Resistance and Liberation with Zane Elias

[00:00:38] Tyler: [00:01:00] Hello, and welcome to the Swell Season Surf Podcast. I'm your host, Tyler Brewer. To say the last year has been painful and emotional for Palestinians the world over is a massive understatement. Words can't possibly express the depth of their hurt and fear. 7th when I spoke to a Palestinian American, Zayn Elias.

[00:01:47] Tyler: Our conversation was in the wake of the of Israeli bombing of Al Ali Arab Hospital. The fear and panic in Zayn's voice was palpable. We didn't know what was to [00:02:00] come, but it appears the worst of our worries has come true. Over the past year, Zayn has emerged as a voice within the New York surf community, helping to lead and raise awareness of the plight of his Palestinian people, a role that no doubt he carries with reluctance and a heavy heart.

[00:02:20] Tyler: Zane is a Brooklyn born Palestinian storyteller and researcher, melding practices in the cognitive sciences, sociology, and art. As an undergraduate from the University of Waterloo, Zane majored in environmental studies and is formally trained in social sciences and ecology with a focus on restoration.

[00:02:42] Tyler: He investigates a range of environmental questions, but is most concerned with questions at the intersection of humanities and politics. technology, decolonization, and water problems. I wanted Zane to come on and share his story. Despite the toll this genocide [00:03:00] has taken. Zane still finds solace in surfing and the local surf community.

[00:03:06] Tyler: He's really been an incredible inspiration. He's always been out in the water with a big smile. And I think he has an incredible story to tell that our community should listen to. Whether you agree with his politics or not, he is a human being, and he is Someone that I think could help share his story with the rest of us and help us better understand the situation.

[00:03:32] Tyler: Zane, welcome to the show.

[00:03:34] Zane: Thank you. You got me, got me geeking a little bit. You got a little introduction. Was that alright? That was fantastic. My heart's feeling very full. Well,

[00:03:44] Tyler: I know you were, we were just talking about how you feel like you're kind of moving on to a new phase and that this part of that description was from your website, and you feel like you're kind of evolving past that.

[00:03:56] Tyler: I'm curious, actually, like, how so?

[00:03:59] Zane: [00:04:00] Yeah, you know, I think, I'm still, like, finding the grammar and the words for it. I think it's, like, interesting, especially now that I'm leaning more into, like, the power of art and the power of, like, photography and video when it comes to, like, questions of social justice and questions of the environment.

[00:04:17] Zane: Um, a lot of this moving into whatever this new paradigm is is more visual, you know? Um, and so the words, I can't necessarily put to them. Um, you know, I think it's, like, With time, that'll come, and I'll know exactly, like, how to describe where I am going. I know that where I'm going is, like, where I've wanted to be.

[00:04:43] Zane: And I know that's really ambiguous, and it's, like, very, like, it's maybe a non answer, but it's, like, um, the photographs I'm producing now have, like, no bearing to what I've made before. And my thinking has changed radically and dramatically. I mean, [00:05:00] I think, you know, The two things that have centered this change have been a real emphasis and focus on liberation for myself and my people, um, and then resistance to violence of every, you know, um, expression of it.

[00:05:22] Zane: Uh, and I think it's like once I started centering the liberation or the pursuit of liberating myself, um, I've just noticed that there's been this. Remarkable trend towards some new horizon.

[00:05:40] Tyler: Do you mind if I ask, like, what do you, can you expand on what that liberation is? Like, what were you, what did you feel was confining you before that has now like broken open?

[00:05:53] Zane: I think that. I've always, you know, growing up, I've had, like, a really wonderful life. I'm really [00:06:00] blessed to have. It's always felt a little bit, I think, outside of the norm. Mm hmm. Um, and I always thought that maybe how I was existing and the things I was doing sat outside. of what's acceptable, what is a norm, um, socially acceptable.

[00:06:19] Zane: I found recently, at least in the last, what has it been, like 400 days now? Yeah. Or over a year? Over a year. Um, a lot of the beliefs that I had, that I thought were powerful, or empowering, or ground shattering, or revolutionary, were mundane, and were not as, I think, powerful as I thought they were.

[00:06:45] Tyler: Do you mind if I ask, like, what were those beforehand, then?

[00:06:48] Tyler: Like, what, what were you, what was your art before this liberation and contrast it to now?

[00:06:55] Zane: A hundred, yeah, so, I'm happy to expand on that, [00:07:00] like, in the art sense, because I think that's also the easiest for everyone to understand. Um, you know, when it came to surf media, for example, a year ago, I knew that I wanted to create something different because I've always been frustrated with like how surf media has been Produced and like what it's showing.

[00:07:18] Zane: Yeah, and I always think it's done a disservice to like how beautiful this thing is that we have um Realistically like when I created a piece of content and I looked at it afterwards or media I would look at him and it'd be like this is Not enough.

[00:07:35] Tyler: Mm-Hmm. .

[00:07:35] Zane: And it felt like that. I knew that, um, it still felt, it still followed the same grammar, it still followed the same rules and, Mm-Hmm.

[00:07:44] Zane: you know, of the media that I was trying to step away from.

[00:07:48] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:07:49] Zane: Recently. Mm-Hmm. , and I'm saying this within like the last two weeks. Yeah. I finally created something that I'm like, or I'm having clear ideas [00:08:00] where I'm supposed to be going. And it's in the simplest things of like, color. Yeah. Literally, just playing with color and how it's rendered on a camera.

[00:08:10] Zane: Um, Like, what am I showing in my videos? Am I making, and this has been a central question. Am I making something that,

[00:08:23] Zane: that like scares white folks?

[00:08:29] Zane: Is that like, that's like my litmus test almost. It's like, am I making something that a person who. Who does not question this reality that we've been given at all? Right. Do they look at a video or a thing that I have created or something that I've written or maybe Something that I've said and does it scare them?

[00:08:49] Tyler: Mm hmm,

[00:08:50] Zane: you know and I don't mean to say like scare them and into a place of fear. Yeah, and like Hiding [00:09:00] but does it scare them into a kind of enlightenment?

[00:09:03] Tyler: I would say maybe would you say like scare them like Taking off on a big wave would feel, you know, anticipatory, uncomfortable, but if you embrace it, you grow from it type of thing.

[00:09:19] Zane: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I would hope so. I'd hope that whatever I do emulates like what surfing has taught me. Yeah. And especially in those like minutes or the moments of like just taking off on a wave. Like that. Absolutely horrifying. Like, if I could mimic that in any art that I do, whether it's music, whether it is photography or video, you know, um, or writing, if I could capture that, Oh, man.

[00:09:54] Zane: Well,

[00:09:55] Tyler: let me ask then, like, what did, like, before [00:10:00] then, then, your, your art, your surf art, you felt like it was, what, like, just showing surfing with music in the background, a little bit of nice coloring and kind of making it look pretty as opposed to challenging?

[00:10:15] Zane: I think that whatever it was doing was just not deviating enough from what I had seen as a kid, and the things that really bothered me, you know?

[00:10:23] Zane: I think in a lot of ways it was still like, very heteronormative. I think it was still, even though I was really trying to step away from it, um, And create something that I knew I wanted to make, I just wasn't shaking, I wasn't shaking it, you know? Well,

[00:10:40] Tyler: it's hard, right? Like, it's like, we've been fed this confines of like, what a surf movie is, right?

[00:10:47] Tyler: Like, it has not deviated, or it's either gone documentary, which is somewhat formulaic, or it's Surf porn type of stuff, you know?

[00:10:57] Zane: And you know, it's like, this has also [00:11:00] gone hand in hand with like the process of decolonizing myself, which has been very uncomfortable

[00:11:04] Tyler: work. Describe that to me. What does decolonizing oneself mean for our listeners and for those who might not be familiar with that?

[00:11:15] Zane: Yeah, so decolonizing the self is honestly something that I've been exposed to recently, maybe in the last like two to three years. And just because I was exposed to it doesn't mean I necessarily understand it. Yeah. But, you know, decolonizing in general to me is, and as I understand it, It is a movement that is intersectional.

[00:11:38] Zane: It lies at the precipice of political science, of ecology, it could be really applied to anything. But it is a movement. It's an action. Um, it is a way to challenge all the norms and the beliefs that we have that fall in line with empire. Um, you know, uh, I [00:12:00] think that the hand of colonization, whether it's the You know, and multiple empires are guilty of this.

[00:12:07] Zane: Of course. Um, it, it, it has laid its fingerprints on many things, whether that's the expressions of racism, that's the expressions of capitalism, um, for example. These are everywhere you look. And as you start to subscribe to decolonizing, both yourself and your community, the world around you, maybe even the You can see the ways that it's, like, really manipulated how we view the world.

[00:12:38] Zane: I think in surfing, for example, it's still extremely extractive.

[00:12:43] Tyler: So by decolonizing it, you mean, like, dropping in instead of, like, going for the person closest to the peak? Sorry, I just had that. Yeah, I think that's, no,

[00:12:52] Zane: I'm, please, like, I have the issue of, like, existing up with my hands in the air, like, in the clouds, so I need to be pulled back [00:13:00] down.

[00:13:00] Zane: Um, I really try to keep my feet on earth and my head on my shoulders. It doesn't always work. Um, yeah, to me it's like, let's, I'll use an example from yesterday when I was surfing actually. Mm hmm. You went out yesterday? Yeah. Tiny, tiny, tiny little waves. But I have my log. Thanks, Paul, for repairing it. Paul Gaudet.

