and there's a, there's a cafe, there's galleries, [01:02:00] there's always people running around doing interesting things. There's, there's artists in the building, but there's also like fashion people and like, I don't know,

[01:02:09] Chris Labzda: Yeah,

[01:02:10] Kris Chatterson: it's photographers, there's always cool stuff going on,

[01:02:13] Chris Coffin: Mm-hmm.

[01:02:14] Kris Chatterson: so it's nice to feel like there are other people doing cool things.

[01:02:20] Chris Labzda: Yeah.

[01:02:21] Chris Coffin: Um, I enjoy, and I know we've talked about this over the years, Chris, um. We've talked about social media and the use of social media, and sometimes, uh, the fallacy of, of social media or the ability to craft a story or the ability to represent yourself or to erroneously craft a story. Um, and I think we've always talked about the fact that we have this love hate relationship with it.

[01:02:52] Chris Coffin: Um, but one thing, one thing that I do enjoy, um, and I I find it a whole lot of fun are your [01:03:00] posts because you deny the viewer, um, a lot of what you're doing. And I think that's an interesting story that you tell through images. Um, and every once in a while you get a glimpse of like the corner of a painting or a splatter of paint on the floor and, uh.

[01:03:25] Chris Coffin: Uh, it, it leaves the viewer wanting more. It's very enticing. So, te tell me, tell us about that.

[01:03:33] Kris Chatterson: Well, that's, I'll just, it's, it's partly a strategy in that the,

[01:03:40] Chris Coffin: It's, it's definitely a strategy and I like it. I like it.

[01:03:44] Kris Chatterson: well, the, the algorithm needs to be fed, right, or else the, it won't, the, it won't shoot you out there. You, you also want to still be in people's memory or beginners that there is [01:04:00] a very true saying, like outta sight, outta mind.

[01:04:03] Chris Labzda: Mm-hmm.

[01:04:04] Kris Chatterson: So you just want people to know you're working and you want the algorithm to know that you're still breathing.

[01:04:10] Kris Chatterson: Right. That's part of it. The other part though, is I really believe in like an artist needs time to develop an idea. And when an idea is developing, it's not always meant for public view.

[01:04:26] Chris Coffin: Mm-hmm.

[01:04:28] Kris Chatterson: Right now, if people coming to my studio and we're, we're having hard conversations and like really getting into it, that has to happen first and the work develops, then it's ready for public view.

[01:04:46] Kris Chatterson: I'm not, at this point in my life and in and in my career, I'm not, I'm not under, and this is kind of a thing that happened while in Rhode Island really is I've, I've, [01:05:00]I've gained this sense of, I'm ready when I'm ready and not a moment too soon. I'm not gonna force it. In fact, when I do force it, it doesn't, it doesn't come out as good as it could have.

[01:05:13] Kris Chatterson: It's when I'm relaxed and, um, have a lot of different things happening. So, you know, some, some paintings happen fast and they just kind of, uh, use the term my mentor would use back in the day, just fall outta your head. And then some paintings take like months and it's, it's just months of looking and waiting.

[01:05:40] Kris Chatterson: Um, you know, David Lynch just passed away not long ago, so I've been, I've been listening to a lot of his conversations that he's had, and one of the things he keeps talking about is the importance of, um, giving yourself time and space to [01:06:00] go to go fishing for ideas. He talks about it in this very matter of fact way that, that I resonate with it was like, yeah, that's what it is.

[01:06:09] Kris Chatterson: Like, you know, he's like, oh, I'm, I, I go and I try to catch an idea, and when I catch an idea, I, I then try to, you know, I'll write it in his case, being most a filmmaker and, and a painter, but, you know, he was like making notes and writing it down. And in my case, I have to be, and this is where the kind of exiting from surfing also ties in. I have to be in my studio to make work. And being in my studio is where I catch the ideas and then put them down in real time. I have, currently, I have about 20 paintings or more all in various states of progress. And when I'm working, I'm, I go in and, and I, I look and I listen and whichever painting [01:07:00] or groups of paintings.

[01:07:01] Kris Chatterson: This is gonna sound crazy to people that, that are not creative, but I'm just gonna talk about it anyways. the, there'll be a certain a, a painting or a couple of paintings, and they'll start talking to me. And what I mean by that is I'll start to have a vision for like, what could be next. Uh, I'll get like a flash of a color or like a move or like a, a series of patterns.