[00:13:19] Zane: Nice. Best in the business. Oh, is that you out at 90th? Midday? Yeah, yeah. Uh, yeah, 2 o'clock to sunset.

[00:13:26] Tyler: Yeah, I went for a walk and I was like, Who is this guy taking Well, I saw you get a couple nice ones, but I was like, That's small.

[00:13:32] Zane: Yeah, first time surfing that log since I've, like, gotten back on my knee, which is great.

[00:13:37] Zane: Um, but I'll use an example from that day. Yeah. So, yesterday I went out, and, uh, I went to 90. There was someone there, as per usual. I don't think I'll ever get it alone. And, uh, This person was not necessarily mean.

[00:13:55] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:13:56] Zane: Um, the way they looked at me and the way that we [00:14:00] approached the water, it was quite hostile.

[00:14:02] Zane: Mm. It was ridden with fear. It was ridden with, I think, violence, with some entitlement and ownership on both of our ends.

[00:14:11] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:14:12] Zane: And immediately once we got in the water and started sharing that space, this person was like, It just, uh, it was like immediately clear that they wanted to set a hierarchical relationship on the water.

[00:14:25] Zane: You're on the peak, I'm on this peak, we're trading, you know. And I believe that there's always a place for surf etiquette, a hundred percent, um, but I think there's also a way to view spaces like the water where we imagine a future that sits outside of just, oh, your wave, my wave, your wave, my wave. What is this idea of, like, my wave?

[00:14:49] Zane: It's wild, you know. Personally, so, that happened.

[00:14:55] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:14:55] Zane: They left the water.

[00:14:57] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:14:58] Zane: I stayed in, [00:15:00] goofing, having the best time of my life.

[00:15:01] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:15:02] Zane: Then someone else came in the water. Mm

[00:15:03] Tyler: hmm.

[00:15:03] Zane: This person, immediately, I do not know, and I cannot put the words to it yet. I'm only 25. Yeah. Um, Waved at me. We did not, we exchanged no words for the first at least hour and a half, and the amount of words we exchanged was like five or ten, maybe.

[00:15:22] Zane: I was laughing, just tried to do a handstand, whatever, it was a blast. But the way that we shared the water in that time, was not, Rooted in any sort of ownership or entitlement of the water.

[00:15:37] Tyler: Mmm.

[00:15:37] Zane: It was like in perfect harmony with whatever was happening. Then we both got out of the water at the same time, gave them a fist bump, and I was like, that was sick.

[00:15:47] Zane: Like, thank you so much. And they were like, thanks for bringing the positivity. That is, to me, like an active, example of like what decolonizing may look like. Then there's also like the really hard [00:16:00] work of challenging a lot of like the institutions that continue, continuously strip rights away from indigenous peoples.

[00:16:08] Zane: Yeah. Um, have taken land, have taken resources and are doing nothing in terms of reparation, you know? Right. And so, This idea of like decolonizing the self and decolonizing our communities is multifaceted. I think it's personal. It requires asking how, how much do you live in fear? You know, how much violence have you accepted in your life?

[00:16:31] Zane: What do you take as normal? And then it is also the work of, um, abolishing and undermining, um, colonial institutions at like any opportunity that you

[00:16:44] Tyler: can. So like, would you say then like that? The scarcity mindset that we get when we surf, and that there's not enough waves, or I gotta get this set, or I want to be in position for the best wave, [00:17:00] do you think that's part of that?

[00:17:02] Tyler: You know, that scarcity mindset is part of the colonizing attitude, where Hawaiians routinely shared waves, road waves together, aloha, you know, kind of spirit. Growing up in

[00:17:12] Zane: Fiji, it was similar, you know? Sharing water with the Fijian people. You know? Similar. Yeah. It's not rooted in a culture of death. Yeah.

[00:17:22] Zane: I'll say this, that, like, studying the cognitive sciences, I was always fascinated by terror management theory.

[00:17:29] Tyler: What's

[00:17:29] Zane: that? Which, we'll talk about that maybe a little bit, but I have found that, that, um, colonial cultures are fascinated with death and they're fascinated with undermining it. And I think that if we can claim something like a wave.

[00:17:50] Zane: We kind of overcome the fear of death because we have some ownership on this force that is constantly pressing on and reminding of us [00:18:00] of our mortality Yes, it's like when you are engaged in surfing and it is truly like a decolonial radical act rooted in liberation and resistance There is no such thing as scarcity, and it is the most freeing, most ground breaking, um, Paradigm shifting, um, experience I think a surfer can have, you know, I can speak like really briefly to my experiences with Laru Beya

[00:18:33] Zane: everything that we have done in that program up until this day.

[00:18:41] Tyler: You're doing this media program with Laru Beya right? But before that, I've been

[00:18:44] Zane: creating media with them. Yeah. Also just helping with coaching, kind of just integrating into the family.

[00:18:50] Tyler: Being an uncle.

[00:18:51] Zane: Yeah, you know, an uncle in the community.

[00:18:53] Zane: I hope so. I'm Mosein. Yeah. Um, it is rooted completely and totally in [00:19:00]abundance. There is no idea of scarcity, even if there are pressures, whether they're monetary or they're social or they're political. Yeah. It never, ever, to me, I have never seen it undermine. The abundance that those that that's exhibited when we're in the water and when we're on the beach.

[00:19:23] Zane: I mean it is Incredible to see the youth out there See the kids see the families the way that they occupy that space. Yeah is just It is, it is completely of a future.

[00:19:40] Tyler: It's, it's interesting. I remember one of my first experiences with Larabea was I was surfing downtown and waves are small, but real clean and fun and I was having a great session and then this whole group just paddled over and we all just started cheering waves.

[00:19:59] Tyler: There was [00:20:00] no, this is my wave or, oh, you're in the way. It was just cheering, pure. cheering and pure and like they took up the space. Yeah, but it was like great vibes and it felt great. And I stopped caring about my waves and started caring more about all of our waves together. And it really helped like that moment.

[00:20:22] Tyler: I was like, This is great. This is what surfing should be. This is how it should exist, you know?

[00:20:28] Zane: And look, like, I'm not saying, like, I love a solo session. Of course. I love having a wave to myself, but it's just that, like, I think as you begin to decolonize the self, Yeah. you start to realize, like, the boundaries of the self.

[00:20:41] Zane: You know, what separates me from you, very small. And, and the importance of the self in this process of like going through life is so insignificant. You [00:21:00] know, it's like a good little stepping stone, but it is not the reason that we are here.

[00:21:07] Tyler: So I wanted to dive in a little bit about your family's history and your upbringing because you mentioned like you grew up partially Surfing in Fiji and other parts of the world I was hoping you can kind of give a little bit of a background of your family and their history and What got you to here, basically?

[00:21:28] Zane: Sure. Oh, God, if I knew what got me here, whoa. Like, I think about that every day. You know, even yesterday in the water, I was like looking at the sunset. I was like, how have I gotten here? Like, this is the wildest place to be. Well, consider this

[00:21:42] Tyler: a safe space to explore that.

[00:21:44] Zane: I was like, is Zayn in an alternate universe here?

[00:21:46] Zane: And how is he, you know? So, my mom is, my mom and my mom's family, are from Jerusalem. Um, they, you know, they're from Jerusalem, my father is from [00:22:00] Bethlehem.

[00:22:00] Tyler: Um,

[00:22:02] Zane: we are both, they are both Palestinian, so I'm Palestinian. Um, my, um, Mom and her family lost everything in 1948 in Jerusalem, um, and then emigrated to the U.

[00:22:14] Zane: S. Well, they were between the U. S. and MENA consistently. How,

[00:22:20] Tyler: how did they, how did they get here? Was that, like, a very difficult process even for them to get, get to the States?

[00:22:28] Zane: Yeah, they, you know, I mean, they were living in California, but they, they got here my first. My grandfather, my mom's dad, was an engineer, and it obviously took time to settle, but they did.

[00:22:43] Zane: They eventually found a life, and they made a life here. Um, they lived mostly in the States after being displaced from Jerusalem. Um, and yeah, I mean, it was fraught with hardship. I think that every, I mean, especially [00:23:00] for Palestinians, but most people who have to immigrate or find shelter, uh, and safety. Um, it is never easy, um, and it's, it's really fraught with a lot of violence.

[00:23:15] Tyler: Have they ever, I mean, I'm sure they have told you what that experience was like being displaced and what, what happened? Yeah.

[00:23:24] Zane: On my mom's side, when they lost their house in Jerusalem.

[00:23:30] Tyler: This was during the

[00:23:31] Zane: Nakba? Yeah. Or a little bit after. Okay. Um, I think it actually was in 67. Okay.

[00:23:39] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:23:40] Zane: But when they lost it, um.

[00:23:42] Zane: It was interesting. My grandfather told my mom to go out to their garden and to pick some lemons. And then in that time, my grandmother and my grandfather kind of like buried the gold and all their valuables. Um, and then they left.

[00:23:58] Tyler: And they were expecting to come back?

[00:23:59] Zane: [00:24:00] Yes. As all Palestinians are. Yeah.

[00:24:04] Zane: And will. Will. Um, but yeah, they were. And, yeah. You know, my mom had no idea, and, uh, then found themselves eventually in another country making a new life. Um, it's, you know, really heartbreaking. We went back recently, when my gran my grandfather was still alive, we went with him. And, um, yeah, it's surreal because you go into this house that has all these lived in memories.

[00:24:40] Zane: From the furniture to the, you know, the Cracks in the wall and the way that they feel and that it sounds that it smells in the house Everything is still the same. I mean really the person who occupied that space was using my Grandfather's [00:25:00] dining table as their office desk Wow, so You know, yeah, it's like very real, it's very visceral, and it's like very strange to think that it doesn't belong to them.

[00:25:13] Tyler: And you were able to go back to it. Yeah. And they let you in?

[00:25:17] Zane: Yeah, so the people who now occupy that space are, um, It's, uh, you know, I think it was like, it's, I want to say that it's a, uh, how do you say, it's like, I

[00:25:32] Tyler: thought you say it's complicated.

[00:25:36] Zane: No, it's really not complicated. Um, the people who occupy that space, it is a, it's a, it's like a religious center.

[00:25:43] Zane: Okay. You know? Yeah. And, um, yeah. You know it's They were like wow our hearts break for you. Sorry. Sorry and My grandfather who at the time had very severe Parkinson's [00:26:00] I have never seen him that clear Wow Because he was somewhere he knew and it's this is the this is consistent with people who have You know diseases that denigrate the mind and Um, being in a familiar place often brings back the capacity to memory and the faculties of the mind.

[00:26:21] Zane: So, I mean, yeah, they let us in, but it was just really, really, really terrifying. And that's not even on my dad's side. I'm learning now that we, on my dad's side, we have some family in Lebanon who during 148 was when, you know, the entity was established. It obviously, as all colonizers do, drew a border, and we are now separated from some family who are in Lebanon.

[00:26:51] Zane: Um, we are from the north, the Galilee.

[00:26:55] Tyler: Mm hmm.

[00:26:56] Zane: Um, yeah, and on my dad's side, it's [00:27:00] like now we reside in a town called Shefomer, which is a small Arab town, uh, Arab, it's a Palestinian town. Um, yeah, decolonizing the south, he's still working on that. But yeah, you know, that's there. And uh, that's where my family on my dad's side is now.

[00:27:18] Tyler: And you've been back, have you been back a bunch over your life? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you still have family

[00:27:23] Zane: there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We still have family there. Um, I've been back consistently as I've grown up and I'm really making the effort to go back a lot more now because my dad is restoring familial land there.

[00:27:35] Zane: So he's there. Yeah, yeah.

[00:27:38] Tyler: Wow. So how is he handling everything right now? What's his experience been like since October 7th? For

[00:27:46] Zane: sure. It's been heavy. I mean, it's different. You know, it's, for him, you know, when we talk, he's, I am the youngest son. So [00:28:00] when he talks to me, he's like, I'm fine. I'm okay. I think very purposefully.

[00:28:05] Zane: Of course, of course. That said, there's a palpable tension in the air, all the time, there has been, and it has gotten worse, like, physically, yeah, like, uh, I think it was yesterday morning, my mom texted me and told me that a missile fell and landed extremely close to my aunt's house. Uh, similar to our own home there has been.

[00:28:27] Zane: You know, uh, it's it's at the in the middle of crossfire. Wow. Um, yeah. And the iron dome that is supposed to protect civilians, um, actively does not protect civilians. towns. Um, it's, we, it's very precarious and beyond just the physical precarity and the social, socio political precarity. Um, yeah, there has been, there's always a fear that we're going to lose what we have, [00:29:00] you know, it's what I think stopped me from really investigating myself and kind of, you know, The community that I belong to and, and really chasing the kind of abolition that I needed to be doing, um, and the activism that I needed to be doing because I was afraid.

[00:29:19] Tyler: You, you mentioned that last year when we talked. After October 7th and just how afraid you were to speak out even because of the surveillance of social media and God knows what else, you know, uh, I was hoping you can speak to that fear a little bit more and how that impacted you and how you, you've been able to liberate yourself from it.

[00:29:47] Zane: I don't know.

[00:29:47] Tyler: Or if you are. I

[00:29:48] Zane: don't know if I have.

[00:29:50] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:29:50] Zane: Um, I still feel, feel the fear in my body all the time. And it terrifies me, uh, you know, [00:30:00] but I, I can't,

[00:30:08] Zane: we can't, we can't live in fear. We just can't, you can. You can and I mean, I mean like every word of that you cannot live in fear I think that you can exist with fear and you can definitely like die with fear Yeah to live like to be alive

[00:30:34] Tyler: and be fearful.

[00:30:35] Zane: I I don't think they're conducive to each other I think fear is powerful.

[00:30:42] Zane: Yeah, and I think it's moving but you cannot live with it And, in the name of, again, liberating myself and resisting colonial violence, imperial violence, I've really seriously made a commitment to living [00:31:00] because, you know, um, I was reading Pedagogy of the Oppressed again, I read it in my final year of university, and Frere says that colonial institutions are death obsessed, they're necrophilic.

[00:31:14] Zane: I do not want to move in a way that is fearful anymore, um, and if I'm serious about that and I really want to put my money where my mouth is, then that means getting on a show and that means turning up in my community and speaking. And, here I am. And to be fair, my sister's also helped me a lot, Hannah.

[00:31:41] Zane: She's an amazing filmmaker. I was hoping

[00:31:43] Tyler: you can speak to, about her, actually.

[00:31:45] Zane: She has guided me so much in this process.

[00:31:49] Tyler: She's a journalist, right? She's a

[00:31:50] Zane: journalist. She works with Democracy Now! at the moment, but has been an avid filmmaker for a long time. Always had a camera in her hands. And [00:32:00] we have, you know, I've been able to bounce these questions off of her, and we have worked together to Really, she's helped me grow and, like, not be ruled by fear.

[00:32:11] Zane: And so, how did I do it? One, it was a philosophical commitment, and then living out that philosophy pragmatically, you know, in the name of pragmatism. But then it was also thanks to the love of, like, my family and the support of people like my sister. And then also my community, kind of just naturally fell into things.

[00:32:35] Zane: They have held me up, you know, Farmy, Paul, Quest, like, M, U, Andrew from FaZe, you know, Val, like, I can't even, where to, where to, like, you know, even like Joe from Almeda, like, Oh, Joe's amazing. He's so cool. Yeah. But every, like, every one of these people, and I mean, God, like, I know that I miss, like, Tyler, like, all these [00:33:00] folks have helped me, like, clarify my language and the way that I'm moving through the world.

[00:33:07] Zane: And it's because of them. You know, I'm not going to claim that I've overcome any fear or liberated myself.

[00:33:18] Zane: Only the best parts of myself that I can point towards are the reflections of people in the community, you know, and people who are around me. Well, I find

[00:33:31] Tyler: you can live with fear. You just don't want to live in fear. Yeah. Because when you live in fear, I feel like that's what drives That's what drives people to do horrible things, you know, um, to quote Yoda, fear leads to hatred, hatred leads to suffering, you know, um, you know, it's, it's kind of, or paraphrase, that wasn't a direct quote, but, [00:34:00] um, Did

[00:34:01] Zane: he really say it in that order?

[00:34:02] Zane: I feel like it would have been backwards. No,

[00:34:04] Tyler: no, fear leads to hatred, hatred leads to suffering, you know, um, Yeah, but it does. And

[00:34:10] Zane: I really agree. I really agree. I think fear is parasitic. Um, I think it's, again, life is confusing and emotions are, like, incredible. I'm learning now about how powerful emotions are as a tool of knowing.

[00:34:28] Zane: Wild. Um, you know, not, like, literally as, like, the body is the thinking organ, and emotions being the faculties that help us process information. Um, fear is an emotion that I think is just so beautiful. Yeah. Equally destructive. Um, but yeah, you definitely can't live in it.

[00:34:52] Tyler: Yeah, and it, well, it's interesting because it's like, it then, it's, I find it interesting [00:35:00] because there's this whole thing, and like, obviously I was, um, I've been, like, listening to and starting reading Ta Nehisi Coates latest book, and, but he, and obviously following all his interviews, and, and he talks about how it's, he always believed Before his trip to the West Bank and Palestine, like, he always believed, like, how could the oppressed become the oppressor, you know, believe that when you have that knowledge of being oppressed, you know, you'd think it would make you not want to do that.

[00:35:37] Tyler: But instead, a lot of the time, that That fear of being oppressed leads you to that oppression, and you become what you feared, basically.

[00:35:47] Zane: Yeah. I mean, even to pull from Frere, again, you know, he says that the oppressed are very much, they embody the oppressor as much as they are, um, [00:36:00] You know, they are the oppressed, they body the oppression.

[00:36:05] Zane: Yeah. And I think that that's something that I noticed. And a part of decolonizing myself has been, like, asking myself, How do I embody the violence of oppression, of colonization, you know, of the boot of fascism? How do I embody it? It's really terrifying when you look inwards.

[00:36:27] Tyler: Well, you realize you're capable of it, too.

[00:36:30] Tyler: Absolutely. And that's, that's a scary prospect for Yeah. I mean, that scares the shit out of me all the time. Uh, I get scared of One, I'm like a big guy, and I've always been weary to give in to my anger and fear, because I know the pain that I could cause someone, because I'm so big and could be brutal if I wanted to be, but I'm just a big puppy dog instead, because I try, I try to be very mindful [00:37:00] of that fear and that anger, you know, which I do to varying degrees of, you know, Non success and some success.

[00:37:07] Tyler: Of course, and that's the

[00:37:08] Zane: process, you know. I think that also a big part of like this whole like moving into myself now is like learning to accept myself and like all the shortcomings and then also accept all the people around me for like their shortcomings and like in the name of like the commitment to realizing a better world and a better self, it comes with like forgiveness.

[00:37:33] Zane: Like that is so, so, so, so critical towards moving like a gentle, beautiful future.