[01:07:23] Kris Chatterson: And as soon as I have it, the moment I have it, I take the painting down and I, and I do that thing. And then usually after the one, then ideas start rolling

[01:07:35] Chris Labzda: Hmm.

[01:07:35] Kris Chatterson: this and, and I'm catching ideas, I'm fishing, you know, and then I kind of laugh to myself. I'm like, I'm fucking David Lynch over here catching ideas.

[01:07:43] Kris Chatterson: This is great.

[01:07:45] Chris Coffin: Oh man.

[01:07:48] Kris Chatterson: But that's, that's when I moved to Rhode Island and. We had a, we had a second [01:08:00] child Wilder, and I was, and I was trying to work and I say trying to work because it's, that's what it really was. I was trying to work, I wasn't really able to work, work. I was trying to work. It occurred to me, and I don't, and I couldn't, I couldn't be honest with myself about it at the time, even though I knew it to be true, I knew it would be a while before I could work at the level that I was working prior, because there is a truth to having hours and hours long sessions in the studio, uninterrupted.

[01:08:38] Chris Coffin: Well, I, I was talking about this with, uh, with John today. Um, I actually met up with John Baylor at the coffee shop afterwards. Um, and, uh, we were just talking about kids and we were talk, and, you know, he said, oh, how old's your son now? And I'm like, 15. He's like, oh my God. He's like, how did [01:09:00] that happen? And I'm just like,

[01:09:01] Kris Chatterson: it's a different world. Teenagers.

[01:09:03] Chris Coffin: well, you know, we were, I, I, you know, I said to him, I said, dude, you're, you're just, you're coming out of the weeds.

[01:09:09] Chris Coffin: I go, you're gonna find more free time. And I think also, like you were in Rhode Island for a reason. And, um, that, that reason was family and raising kids at a, at a moment in time where it was really important while they were young and, and now they're self, well, not fully self-sufficient, but they're their, their own little young people.

[01:09:31] Chris Coffin: And now you can find the time, you can give yourself that gift of time so that, that continuity in the studio is, is just a byproduct of your kids getting older too.

[01:09:40] Kris Chatterson: Yeah. Well that's, that was also part of how we ended up back in this direction is, you know. Once we decided like, okay, it, it's time to go. Part of that decision was like, well, you know, the kids are not what they were, you know, they're not [01:10:00] toddlers. You know, at the time my oldest was in fourth grade and Wilder was in like first. Yeah. And so when we moved middle midyear, um, Jackson finished fourth grade here and Wilder finished second grade here.

[01:10:19] Kris Chatterson: So we mid we, we moved midway. But that was part of the like, oh, you know, they don't need us the way that they did before.

[01:10:29] Chris Coffin: much. Right. It changes. Yeah.

[01:10:31] Kris Chatterson: It totally, so, you know, our routine now is I get up really early and, and I work a full eight hours and I come home in time for, uh, them to come home. so, so Carrie kind of gets them out the door.

[01:10:48] Kris Chatterson: Then I'm home to like, welcome them back home and give 'em a snack. And you know, by that point it's, make sure homework's done and then get dinner ready and that whole thing. [01:11:00] And it's, it's not, uh, it's not a hard thing to do at all. It's very, they, they can take care of themselves. They can feed themselves breakfast and

[01:11:10] Chris Labzda: This is so nice to hear, but I'm so in the thick of it guys.

[01:11:14] Chris Coffin: Yeah. Yeah. I was like,

[01:11:16] Kris Chatterson: in a different world, dude. You're in a different world.

[01:11:18] Chris Labzda: I must say, like I, I knew that I could ask you both to start this podcast a couple minutes late 'cause you both have children.

[01:11:26] Kris Chatterson: Yeah. No big deal.

[01:11:27] Chris Labzda: but like, I've got a, a three-year-old, a five-year-old, and a 7-year-old,

[01:11:32] Chris Coffin: Yeah,

[01:11:32] Kris Chatterson: deep in it.

[01:11:33] Chris Coffin: you're in it, man,

[01:11:34] Chris Labzda: I actually got in the water day and I was like, that's amazing. Um, but I had to cancel a dinner and every, and, but it, it is a thing where you're like, you really understand the value of time after having children.

[01:11:48] Chris Coffin: Yeah.

[01:11:49] Kris Chatterson: Well, and that, that, that time isn't just yours all the time.

[01:11:54] Chris Labzda: no,

[01:11:55] Kris Chatterson: You know,

[01:11:56] Chris Labzda: and, but I appreciate you saying that, that you're getting up, you're getting out the [01:12:00] door, you're making it work with your wife, you know, you've maintained an active and lucrative art practice. Like that wasn't easy, especially with all the moves you've made. So, you know, I look forward to seeing more of the work.