[00:37:41] Tyler: Well, if you can forgive yourself, then you can start to forgive others and not hold on to that anger. You know,

[00:37:49] Zane: but then also being okay with the shortcomings being like, I'm nasty and I'm dirty and that's all right Like I'm not trying to put on a front like look at me for everything and all that I am You know and [00:38:00] all the like mess about it and in like that's so beautiful and it's so awesome now to be able to like Not have to shy away from those things that bother me that I want to say no to or that I want to accept and like seeing a person and For like everything and seeing yourself for everything you are and and and like acknowledging the whole like mess of it

[00:38:24] Tyler: Yeah,

[00:38:25] Zane: how beautiful and how freeing and how like liberating it is?

[00:38:30] Zane: It is the most wonderful thing to travel through the world with that kind of like empathy for yourself And and for others

[00:38:39] Tyler: Then I guess I kind of have to explore here then, like, how do you, how do you manage that in a time of such grief and such fear, um, for your people and family and not give into the worst impulses that we [00:39:00] have and not, you know, cause it's so easy.

[00:39:06] Tyler: Because we, right now, we live in this world where the information is coming out of a firehose. And you are watching, we're watching literal horrificness. Look, like,

[00:39:22] Zane: you should still punch your local Nazi. Seriously. Like, I really think that, like, I'm really honest, Quest said something hilarious when we were filming once, he said, I was talking to him about my recent, uh, recent doctor's visit I had, how frustrating it was.

[00:39:46] Zane: And I told him about my inner monologue, you know, because this doctor was terrible, so bad. And I was just like, in my inner monologue, while she was speaking, I was like, What? Like, how do you not know what to diagnose [00:40:00] me with? Like, tell me what I have and what's wrong with me, and then let's talk. Like, you can't, and like, don't pull up research as I'm talking to you.

[00:40:07] Zane: Like, I love intellectual humility, but like, I was going off in my mind. And And Quest was like, oh my god, he's like, I can't wait till Unhinged Zane comes out. And, you know, I think the thing is, it's like, it's not that I am not angry, and it's not that, it's not that I don't have this thing inside me that is just like, wants to literally burn this whole thing to the ground and just build something so beautiful from it.

[00:40:34] Zane: Like, that's there.

[00:40:36] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:40:37] Zane: It's there. Yeah. It's there. It's there. It's not that I, it's just that, like, I'm equally angry. In love.

[00:40:43] Tyler: Mmm.

[00:40:44] Zane: And, and those two things are never going to be divorced from each other, you know?

[00:40:49] Tyler: Wow, they're, they, they, they complement each other. They do. You know?

[00:40:52] Zane: And, and, and I'm not going to shy away from either one of those.

[00:40:55] Zane: I've noticed that that works for me.

[00:40:57] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:40:58] Zane: And that's letting me do, [00:41:00] um, the things that I want to do, having a cafe fundraiser, doing a mentorship, like, um, organizing with doing the paddle outs with Surfers in solidarity. It's like creating music, creating podcasts, creating community groups, like, like my football group on Sundays, like this stuff is all rooted in the rage and like the deep love.

[00:41:21] Zane: Yeah. Of. Of, of, you know, this whole thing.

[00:41:26] Tyler: What do you, like, I guess then, how, I don't know, how have you navigated this past year in the sense of like, I noticed, people I know, uh, very close to me, who are Palestinian, don't even want to socialize, don't even want to go out, don't even want to deal with anything, they just want to.

[00:41:52] Tyler: Stay tuned to what's happening and bear witness to it, but also, yeah, [00:42:00]can't can't bring themselves out even. Yeah. And did you experience that? And how have you managed that? How have you been able to pull yourself out?

[00:42:09] Zane: Oh, yeah. I mean, early on in this process, or in this year. I felt and fell into, like, the deepest depression I've ever experienced.

[00:42:24] Zane: And then developed, like, crippling anxiety. Like, when I say crippling, like, I really didn't understand what that meant. Until it happened. And I could not move. And it was just painful. Everything was painful. I think There's a few things that have carried me through. I've met really incredible people. Um, and I've always found, like, traveling a lot.[00:43:00]

[00:43:00] Zane: Um, I've always found, like, strength in the people I'm around. Mm hmm. And been able to pull from it and then move on with my life. Um, you know, and that definitely has helped me kind of move out of this, like, out of that state where I was just like, I didn't even want to surf. I didn't surf. Yeah. I, I was like sick of it.

[00:43:25] Zane: I was like, this, this stupid, this whole thing is so dumb. I was like, it's just like annoying. Like I don't even like it. But I was honest with myself at least and I didn't do it. You know, um, and I was just, you know, and I found beautiful people and then I found beautiful community. I've felt things very deeply, went to therapy for the first time, which was wild.

[00:43:49] Zane: How was that? Amazing. Is it the best? Super cool. It's great. I need to go back. I love it. Weekly for me. Yeah. It's fantastic. Um, but that said, like, [00:44:00] can therapy be the, it's not the end all be all, like, I don't think It's a tool. I think that there's like a lot of overemphasis, especially in times of existential crisis, like we're It's unbelievable how much we're willing to be like, just go to therapy and you'll be fine.

[00:44:13] Zane: It's like, there's a lot more than that. Well, it's work, you know. And I leaned on music in a way that I have never leaned on music before. I'm reminded a lot of this one Fela Kutti quote, where he talks about, yeah, he says that like, to play with music, he says, to play with music, it's not like a game. I'm paraphrasing.

[00:44:40] Zane: Um, this is actually a quote that Alex shared. Alex, also someone who I have leaned on immensely and has shown incredible love. Um, and he shared this and it's like, Yeah, to play with music is, is not to play a game. It's like a spiritual connection and it's very powerful. And when you engage in the process of creating music, you, um, you, you're [00:45:00] communing with God.

[00:45:01] Zane: And it's been seriously, like, in those moments, When I was like, on the verge, and I, look, I'm gonna say this, like, even to this day, I'm like, I feel like I'm on the verge. And I've been treading a very thin line. Of course. Um, like, it's, it's very unsettling. Um, that said, like, music has carried me, people carried me.

[00:45:28] Zane: Are you, are you religious at all? I'm not, I mean, I, you know, when I lived in Fiji, my biology teacher was a pastor. He was also the person who mentored me through my early surfing. His name is Chris Stice and we would surf together often. a lot before, after school, during the weekends, you know. And while I was out there, I'd ask him questions about God.

[00:45:53] Zane: I'd ask him questions about, you know, Christianity. I come from a Palestinian Christian family, so we have a very [00:46:00] long history of belief. And, yeah, he exposed me to Christianity and then, like, I totally subscribed to it, was born again. It was, like, really wild and this unbelievable experience, um, and since, I mean, this was a long time ago.

[00:46:15] Zane: Like, Fiji was, feels like a life ago. But, uh, to this day, like, I'm clarifying that, like, I've been looking into Buddhism a lot and I, I'm still Christian.

[00:46:25] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:46:26] Zane: Um, but, yeah. And I, I have been. In really deep connection with a lot of people from other faiths like Islam and really learning more about what's on the, what's happening, you know, and how are we seeing this great gig in the sky?

[00:46:43] Zane: This, this,

[00:46:44] Tyler: Well, I've seen a lot of people lean more into their faith during this time too, you know, and that's been a saving grace for many.

[00:46:53] Zane: Yeah, I think especially this summer, I definitely, I met someone who really like opened my mind up to [00:47:00] like how important faith can be in like traversing the challenges of life.

[00:47:05] Zane: Yeah. And I'm so grateful for them. Like it's been so cool. It's such a great connection, great friendship. Um, and yeah, they really, really have like helped me clarify like how much I could lean on prayer and meditation to really like move through. The pain and then not stop at that pain and then like catalyze it into action I'm a really big believer in pragmatism.

[00:47:31] Zane: I'm a big believer in like Cornel West talks a lot about love as a verb. So does bell hooks, you know, um, and you know The you know democracy too is also a verb as it's not it's something that you pursue actively And if i'm gonna rest on my my laurels i'm gonna be who I want to be You Then I can't just observe those things abstractly.

[00:47:55] Tyler: Mm hmm.

[00:47:55] Zane: I really want to live it. You have to practice it. Absolutely, you [00:48:00] know to a degree where sometimes it's problematic. I think I do more and I don't speak or converse enough.

[00:48:07] Tyler: Well, I mean you you've taken on a bit of a leadership role. You know, for I think in the surf community here, um, obviously, no, I mean, you, you're speaking at these events, you're helping to coordinate them.

[00:48:25] Tyler: You are teaching kids, you are, you are, you are actively engaged.

[00:48:31] Zane: I'll say I'm engaged and I think maybe from the outside, it looks like a leadership thing, but like, You know, Surfers in Solidarity is a group effort. Of course. I mean, sure I speak, but like, it's the equal effort of, and lots of people organizing and putting boots on the ground and heavy, heavy, heavy work.

[00:48:47] Zane: And then also with this media mentorship, I really don't believe in the like banking model of education. I'm also an environmental educator. I currently teach with the Waterfront Alliance. Um, [00:49:00] I do not believe in it. And during this media mentorship, I have very purposefully, like, really, really tried to steer away from the, like, I know what photography is, and you

[00:49:12] Tyler: will listen to me.

[00:49:13] Tyler: That's not leadership. Leadership is helping to drive people forward to their destinies, you know? I think the best leaders are the ones that you don't trust. That don't act like leaders, actually. Sure. They're the ones who, who inspire and motivate. Yeah. As opposed to direct and tell.

[00:49:31] Zane: I'd hope so. Yeah. But then it's like, I don't know.

[00:49:33] Zane: You know, it's like everyone and like, well, everyone has everyone is, of course, it's just that like, it's like, sometimes I'm like, again, it's like about imagining the world in the way that we portray it or the way that we conceptually break it down. And it's like, what does the leader is it really like the word or the way I want to describe how I'm moving through my community?

[00:49:55] Zane: Like, what if I thought about it in a different way? What if I thought [00:50:00]about like, um. You know, the way that a community builds more like physically, like through the lens of physics and maybe gravity and like how certain objects have mass, um, and then the other objects kind of gravitate or work around it.

[00:50:15] Zane: You've taken up some mass. You've taken up some mass. And I'm

[00:50:17] Tyler: not saying you put on weight, you know.

[00:50:20] Zane: Someone told me recently that I'm growing into my adult body. Yeah. And a friend of mine did a tarot reading and was like, you are moving into a new stage of life. And I was like. Does that mean that I, like, am becoming someone now?

[00:50:35] Zane: Like, I don't know, but, there, look, I, uh, that's, yeah, back to the topic at hand. Um, yeah, like, I, I, the thing is that I think we all have this incredible mass, And I do think that, like, when I think about it musically, I love thinking about life through songs and through music. And cooking, too. My dad was a chef.

[00:50:53] Zane: He actually had a restaurant on, uh, yeah, in New York, here, uh, Jambone. It was on Mulberry Street. [00:51:00] Really? Fifteen years, yeah.

[00:51:01] Tyler: And it was, uh, Palestinian food? No, it was Italian.

[00:51:05] Zane: And he didn't use his real name, Joseph.

[00:51:08] Tyler: That's awesome.

[00:51:09] Zane: Yeah, he, you know, this is the story. But there's, I didn't even talk about my dad's story, and then like, my growing up.

[00:51:16] Zane: Um, but I do like to think of life through music and through food. And I think that like, if we were in a band together, There is no lead necessarily. I think that like, especially if we're thinking about this in terms of like jazz, for example, you know, just really fun to play. Um, it's more like this incredible feedback between like multiple people playing a song at the same time.

[00:51:37] Zane: And we have an idea of what the song is. And like, that's how I tend to think about life, like an education or a community, like even the media mentorship. It's hilarious. It's like, I'm just like blown away. I can't wait to share these. We're going to have a zine that we're putting out and photo prints so people very cool put them put some money aside That money will be going to supporting the kids as [00:52:00] photographers and programming for next year Look the photos that they are making I, I'm like, I want to like, I can't even express, like, when I think about it, it makes like the front of my brain tingle, you know, like, and I'm just like, these kids, they're, the youth, they are creating the most amazing, amazing work.

[00:52:22] Zane: And it's so inspirational. And like, if we were in a band, like, okay, I'll be the drummer. You know, but like they are just we are riffing off of each other and creating Something so beautiful and i'm like so proud of them. That's awesome.

[00:52:37] Tyler: It's I can't wait to show everybody so we We just touched on your father like let's hear your father's story and then how you got to hear then as well

[00:52:47] Zane: Yeah, so my dad left palestine when he was 18 on a grant like an education education grant from the palestinian communist party, I think

[00:52:57] Tyler: Right on.

[00:52:59] Tyler: I'm a lefty. [00:53:00] I'm a commie. I'm a dirty commie. I've got some communist tendencies with me in some ways.

[00:53:07] Zane: Yeah, so he got in a grant and then came to America, came to New York. He studied at Syracuse. He studied chemistry and then graduated and then eventually found You know his way into the restaurant business.

[00:53:22] Zane: Wow. I mean his My grandmother on his side his mother. I didn't know her like she died before I was born Yeah, um, she's an amazing cook. I think as most palestinians are I don't want to be like my

[00:53:34] Tyler: mother in law I would

[00:53:35] Zane: say that we there's something in our hands. That's good with yeah, the mclub

[00:53:43] Zane: Yeah, um Those two things are also not interchangeable. My dad, yeah, then came to New York and then started up in the restaurant industry and he, you know, had a couple of restaurants until he settled on Giambone, which was an Italian restaurant that was owned prior to him [00:54:00]by another in Ita an Italian gentleman and had that spot for a long time.

[00:54:04] Zane: Then my dad got it, 15 years.

[00:54:06] Tyler: What was his alias last name?

[00:54:08] Zane: His real, his name that he used was Joseph,

[00:54:12] Tyler: which

[00:54:12] Zane: is not so far off from, but it's Italian enough. Um, Joey. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Hey, oh, Joey. Oh, Joey. Joey. Joey cookin up the pasta. Yeah. Um, but yeah, he, he, He had that restaurant and you know growing up here.

[00:54:26] Zane: I left New York when I was seven. We'd go to that restaurant a lot It was definitely sanctuary the park across from the restaurant is where I got my first scooter Nice, I was at a raffle and it was like a bunch of like Asian kids who were like, who's this? White looking dude who just got the scooter and I like walked up to this.

[00:54:44] Zane: It was really anyways Yeah, so we grew up in that neighborhood and also like in Brooklyn and and in that restaurant Um And this, you know, the family at the restaurant raised us. Um, yeah, and so my dad ran that restaurant for a really long [00:55:00] time. And it carried us. It was really, it's intense work. I love cooking, and I told my dad I want to be a chef.

[00:55:06] Zane: And he's like, Zane, I did this so you do not have to and I was like, all right, fine, restoration ecology for me.

[00:55:15] Tyler: Well, thank goodness he didn't try to draft you into the family business at least.

[00:55:20] Zane: What we sold the restaurant when we moved to Sudan, um, yeah, and yeah, and so I can tell you a little bit about it.

[00:55:27] Tyler: Yeah. How did you end up? Just go into Sudan. Yeah,

[00:55:33] Zane: so my mom works for the United Nations and has been working for them a long time So we've been doing the whole like contract life She's worked extensively and for a really long time on issues of gender based violence on women as a woman and girls rights on reproductive rights That's so yeah, I was raised in a home With every, you know, an incredible mother who was like super fluent and outspoken and [00:56:00] incredibly like, you know, powerful and equally intellectual.

[00:56:03] Zane: Yeah, and my dad as well is also in his own ways, you know, and so it's between their feedbacks that we grew up and then, you know, You know, and, and, and then we moved to Sudan, my dad sold a restaurant, would cook us these amazing home meals every day, um, and so, yeah, moved to Sudan, and, uh, then moved to Switzerland, and then Fiji, and then Istanbul, where I surfed in the Black Sea with my crew, um, who I love, and who have really set up quite a scene there, they were shaping boards in their basement, we were discovering new waves, I follow some Instagram guys

[00:56:33] Tyler: who surf the Black Sea in Turkey, yeah, it might be.

[00:56:36] Tyler: Probably my, You know? Efe and Tamer and, you know. It gets waves. Yeah. It gets some decent waves. I mean It does. Like, I even saw It is not When Kepe Serra went there, like, a couple years ago and scored. I've been meaning to find that

[00:56:49] Zane: edit for a really long time. And it's, it's hard. If you got that in that, you know Found it

[00:56:54] Tyler: on, like, YouTube, but I don't know.

[00:56:56] Tyler: I, I

[00:56:56] Zane: Look, I have looked for it, but I feel like I'm never watching the whole thing. [00:57:00] Um Anyways, yeah, so Yeah. Uh, lived in the Black Sea and then lived in Canada for a while and surfed on the Great Lakes and that's where I did school, um, and I worked at a surf shop there, Surf the Greats, which is now closed, but run by Antonio Leonard and then Lucas Murnahan, who's like sadly left us, but both amazing, incredible people.

[00:57:21] Zane: I met wonderful people there, uh, Randy and Hanes and Celia and Gabby and oh my God.

[00:57:26] Tyler: So you've had like, um, in terms of surfing, like you've, you've been. You've had the opportunity to kind of surf in these communities that are almost like surfing outcasts, almost, you know, or just, you know, definitely outside of the norm of surfing, you know, where surfing.

[00:57:47] Tyler: Is considered not to exist, and then it does, and you get to experience that, that kind of sub sub culture, almost, which I'm fascinated by. And I'm so

[00:57:56] Zane: lucky to have experienced that. You know, I think especially as a Palestinian [00:58:00] surfer, Yeah. Uh, I've always felt a little bit alone, and I've only finally met a couple others, which is awesome.

[00:58:08] Zane: But, it's almost like, now in retrospect, like sitting here with you, I'm really, really lucky. That maybe that was the surfing that I was exposed to because who knows if I went down the normal path and let's say I moved to California and then Maybe I wouldn't really want to be here. You know, and I would have hated surfing and then we go to alternate Zane timeline But I don't know You know, it's it's definitely been a thing.

[00:58:35] Zane: I've been on the peripheries and I think I'm so grateful for what it's taught me Like it's taught me about how much in a lot of ways the waves don't matter It's the

[00:58:46] Tyler: community around the way and it's not

[00:58:48] Zane: only the community. It's like yeah I mean, it's a community for sure and then it's the approach. Mm hmm.

[00:58:54] Zane: It's like It's so funny because it's been such a clear example [00:59:00] of like that fine balance between being like These material things don't matter at all

[00:59:04] Tyler: And

[00:59:06] Zane: then being like they're the reason we're here Um, but yeah, it's it's been amazing I mean, I think the black sea really taught me that and so did canada like those waves are not It's awesome all the time and it's often like four to five hour drives both ways in freezing water.