[01:12:14] Chris Labzda: Like, I, I definitely wanna do a studio visit soon. Um, now that you're down the road for me, like just up the road, but, you know, that's, that's huge. Like. Just hearing that is refreshing.

[01:12:28] Kris Chatterson: Yeah. Well, I, I'll say when, when, when I was in the thick of it, it's hard to to know that there's anything different,

[01:12:36] Chris Labzda: Yeah.

[01:12:37] Kris Chatterson: but you're probably seeing it a little bit with your 7-year-old now,

[01:12:42] Chris Labzda: Oh yeah.

[01:12:42] Kris Chatterson: but you're, you'll, there'll be a day and you'll be like, okay, they don't need me like that anymore.

[01:12:51] Chris Labzda: Yeah.

[01:12:52] Chris Coffin: Yeah,

[01:12:53] Kris Chatterson: a, it's like a bittersweet

[01:12:55] Chris Coffin: I agree with, I agree with you. I just, I just, [01:13:00] within the, and this, it's so funny, we're talking about nothing relating to ser related to surfing or art right now, but, um, yeah, I just recently had a conversation with somebody about, um, being sad,

[01:13:15] Kris Chatterson: Mm-hmm.

[01:13:16] Chris Coffin: being, being sad because like one day you wake up and you're like, wow, I can't, um, cuddle with my little.

[01:13:25] Chris Coffin: Baby anymore. I can't, you know, my, my, my son used to think that the, the son would, you know, rise and set with daddy and like we, he was my little buddy and we could do anything together. And it was great. And like now, like, you know, he comes home and he's grumpy and he just wants to like, play online with his friends and, you know, he, he eats and then disappears.

[01:13:49] Chris Coffin: And I'm like, but what about me? You know,

[01:13:51] Kris Chatterson: He.

[01:13:53] Chris Coffin: he's all grumpy and everything. And I'm just like, fine, dude. All right. I, I, [01:14:00] you'll, you'll come back. I know you'll, you'll be back

[01:14:03] Chris Labzda: so, so with Satchel is that we'll get back to the art. But with Satchel, is that, are you represented by them now or is that like a full-time thing? A one-off? Like does the

[01:14:13] Kris Chatterson: So it's a group show. So Satchel is an artist run space and they don't represent artists, but, and that gives her the freedom to just show who and what she wants to show when and where, which I think is great. I think it's, I love, I don't love all artist run spaces, but I really love her space and a handful of others.

[01:14:37] Kris Chatterson: But I, I think she's like a punk rock like outlet in the middle of, uh, Chelsea.

[01:14:46] Chris Labzda: Well, it's nice. It's not obligatory that she has to have a show like she wants you in that show. You

[01:14:52] Kris Chatterson: Yeah.

[01:14:53] Chris Labzda: know? She doesn't owe you that, which is

[01:14:55] Kris Chatterson: No, not at all. No. In fact, it was, [01:15:00] I just, um, so I had a visit with her the day after the election. I. Yeah, so it wasn't like a, nobody was in a great mood, but, you know, we did the visit and it was a, it was a really great visit. Like, um, and I did, I had no idea she was, and I don't, I don't think she was planning on the show either, and I wasn't expecting to be, um, in a show in her, in her space at anytime soon. But I, you know, three, four weeks ago I got a text, Hey, can you send me some images of those new, new paintings you're making? I'm like, sure. And I sent her and she's like, I'm doing this show. Do you want to be in it? I'm like, I'm in like anti-authoritarian. I'm in like, whatever, whatever you need. I, you know, I'm, I'm already, I don't need to know anything else.

[01:15:52] Kris Chatterson: If you're doing it. I'm in,

[01:15:54] Chris Labzda: Yeah. That's good. And how much longer does [01:16:00] this show up for?

[01:16:01] Kris Chatterson: I think two more weeks after this week.

[01:16:04] Chris Labzda: Alright.

[01:16:05] Chris Coffin: You gotta get in and see it. You got, it's a, it's a great space. It's a great bo it's a great group of work. Um, whatever I've, I've seen at that gallery. 'cause it's a, it's a new space, Chris. Right. I remember seeing, it was just kind of like a, a much smaller little space. And now it's a, a bigger, smaller space, which I li I like the scale of it.

[01:16:26] Chris Labzda: It's significant in size. I was checking it out. It's big for Chelsea.

[01:16:30] Kris Chatterson: Yeah, it's, so, it's March 6th through April 5th

[01:16:35] Chris Coffin: Hmm.

[01:16:36] Kris Chatterson: authority problem.

[01:16:38] Chris Coffin: Yeah. It's good.

[01:16:39] Kris Chatterson: And it's a great group of artists too. All different modes of working. Um, coming at at the idea from different ways is pretty great. And I'm, I didn't even know the, the, the artist list because I just, I trusted Andrea so much to like, [01:17:00] whatever she was gonna do, I knew it would be great.

[01:17:02] Chris Coffin: It's a very cohesive show. It's good. It's really good.

[01:17:05] Chris Labzda: Nice.

[01:17:06] Chris Coffin: Um, so, um, what's next really briefly, before we start winding down here, what's next?

[01:17:15] Kris Chatterson: All right. Well, I have to talk about chromatic twins,

[01:17:19] Chris Coffin: Yeah, for sure.

[01:17:20] Kris Chatterson: which is the band. Uh, well, it's more than a band that, uh, Carrie and I started, and it started off actually as a, as more of a visual art of collaboration, like collaboration between art and design with her and I, uh, because when we were in Rhode Island kind of under lockdown, I was like, we gotta find a way to work together because we're in our given kind of field or our buckets.

[01:17:52] Kris Chatterson: We're really good at what we do, and, but what we do is also kind of opposite. And if we could find a way to [01:18:00] like. Work together in some way. It could be, I think I thought it would be pretty powerful. And so we, we tried some things and it was, it kind of worked, but we could never, we couldn't get it to, to launch for whatever reason.

[01:18:14] Kris Chatterson: And a lot of it has to do with just the other things that happened in, in a, in your life. And we're doing the dot tone and I'm like, you know what? This is our collaboration. Like, we're really collaborating on, on this dot tone thing. Because a lot of, most, all of the, the visuals is all her, you know, she's doing the branding and the designing and all of that. And, um, I forget which one of us said it. I was like, what if we, uh, what if Chromatic Twins just became a collaboration between the two of us that involved music and we. Take some of our sound and music ideas and make it into something that's more than just music and [01:19:00] more than just visual art and make it one thing.

[01:19:04] Kris Chatterson: And, uh, we, so we've been reading a lot of music books and we read the, the craft workbook and, uh, I didn't know this. There's a German word that basically means like the, the artwork is like all encompassing. It's all, it's all of everything. And I'm probably gonna butcher it 'cause I don't speak German, but it's gesto skin's work and it's like, it means the work, the, the work of, of art is all of everything loose, loosely translated.

[01:19:36] Kris Chatterson: So craft work, it wasn't just the music, it was the design, it was the stage presence, it was the animations. And we actually just saw them on Friday, which is awesome.

[01:19:46] Chris Coffin: Yeah, they played in Brooklyn. They played in Brooklyn, didn't they?

[01:19:49] Kris Chatterson: They did Brooklyn and they did the beacon in Manhattan. So we went to, we went to that one. Uh, and so that's, that's one of [01:20:00] our, of our, um, influences in terms of having working sonically and like arranging music and sounds.

[01:20:11] Kris Chatterson: That's also aesthetic. Aesthetically too, you know, if you've seen any of the chromatic twin stuff we've done, like everything is considered from the clothes we're wearing to the backgrounds. We've, we are doing green screen so we can have like things happening in the background. It's like, it's all one thing.

[01:20:32] Kris Chatterson: The whole thing is the artwork.

[01:20:34] Chris Coffin: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I dig what you guys are doing. It's, it is very performance art based. You can see that everything is highly curated and, um. I was even talking with, with Carrie at the exhibition, I was like, I gotta get one of those t-shirts with the, uh, Venus Flytraps on 'em. And she was just like, oh, we have some of those, those are super cool.

[01:20:56] Chris Coffin: She's like, I made those, and I was like, they're cool. So, um, [01:21:00]yeah, it's all, it's all good. Um, so listen, let's, uh, I, I we're, we always do this thing called on the clock, and you know what on the clock is, it's a rapid fire succession of questions where we're just gonna throw some questions at you and you gotta answer 'em, and we're gonna move on.

[01:21:16] Kris Chatterson: Let's roll.