[00:59:21] Zane: Um, but there's something else that brings us there and brings us to the water. Um, that is just something that is beyond just a wave, you know?

[00:59:35] Tyler: I love that. Yeah. I, I wanted to talk a little bit about like what you were working on before October 7th, the Moaj. Yeah. That. And I was hoping you can kind of explain that a little bit more and where and how that's probably morphed into something totally different.

[00:59:54] Tyler: I

[00:59:54] Zane: would love to talk about that. I feel like I have not been posting much on it because of [01:00:00] I really feel like eyes should be on Huzza, and I really think this is almost like me trying to observe a kind of strike. Um, that said, like, I have been trying to share a bit, and I've been active in my community, but I'm really, like, Yeah, I'd love to speak about it.

[01:00:16] Zane: So I started Moj, um, Originally, because I've always had a camera in my hand, But never really did photography. Like, I think there's a distinction.

[01:00:34] Zane: You know, it's funny. I was in the water and it's just like I was growing really angry with the way that surfing was being portrayed. I think it was like after a lot of the protests for, you know, George Floyd and Breonna Taylor for Black Lives Matter. I was really like opened up into the ways that like we have created a water that is remarkably [01:01:00] boring.

[01:01:02] Zane: And honestly, like just. So, black lives are underwhelming and, and, and oppressive and violent. And it's extremely sexist, extremely classist, racist. Um, it is guilty of, um, A lot of things and I wanted to create something wanted to create media that just was different And yeah, so I got this cheap housing for the camera that I had was really lucky that there was one It's all I could afford and then I remember I got out actually with pharmy and paul and They were like my first two sessions And I felt so excited I snapped those photos and then they were like And I was freaking out.

[01:01:51] Zane: I was like, we just created something so cool. And then, um, you [01:02:00] know, I was just like, I wanted to share it with online. And, and then I was like, I can't keep putting this on my personal Instagram. So I created this other page. And since then, it's kind of been serving as like an archive, I guess.

[01:02:12] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:02:12] Zane: Maybe.

[01:02:13] Zane: Um, but I've kind of leaned away from it as an archive and just been like, this is somebody documenting something that's really, really, I think, beautiful and profound. And I am starting to move away from it, you know, like. I'm still, I still love photography and videography and surfing, yeah, and surf video and photo.

[01:02:33] Zane: I'm never gonna stop doing that, I don't think, maybe I will one day, but who knows. But right now I love it so deeply and it's like, I kind of want to move away from just labeling it Moj and maybe finding something different. Um. Because yeah, like I'm set like I'm said, like I said kind of moving into this new place Yeah, and I think that Moj was beautiful at when it lasted But you know eventually you kind of grow out of the pants and you got to put something [01:03:00] else on But yeah, and and so I think it served its purpose and it's really got us to a point where I wanted to be.

[01:03:06] Zane: Yeah Yeah, and that's what it was initially.

[01:03:11] Tyler: Mm hmm.

[01:03:11] Zane: And that's what it is. I guess I

[01:03:16] Tyler: want to Also, ask, like, how you feel right now, uh, you know, you talked about being active in democracy, right? How have you felt in this past election cycle, Ben? And how have you managed this?

[01:03:31] Zane: I'm going to be really honest with you.

[01:03:33] Zane: Like, I have been at rock bottom for the past, like, year more, and both of these candidates were criminals. Yeah. Straight up. And, yeah, like, this is, I mean, this, this fool that's in office is like, he's a total clown. Yeah. Um, of course it's terrifying in a lot [01:04:00] of ways, but the way that it registered in my body, which is how I am taking note of how I feel and, and what I think.

[01:04:09] Zane: Yeah. I did not, like, maybe it's that I've just been, like, really messed up from this last year. But I was not moved more than I was before it or after it. Like, I'm still gonna be out there, and I'm still gonna be trying to hold my community and my people up. I'm still gonna be fighting. I'm still gonna be, like, making sure we're safe.

[01:04:29] Zane: We have each other's backs in the end of the day. There's no government, there's no, that will ever support you like your community will. There's no institution that can. We have each other's backs, you know, like if we're really serious about this And so, you know, I'm not saying like I'm not saying it doesn't matter.

[01:04:52] Zane: Yeah, but it's just that like I've been so Remarkably focused

[01:04:58] Tyler: that you've just kind of tuned it out [01:05:00] almost.

[01:05:00] Zane: No, I mean I was paying attention Yeah, it's like it's just that like during that I was doing like two other actions.

[01:05:06] Tyler: Yeah,

[01:05:07] Zane: you know and and I, I, I think that that's like, I really think that we need to imagine democracy as a verb of constant doing.

[01:05:19] Zane: Like to be, to believe in democracy is to really fight every fucking day for something that's beautiful. It is not confined to a vote and it is not confined to a politician. I really think that, like, I hope that, like. This will not be the thing that I think wakes Americans up from their stupor, especially white America.

[01:05:51] Zane: Yeah. Um, like, we need to really register. That, like, if you're [01:06:00] committed to these things like freedom and liberation, it does not come off of the back of a politician. Like, legislation and policy is really important, and it's important to be involved in local politics, I think. Yeah. Um, but, like, the real work is hard.

[01:06:20] Zane: Like, again, something that Alex shared recently, you know, we all kind of, like, we're all Imagine that there was this time where like everyone wasn't so individualistic and oh like remember the old days when there was community and like blah blah blah and it's like I Cannot tell you how many times I have heard that commentary and I'm like the reason why We are where we are is Because people do not want to put in the work.

[01:06:51] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:06:52] Zane: Because it is tiring. It is exhausting spiritually and mentally sometimes to organize [01:07:00] and to fight for your community. Like, it is beautiful. And it is the thing that has given me life. But it, it, it is hard. And I'm not being, I'm not on my like Kim Kardashian thing like, People don't work enough these days, you know?

[01:07:15] Zane: Like, I'm saying like, It, it takes like a, You gotta pull it from so deeply in your soul. And, I guarantee, like yeah, This election is hard, And voting is difficult, Like, Like, but to me, like, we gotta, gotta dig now. We gotta dig. And it's not gonna get better. Like, since I started studying the environmental studies, I knew, since I think like the first IPCC report came out, we got like a limited amount of time before we start hitting like tipping points.

[01:07:50] Zane: I mean, they've already given

[01:07:51] Tyler: up the one and a half percent, you know, one and a half degrees. And look, it's

[01:07:56] Zane: like, there is a finite time that we've been given.

[01:07:58] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:07:59] Zane: We [01:08:00] got roundabout, like maybe four years. To really really get down to it Like so what are we doing? Are we going to sit around and cry about a vote?

[01:08:10] Zane: like I would hope that like instead of like pointing fingers and like leaning into the racist tendencies and like You know, kind of like

[01:08:20] Tyler: all the, the Blaine pointing Yeah. All the Blaine game pointing towards like

[01:08:23] Zane: Arabs and, and already the kind of, the Arab, the racism against Arabs that exist in the States.

[01:08:28] Zane: Yeah. Um, instead of doing that, I would really hope that people look inside themselves. and ask themselves whether this world is the one that they want. And what got us here, and like, how they were responsible for it too. And not to the point where they're gonna like, cancel themselves and guilt trip themselves and then not do anything.

[01:08:47] Zane: No. You like, look inwards and ask yourself why we're here, and then start moving. Because like, there's no more time for this like, f you know, dancing around the subject. Like, [01:09:00] this is it. This is it. I I do not understand how, but like, Even before October 7th?

[01:09:11] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:09:12] Zane: I remember it was so weird. I was like telling my friends.

[01:09:15] Zane: I was like, guys, like, I feel like something's going to happen like towards the end of this year and our whole world is going to end. Like, I just feel like our world's going to fall apart. And I remember I was in Red Hook, like sitting around a brewery with some friends and they were like, what do you mean?

[01:09:28] Zane: Like, you think that New York's going to just blow up in explosions and flames? And I was like, no, but I don't know what it is, but I just feel like something is going to go wrong. And alas, here we are. Yeah. Yeah. If the feeling that I have right now is true and it feels similar to that one that I had, then we really don't have time.

[01:09:46] Zane: And again, I don't want to move in a way that's dictated by like linear time and fear. Um, we, it is imperative to like light that fire in yourself and find the light and [01:10:00] move now.

[01:10:02] Tyler: What, how should people do that? What do you, what do you suggest?

[01:10:05] Zane: There's no, you know, there's the thing that is so beautiful about liberation that I've learned is that there is no, There is no defined, what should I do?

[01:10:17] Zane: When you realize liberation in yourself, it will communicate itself outwardly. That flows organically. And I really do believe people are a universe in themselves. And that when you figure that out, and you figure that grammar out, and you figure out that lexicon, Eventually things happen for me. It started with starting a Sunday soccer group.

[01:10:37] Zane: Yeah football group And building community from that built around a space, which is the parade grounds on seven o'clock nice Uh, or parade it was at seven o'clock now. It's at ten Um, but it started there and then it slowly is moving into other things into other ways of building community and holding each other up by doing cafe fundraisers and by Doing paddle outs [01:11:00]and you know, there's incredible You know, food sovereignty, for example, there's so many things that you could do that really undermine the violence of oppression and colonial institutions, and you will figure that out if you believe in it.

[01:11:14] Tyler: Do you think having a vision helps people move forward? Having some sort of ideal situation? Like I've always been, I've always been a fan of like working backwards. And, uh, kind of taking a vision and then trying to work backwards from there because that That helps motivate, actually, because you can see a goal, at least, when there's no goal.