[01:21:18] Chris Coffin: Can you do it? All right. So,

[01:21:20] Kris Chatterson: go

[01:21:20] Chris Coffin: yeah. So, you know, it's, it was kind of tough because like, usually the, these questions are very surf centric and I was like,

[01:21:26] Chris Labzda: Yep.

[01:21:27] Chris Coffin: shit, I can't, I can't do that. I can't do that anymore. Um, all right, here you go. What is your favorite foot pedal and why?

[01:21:36] Kris Chatterson: my a guitar pedal.

[01:21:38] Chris Coffin: Yeah, because I know you have a bunch. I.

[01:21:43] Kris Chatterson: Yeah, that's a hard, hard choice. I'll say it's the, uh, my, uh, my sending V two delay by electro audio, electric audio experiments.

[01:21:58] Chris Coffin: And why do you like that [01:22:00] one?

[01:22:01] Kris Chatterson: It's a really good sounding delay that has modulation, so you can get kind of a, like a, um, almost like a coring, but also has these, I don't know if I'm using the right terminology, but there's, you can send the repeats out in a loop to another pedal so you can color the repeats so you're, whatever your guitar tone is going in stays what it is, but the repeats and the delay will be affected by whatever, whatever chain of pedals you have going through there.

[01:22:38] Kris Chatterson: So you could have it hooked up to a fuzz or you could have a hooked up to like a. Like a shimmering reverb and have them like kind of go off in outer space all still while maintaining the kind of pointedness or directness of whatever your initial guitar tone is.

[01:22:53] Chris Coffin: I love it. That's awesome. All right. What are you currently listening to? I know you listen to a ton, but what is [01:23:00] inspiring you right now?

[01:23:00] Chris Labzda: In the studio.

[01:23:02] Kris Chatterson: Okay. In the studio, I like a band I just kind of found out about, called Gustav. Um, they're, they're actually a New York band. They're really cool. I like, um, in the studio there's another band that just released a new album that I like that I found out about during the pandemic era, um, called Deep Sea Diver. Um, let's see, fonts, DC Idols,

[01:23:35] Chris Coffin: All that.

[01:23:37] Kris Chatterson: yeah, also some like older jazz. Older jazz, like Kenny Burrell,

[01:23:43] Chris Labzda: Mm-hmm.

[01:23:44] Kris Chatterson: let me look at my library real quick. 'cause I, I get, um, my memory's not what it used to be. I'll just say that. Oh, mannequin Pussy. They're a Philly

[01:23:59] Chris Coffin: Dude, [01:24:00] they're so good. I love

[01:24:01] Kris Chatterson: They're really good. They're really, and I, I found out about them maybe two albums ago and like, and I liked them and they, and I knew they were good, but this album in particular is, they've taken it to another level and they're, they've got this new guitar player who just rips and it's, and it's freed up.

[01:24:22] Kris Chatterson: I don't, I don't know her name, but the lead singer, I think at one point played guitar. But it's freed her up to just be the front person and just go all out and leave the guitar playing to, to the, to the new guitar player. And it just, it works

[01:24:38] Chris Coffin: They're fantastic. Uh, like I got clued into them and I think they played up in New Haven not too long ago and I couldn't make it, but, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm into them too. Um,

[01:24:51] Kris Chatterson: One. One more. One more. The the band. The band. I took Jackson to see the night of the opening. The spirit of the beehive. They're really [01:25:00] cool. Um, I'll just say they're genre fluid is the best way to describe them, but really cool. All right, go ahead.

[01:25:07] Chris Coffin: What's, what surfboard did you keep from your extensive quiver and why?

[01:25:14] Kris Chatterson: Oh man. It had to be my burrito deluxe, my little designs burrito, deluxe, because that, that was the board I rode the most,

[01:25:23] Chris Coffin: Mm-hmm.

[01:25:23] Kris Chatterson: you know, and also I kept all the boards that I had shaped to. I, I was, I couldn't, I couldn't let those go. But that for, there were certain breaks in Rhode Island where on the right day that was.

[01:25:39] Kris Chatterson: Even on the wrong day. It was like the board that I liked the most.

[01:25:42] Chris Coffin: Mm-hmm. I wrote your honey badger today.

[01:25:47] Kris Chatterson: Yeah, that's one too.

[01:25:50] Chris Coffin: oh, so good. Um, what visual artist are you most inspired by? Right now?

[01:25:59] Kris Chatterson: [01:26:00] Just one.

[01:26:04] Chris Coffin: Yeah.