[01:11:42] Tyler: It's like hard to envision moving forward.

[01:11:45] Zane: Well, the way that, you know, I,

[01:11:47] Tyler: and I don't know if that's a colonial mindset of mine either.

[01:11:50] Zane: I don't know. I mean, I immediately, I was inclined to just go down the cognitive route. Yeah. And be like, look, some of some people really do think about the future in [01:12:00]visualization.

[01:12:01] Zane: Yeah. Some people think about it. I need a vision board. Grammar. Yeah. I don't know. And I think that, I think that we all have ways that we envision the future. Yeah. And that we see it and we pursue it. Um. How that helped, how someone reaches it, I don't know. Like, I know that observing La Rubea has like, for example, like, seeing what the abundance of like going to the beach and being at the beach solely for the reason that you, you belong there has been something that, like, helped me clarify what I think community should look like.

[01:12:32] Zane: Yeah. Um. Yeah, you know, I think that vision is important for sure, but I think it's not as important as like, I'm gonna I've been thinking about this thing a lot lately. Yeah, there are some things.

[01:12:49] Tyler: Yeah,

[01:12:50] Zane: there are some things in this life In this American life, especially, this American life, that are [01:13:00] so mundane, and I'm not saying that mundanity is not important, like, there's this incredible quote by Yassine Bey,

[01:13:11] Zane: I found it when I first moved back here and I went to one of his exhibitions four times, it was in Brooklyn Museum, which now is, I have learned, is a dirty, dirty place, uh, you know, I have not gone there in a long time, but. He said, to make something beautiful and true, It ain't gotta be special ain't gotta be new.

[01:13:32] Zane: Maybe it's best if it bears repeating like breathing eating bathing or sleeping So there's beauty in the mundane. Yeah, I'm not trying to say that but like people really got to ask themselves like if this is the life that we value and are you you got a risk it like I Cannot look this also goes with surf media I get [01:14:00] so mad when I see some sort of media because I'm just like, I have seen this a million times.

[01:14:03] Zane: This is so boring. I'm so sick of this. Why are we still creating the same thing? We have a chance right now to, uh, to look at ourselves and to look at the world around us because everything is falling apart. It's this extremely vulnerable time. Things are, like, collapsing right in front of our eyes.

[01:14:20] Zane: Nothing makes sense. You have this chance to reimagine a future. Like, if we think about it, In like maybe like baking even it's like there's like this hot blob mess and we have this chance to kind of like re Mold it. Yeah, you know and i'm not trying to make light of like the worst time in my life But like we have a chance to remold it and we have a chance to remold ourselves and it's like We need to do the work of like looking inwards and being like do I really appreciate These things in my life that are just so boring

[01:14:54] Tyler: Yeah

[01:14:55] Zane: Like and and soulless and life sucking like you I am [01:15:00] speaking to like people within my community Especially who are willing who will not say anything who have not spoken up who have not come to actions like Ask yourself what you're protecting, what kind of life you're protecting.

[01:15:14] Tyler: Mm-Hmm, ,

[01:15:15] Zane: and who that life really serves. Is it in your best interest? Is it,

[01:15:19] Tyler: yeah.

[01:15:20] Zane: Seriously. Who's it for? You know, what is it?

[01:15:25] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:15:26] Zane: Like look at your identity and how multifaceted it is. Is it in your own service? Is it in the surface service of something beautiful? Or are you living a life that is just committed to.

[01:15:37] Zane: Literally perpetuating the same system and the same violence that my people have been going through for 75 years now. And for a whole lot longer, because we've had a lot of empires that have come through. But it's like, are we really gonna, are we really gonna keep, you know, convincing ourselves that this is worth it?

[01:15:55] Zane: Like, seriously ask yourself, like, I really hope if people are listening to this, [01:16:00] that they're asking themselves, like, When they feel that feeling of, like, boredom. And I'm not saying, like, I love boredom. I think it's actually very productive. Like, productive. But, it's like, when you feel that, I really think you have to ask yourself, like, What kind of life am I leading?

[01:16:19] Zane: And then getting out there and doing the work. Because, you know, if something is lacking, you know which direction you need to travel in. And maybe that'll be visual, maybe it'll come in words, I don't know. Maybe it'll come in, like, a divine intervention or something, or, I don't know. I don't. Yeah. But I know that, like, I know that, like, I look at some people, and they look miserable.

[01:16:38] Zane: And I'm like, that said, like, I really believe in the beauty of a person, but like, you gotta fight. You gotta seriously ask yourself, because this is the time to do it. This is the time to do it.

[01:16:54] Zane: I'm getting heated on the mic, sorry. Ooh, I

[01:16:55] Tyler: love it. Adding a little spice. Takes [01:17:00] a sip of tea. What is that, a chai latte with some spice in it? It's green tea. It's green tea. I think that they put something else in my

[01:17:06] Zane: tea, though.

[01:17:07] Tyler: Radicalization. Do you, then, kind of going back to, you know, you know, situation going on in Palestine.

[01:17:19] Tyler: Have you ever, have you had conversations with, with people, like calm conversations, not arguments, but conversations with people who are pro Israeli?

[01:17:30] Zane: I used to.

[01:17:30] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:17:32] Zane: Pre October. Yeah. Even then, not really, because, you know, it's like, even now I look at my life and a lot of people have lost people because, like, You know, they were in circles with, you know, normalizers or sympathizers.

[01:17:47] Zane: I'm lucky. At least in my life, like since I was seven years old, I've always been very vehemently like strict about who I've surrounded myself with. Um, that said, I mean, of course I've had [01:18:00] discussions with people who are on other sides of the political spectrum, especially when it doesn't come to Palestine, but you know, I have had discussions with people, uh, around Palestine, but it's like, You know, no.

[01:18:14] Zane: Recently, no. Because I just don't have time for that. And I don't have the emotional capacity. And I think you're a fool. Genuinely. If you look at what's happening and you're like, I know that a lot of people, a lot of Palestinians also don't share in this sentiment. Like, I know they're, yeah. But it's just for me, I'm not gonna talk to somebody who you know, sees a genocide unfold.

[01:18:34] Zane: And sees the kind of violence that's being perpetuated and it's like, well, actually, like, if you're, if your reaction to seeing what is happening, literally live streamed is, but, like, sorry, go read a book, like, go educate yourself or something, like, I am so, and I understand how deep propaganda runs, like, I really do, you know, I have been [01:19:00] in, you know, Lots of cultures that have fallen to the hands of propaganda.

[01:19:06] Zane: Look, like, it's deep. I get it. But like, nobody has an excuse to be inhuman. You know, nobody has an excuse to not pursue compassion. And kindness like nobody has that excuse. I don't care and like if you see I mean look like Hind Rajab was like shot.

[01:19:27] Tyler: Yeah

[01:19:28] Zane: Hundreds of times. This is a little six year old story.

[01:19:32] Tyler: Yeah,

[01:19:33] Zane: and if your reaction to that Is met with but don't talk to me because you do not you to me your white supremacist You you you would not have a but if that was anybody other than a Palestinian black or brown child Yeah, and so no like literally I'm at a different place right now and who [01:20:00] knows maybe there's gonna be a time in my life Later on where I'll be happy to entertain some kind of discourse, but sorry Like, I think that's absurd to think that, like, anybody should have to engage in especially civil discourse.

[01:20:16] Zane: Like, and said on that note, like I, you know, civil discourse. Also, where's the rage? Like, I want people to be mad. I swear, like, in this country, we are so uncomfortable. And a part of decolonizing myself, this has been, a part of this, is learning how to say no. And is learning to set my boundaries. And then also being outwardly mad.

[01:20:39] Zane: And not being afraid to show that. And not people pleasing. It is, one thing I do appreciate about New York ish is that, like, at least people here are pretty raw.

[01:20:50] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:20:50] Zane: And they're pretty, like, straightforward. Blunt. With how they feel. Yeah. And they wear their, you know, they wear their emotions on their sleeve.

[01:20:58] Zane: That said, like, [01:21:00] people say that New York is not America. It's America. Okay. Like, yeah, even growing up. It's the center of capitalism. Yeah, I mean, like, even growing up, my dad was like, look, when we're, you know, overseas, don't tell people you're American. Tell them you're from New York. And I'd be like, yeah, okay, I guess, like, yeah, New York's a bit different.

[01:21:18] Zane: And yeah, it is beautiful. I am mesmerized by how much beauty I see here. But it is still America, and it is still Empire, and it is the heart, it is the belly of the beast. I'm serious. Yeah.

[01:21:35] Tyler: Absolutely. The, the, the financial institutions are here. That's what generates a lot of the disparity and issues all over the world.

[01:21:43] Zane: So be mad, you know, and be, make people uncomfortable, like, yes.

[01:21:50] Tyler: Do you, do you think, or let me rephrase that, I sometimes struggle with wanting [01:22:00] to be enraged and, and distance people. With also the feeling of, I don't want to distance people because I want to, I want to try to, when I distance them, distance people, I feel like it pushes them away further extreme, as opposed to seeing my humanity, and, and which I shouldn't have to do, I shouldn't have to do, but it's, it is a thing that I struggle with, personally, because I, I want to show people what's going on and not drive them into the arms of more extreme.

[01:22:39] Tyler: Like,

[01:22:39] Zane: have them fall further into the echo chamber? Yeah, yeah. For sure. I mean, look, like, I understand what you're saying.

[01:22:45] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:22:46] Zane: Um.