[01:26:07] Kris Chatterson: I don't know. I don't know, and I don't want that to seem like a cop out, but I'm so deep into my language right now. My vocabulary in developing the work, I'm not really. There's like phases that I'll go through and I'll be, there'll be, see either a reception phase where I'm just looking at a lot of things and I'm like pulling a lot of information in and sorting it out. And then there's the opposite where I'm just like, I need to now I need to make the work and I'm in that, make the work phase.

[01:26:44] Kris Chatterson: And I, and that's not to say that I'm not influenced by people or I don't have, um, people that I look to, but I'm just, I'm not, I'm not in that head space right now.

[01:26:57] Chris Coffin: Yeah, I get it. Sometimes you gotta close the [01:27:00] door. Not look, I get it. All right, dude, this was great. This was great catching up. I think it's, uh, I think it's important to understand the, the evolution and, uh, the, the second chapter or maybe even third chapter.

[01:27:18] Chris Labzda: Yeah,

[01:27:18] Kris Chatterson: Yeah. And then the many chapters that come too,

[01:27:21] Chris Coffin: Yeah, no doubt.

[01:27:22] Kris Chatterson: it's cool stuff, cool stuff happening.

[01:27:24] Chris Labzda: going on. It's pretty exciting.

[01:27:27] Kris Chatterson: Oh, there's one thing I, I wrote down though. I was thinking, I thinking about what we would talk about and, um, going back to following the energy,

[01:27:38] Chris Coffin: Yeah.

[01:27:39] Kris Chatterson: like another, there's another component to that that I just kind of wanted to end on. And it has to do with where you put your energy is often what develops too. So there's a, there's like a balance going, going where the energy is is sometimes [01:28:00] also the place where you're putting the energy.

[01:28:02] Chris Coffin: Mm-hmm.

[01:28:03] Kris Chatterson: So be mindful of where you put your energy. 'cause that's what's gonna develop.

[01:28:11] Chris Labzda: Mm-hmm.

[01:28:13] Chris Coffin: So many, so many things about like adult prioritization that come to mind.

[01:28:22] Kris Chatterson: Yeah.

[01:28:24] Chris Coffin: Yeah. Yeah. What did, what did you, you, you said something, you said something to me the other day. Oh, man. I always, I always listen really hard to what people say, and I take sentences and I put them in my back pocket and I hang onto them.

[01:28:39] Chris Coffin: Um, I don't know. Uh, I'll remember, see there's, there's the memory thing. I can't remember. Oh,

[01:28:47] Kris Chatterson: Well, you know, um, thi going back to David Lynch and he was, he would talk about he living the art life, right? And there's a, [01:29:00] a level of, I don't know what's the right word, like. Dedication or, or like discipline that you, you have to have to give yourself the space and the time to catch those ideas and develop them. And there was a moment where I was, I was paddling out in Rhode Island and it was like an, it was like a mediocre day and I knew it was a day I might get a handful of waves and like, when I would be, it would be fine. And I was thinking like, is this, is this serving me in my real priorities in a meaningful way or am I just going surfing because it's like something to do?

[01:29:46] Kris Chatterson: Like should I, should I, shouldn't I really be in my studio working, ideas and developing that? And when, when you, for me, when I, when those like fissures [01:30:00] start to open, that's usually beginning of when the whole thing collapse.

[01:30:05] Chris Coffin: Mm-hmm. We were just talking, uh, this, this, our. I don't know. Our interview's probably pretty much over, but, um, we were, we were talking with, uh, another guest a few nights ago, uh, on another recording that we were doing. And we were talking about giving yourself the, the gift of silence or being present in the moment, or, you know, in relationship to surfing.

[01:30:37] Chris Coffin: Like understanding that like it will give to you what you need in that moment and you have to recognize when it's given to you. Like maybe the swell goes flat and that's nature speaking to you. That's nature saying is the time for you to go to your studio. And then when the waves [01:31:00] turn on, that's nature saying like, put that practice down for a little bit.

[01:31:05] Chris Coffin: And go extract some of that goodness that that experience is gonna give to you and bring it back into the studio. So, you know that, I think that kind of dovetails the, the prioritization that I think as adults we have to recognize, um, so that you can get your work done in a productive way, a mind a mindful way.

[01:31:32] Kris Chatterson: Totally.

[01:31:34] Chris Coffin: Yeah. Anyway.

[01:31:39] Chris Labzda: on that note, I'm gonna hit stop.

[01:31:41] Chris Coffin: Cool.

[01:31:42] Chris Labzda: Uh, Chris, it's been amazing. Um. [01:32:00]