[01:22:46] Tyler: And, and by the way, this is coming from a, a white dude, you know, Jewish, you know, like, so I'm, you know, I'm in a privileged place, I know.

[01:22:54] Zane: And look, I've been really mad at a lot of my Jewish friends who have been like remarkably silent.

[01:22:59] Zane: And I'm like, [01:23:00] y'all should be the ones. You're in your community like you have a special obligation.

[01:23:04] Tyler: Yeah

[01:23:04] Zane: to be challenging everyone, you know, yeah, right now

[01:23:08] Tyler: Yeah, you know, it's right now. Yeah, you do I've been challenging my family, but That said

[01:23:17] Zane: that said I do believe that there is a space for rage and for distancing Yeah, and I I don't yeah, I think that that's also remarkably human It's just that like You have to ask yourself whether that rage is rooted in a place of compassion or whether it's rooted in a place of indifference and individual, you know, individuality and atomism, not even like to be an individual is a beautiful thing, but to be atomistic is.

[01:23:47] Tyler: I'm not familiar with that word, I'm sorry. Just to be

[01:23:49] Zane: like, just to view yourself as like, not in relation to any other. Okay. You know, to be like, almost like

[01:23:54] Tyler: A tiny atom. A tiny little atom. Okay, I get it now. I'm learning something new every day.

[01:23:59] Zane: This is, [01:24:00] this is some of that cognitive science literature rubbing off, gross, gross intellectualization, disgusting.

[01:24:06] Zane: I love it. But no, yeah, so really, you know, I think that there is equally a space for being like, I'm not going to engage with this, and that like, I'm moving into a new paradigm. Yeah, and that means taking space easier said than done Yeah, because that means saying goodbye to a lot of life and a lot of past and beautiful things And fond memories.

[01:24:30] Zane: So yeah, and I think this is one place where I've been thinking a lot I'm like if I really want to move into like whoever this person is that I'm moving into Yeah, and if I'm really decolonizing really liberating myself There are some people that I should just be like, yeah, I'm not gonna put up with this anymore Even if they're still like pro Palestinian, yeah on other on, you know, the struggle is intersectional Yeah, and I'm just there's to me.

[01:24:55] Zane: It's like I don't really have time to entertain a lot of mediocrity [01:25:00]

[01:25:00] Tyler: Well, I think And that's where art can come into play and that's where art can influence and move people maybe that you don't want to have to interact with but you can show them.

[01:25:11] Zane: Could be.

[01:25:12] Tyler: Could be.

[01:25:12] Zane: Could be. I've been moving away from like even thinking of myself as an artist because I think especially in the beginning of this a part of why I was so like kind of crippled like in terms of like the crippling anxiety and the depression is that all these institutions that I did believe in.

[01:25:27] Zane: Yeah. I. E. art. just were not serving the purposes that they're supposed to and still continue not to and actually are serving in service of violence as a distraction. Um, and so a part of me is like, am I really an artist? I don't know. Like, I don't, no. Yeah, I don't, I really don't. I even, the reason I pulled up a camera and I brought this camera out is because like, and the reason I'm doing photography and video is because I believe in it as a tool of activism.

[01:25:55] Zane: Yeah. First and foremost. And whether I want to [01:26:00] use like the grammar of art to achieve what I want, maybe I will. I, I, or I am. I don't know if I'm an artist. I don't know if I want to, what I do is expression, I think, in the end of the day. I think that art really is a commodity, and like, needs to be analyzed as a commodity.

[01:26:18] Zane: Um, honestly. And we need to see the limitations of that. So I've been like, so scared about being like, am I an artist? Am I not? Like, And again, I've been doing this now. But look, I've been doing this now for two years. Yeah. And I'm still figuring out these questions. And I think these are questions that a lot of You know, young people or people who are new into the process of doing any kind of new expression ask themselves So I don't know but I guess I am an artist and I do believe that for now It does have power to communicate some things.

[01:26:48] Zane: Like I said, I want to create art that makes people uncomfortable

[01:26:51] Tyler: Mm hmm,

[01:26:51] Zane: you know,

[01:26:53] Tyler: so so how are we gonna make a really uncomfortable surf movie? I Have a really good idea [01:27:00] Make everyone watch him on these chairs that we're sitting on. These

[01:27:03] Zane: are great! You know, for someone with bad knees, I'm having a, I'm, I'm feeling pretty comfortable.

[01:27:08] Tyler: Sorry, Joe. My, my fat ass doesn't fit on it. Sorry. Gotta lighten it up a little. Um, Zane, I Really appreciate you sharing everything, uh, on this episode and, and expose, exposing yourself, opening up, um, I really, it was really wonderful. And I really appreciate it. Here's your chance to do the shame, shame, the shameful, shameful plug.

[01:27:39] Tyler: You know, I was thinking

[01:27:41] Zane: about this in the shower this morning. I'm like, what am I going to plug?

[01:27:43] Tyler: What am I plugging? What am I

[01:27:45] Zane: going to plug? Yeah, there's a few things that I'm involved in. I mean,

[01:27:48] Tyler: yeah.

[01:27:49] Zane: Okay, in terms of community building like really y'all like if you're listening to this go again to your communities like surfers in solidarity As long as you're for the cause and we can trust you

[01:27:58] Tyler: what surfers in [01:28:00] solidarity explains

[01:28:01] Zane: Solidarity is a group that has started.

[01:28:03] Zane: Um to Within the Rockaways at least we've I believe there's actually a few. Yeah chapters. Yeah all over. Yeah But it's funny because when it started I was like, oh, this is just a Rockaway activism group and then I found out later It's part of a bigger network, but it's cool because yeah, so We've been involved, and I think, like, if you want to get involved, you should.

[01:28:25] Zane: I mean, there's so many other groups to organize with. You know, WAL, PYM, um, Pal Aouda. Like, these are all really, really Rockaway for ceasefire. Rockaway for ceasefire. Or, sorry, now Rockaway for Palestine. Okay. There's so many groups to be involved with. So, I'd say do that. Like, we have a lot of actions that are still to come.

[01:28:45] Zane: Um, And so please keep an eye out on our Instagram and, you know, social channels. Um, I am for the surf media mentorship. Uh, we're going to have a showing, we're going to have photos up, [01:29:00] you know, that'll probably be in February. So it would be really, really cool to see some people there. Um, and then. I am working on some films.

[01:29:10] Zane: Alright. Uh, I have some things that I'm going to share probably in the beginning of summer. Nice. Um, I, you know, still, still working on it, but it's the first time that I'm going to create something and put it out there that's not just a little 30 second blurb or some kind of ad. I think it's going to be something much more powerful, so.

[01:29:29] Zane: Hopefully we'll screen that. Um, but yeah, that's kind of what I'm doing. And

[01:29:34] Tyler: your sister too, aren't you working with her on a film as well? Yeah, think. Oh

[01:29:37] Zane: my gosh, thanks for reminding me. Oh my. You would've been in trouble. Like she'd have been like, serious. You didn't mention

[01:29:43] Tyler: the film we are working on, by the way, what kind of little brother are you?

[01:29:47] Tyler: Little shit.

[01:29:48] Zane: That's perfect. This is exactly how I'd mimic her . So, yeah, I mean, the thing is, is like, I almost don't even feel like plugging it because it's done so well. She's done such a good job. Yeah. Um. And our team's done such a [01:30:00] great job as well, Mahto and Annika.

[01:30:01] Tyler: What's it called? Um,

[01:30:02] Zane: it's called Where the Wind Blows.

[01:30:04] Tyler: Okay.

[01:30:05] Zane: It's a short film. It just premiered at DocNYC. I saw that. Um, yeah. It is streaming online for the next couple of days. There's a discount code if you want to DM one of us Maybe we can give it away. I don't know if that's up to me or my sister It is a short film that is made though as a kind of like precursor to a feature length that is coming And we are in the process of developing that and have received some grants, which is fantastic.

[01:30:31] Zane: What's

[01:30:31] Tyler: the premise?

[01:30:32] Zane: We're following the story of my You father, um, as he returns to the land in Shefamir and restores it, um, and kind of like, all the, all the stories that are imbued in the land. And then we're also kind of considering, you know, this is a diasporic story. So we're asking the story, we're asking the question of how the land has taken care of us.

[01:30:56] Zane: And then also the challenges that come with being Palestinian [01:31:00] citizens, and then also making a life amidst whatever is going to happen or has happened. And, um, so the story is centered around that. And, uh, yeah, it's. It's really an exploration into those two things, and has some touch of environmental activism here and there, but it's mostly a story about that at the moment.

[01:31:21] Tyler: Amazing. Well, Zane, incredible, and thank you, again, really appreciate it, and, and also I just love, I just love seeing you in the water. It's like, always brings a smile to my face, you're always smiling, and it's just, I really want you to know how much I appreciate it. Seeing you in the water surfing and either shooting or surfing.

[01:31:42] Zane: Yeah,

[01:31:43] Tyler: I kind of prefer you surfing to be honest. I've been told

[01:31:46] Zane: People hate my photos

[01:31:52] Tyler: Just love your vibe and I love

[01:31:54] Zane: sharing the water with you too, you know,

[01:31:56] Tyler: yeah Wow You know, I'm all right. I'm a bit of a [01:32:00] pushover. And now, um, listeners got to give a quick shout out to my man, Joe here at the new stand studio here in Rockefeller center in the heart of Manhattan. And of course, don't forget to like, and subscribe and follow and listen to at Instagram.

[01:32:19] Tyler: And you can go to our website, swell season, surf. com. And, uh, I will check you all down the line soon.

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