Black.Surfers with Kayiita Johansson

[00:00:00] kwame: Okay. Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to episode nine of the WeSurf podcast. I am your host Kwame Labassiere and today I have with me the founder of the black dot surfer community group on discord. Um, I have actually been a member of the, um, discord group for more than two years, maybe three years now.

[00:00:27] And. But this is the first time Kaito and I are actually speaking face to face. So, I am, uh, the questions that you may have if you've never met him are the questions I'm asking him as well because this is, this is as much of a mystery to me. He's as much of a mystery to me as he is to you. So, we're going to go through this.

[00:00:43] So, Kaito, if you please introduce yourself to our, our listeners. And apologies

[00:00:50] kayita: in advance because, uh, the ATV crew is running around my street right now. Very Oakland, uh, experience. Uh, Hey everybody. My name is Kaita Johanson. [00:01:00] And, uh, as Klamath said, I'm the founder of Black Dot Surfers, which is really, uh, an organization committed to the attainment of equity and surfing for Black people through policy and community.

[00:01:11] Um, I'm also an avid surfer, uh, for Curtis shortboard. Uh, I live here in Oakland, but I surf often in Half Moon Bay as well as Santa Cruz and, you know, really excited to be on this podcast, especially with some people that I really admire. I look up to, um, and also thank you a lot about, uh, Nigel on Rockaway as well.

[00:01:31] And the work that you see in their community and really trying to do that on a global scale with black surfers as best I can. So really excited to be here.

[00:01:39] kwame: Nice. Thank you. Thank you very much. And as always, you know, we always say this, Nigel, we are thinking about you and you know, um, hope to see you back on the, on the podcast pretty soon.

[00:01:50] So Kaito, let's start off with the first question. Um, when did you start surfing?

[00:01:57] kayita: Yeah. Yeah. So my wife and I started surfing at the same [00:02:00] time. Uh, each of us, uh, Decided serving would be different, different sizes of our lives. Um, we both learned in the fall of 2014, um, it was actually down in Florida. It was one foot waves and we both got pushed into waves on like 10 foot boards.

[00:02:17] And after that I got hooked. Um, I had like one five second ride and I was like, obviously this is what I should do. Uh, at the time I was living in New York city. So when I went back up to New York, uh, I'd actually go over to Rockaway and Long Beach in the summers and really started surfing more regularly then.

[00:02:35] Um, but unlike a lot of y'all in Rockaway, uh, I limited my surfing between June and September. I, at that time was not ready to surf, uh, those colder waters. Uh, so I had a lot of, all me days in the sun in the summer.

[00:02:53] kwame: You see, I, I mean, I knew this, but I only found that out. Um, pretty recently that you were, uh, that used to surf in, in [00:03:00] New York and, um, back in 2014. So it's very, very good possibility. We may have like passed each other on the boardwalk or, you know, bumped into each other at some point because around 2014 I was, I was still, I was surfing in Rockaway, so that's great.

[00:03:14] And, um, so you said you started in Florida. And then you were, you were from New York and then you, and then you moved out to California at the time afterwards.

[00:03:25] kayita: I'm actually from Minnesota. So absolutely no surfing. Um, dangerous accent. The New York accent. Uh, but I lived in New York for three years. Um, I honestly really enjoyed it.

[00:03:38] Love, love you going back. Um, One of my best friends is over there, but, uh, yeah, I'm from Minnesota. And then I moved to Texas after college and then New York. Um, and I think Florida plus New York is really where I fell in love with surfing. Um, but yeah, I had some great times. The food trucks over there, the it's, it's, it's a much [00:04:00] more of a beachy experience than Northern California is, uh, for sure.

[00:04:05] kwame: So that's interesting because I know many people when they think of, um, California, especially those of us on the East coast, we don't make that separation between Southern California and Northern California. It's us. It's just. California. So, from, from up, from the top all the way down to San Diego, Baja, it's like, it's all California.

[00:04:24] Everyone is just the same type of, same type of vibes and it's, it's everything. So that's, that's interesting that you say that. That's what I

[00:04:30] kayita: thought too. Um, I was like, Oh, I'm moving to California. It's like, actually I'm moving to Northern California. This is different.

[00:04:39] kwame: Yeah, I remember the first time, um, first time I actually landed, I went out to surf in California.

[00:04:46] Um, cause I'd been there before, but never like specifically just to surf. And the first time I went there, flew into John Wayne airport.

[00:04:54] kayita: Okay. Yeah. And I was like,

[00:04:57] kwame: yeah. So then it was like, okay, you know, so, you know, I [00:05:00] had a friend who lived out there and we hit up all these spots, you know, San Onofre, um, Doheny and all those spots.

[00:05:06] I'm out of time. I went, I flew into LAX. I'm like, Oh, okay. I'm like, Oh, this is a whole different world. A little different. This is a little different. Okay. Um, yeah, I'm not going to be driving out here. I'm good.

[00:05:21] kayita: The word is like metropolis. Over there. Yeah, it really,

[00:05:27] kwame: it really, it really blew my mind. And I'll, and even before that, I always make the joke with some friends and I say that, you know, the, up until I actually visited California for the first time, which was like 96, 97, I always thought my, my impression of California came from, uh, Grand Theft Auto San Andreas.

[00:05:48] Just drive back and forth. And it was like, no big deal. It's just like, drive here, drive there. And then when I finally read it, I was like, Oh, this is so different. Oh my God.

[00:05:58] kayita: One thing about GTA, we all have [00:06:00] to say, but it has really opened our eyes to, you know, other, other areas of the world.

[00:06:05] kwame: Absolutely.

[00:06:06] Absolutely. Okay. So

[00:06:08] kayita: it's non gaming. So, uh, it's even. You would harder now. I know I worked at a gaming space. So,

[00:06:15] kwame: Oh, nice. So you, um, so you started, um, so you moved out to California and you said that's where you really like took root and you kept surfing on, used to start a surfing there. Um, what, what prompted you and what was, what was the driving force then for black dot surfers.

[00:06:33] Um, well, let's see. I'm going to call it a community, but I'm saying that with, with a caveat, because a little later in the podcast, I'm going to refer to it as something else.

[00:06:45] kayita: Interesting. Suspense is building. Um, yeah, I would say definitely in the beginning. Uh, it was much more community oriented. Uh, so that's a good segue for me in New York.

[00:06:57] I, the [00:07:00] need to be surrounded with other minorities wasn't as strong in my brain because every time I went surfing, it was very diverse. Uh, I would bring my friends. And my friend group was very diverse at the time. So, uh, you know, I had men, women, black people, Indian people, Asian, you know, I had everybody white guys.

[00:07:19] And so to me, surfing was multicultural. It didn't even occur to me that it wouldn't be like that. And yeah, there were some people in the water though, you know, definitely were a little irritable, but I didn't associate that with surfing. I associated my friend group and my experience. In Rockaway in Long Beach, Missouri, which was amazing and, uh, really inclusive, um, just because of my friend group, when I moved to California, uh, and I started surfing over here, I did not have that type of building group of friends that I could go surf with.

[00:07:51] And ended up surfing a lot by myself or with a couple other, uh, white guys and the water, you know, [00:08:00] was filled with other, other white folks. Right. And I didn't have that same diverse group to, to bring to the beach. And it felt quite stark in comparison to my experience in New York city. So I started to kind of grade on me.

[00:08:14] Um, and it really felt like we're just missing that sense of community and. It's funny because fast forwarding now, there's actually lots of us that surf over there, like those places that I was surfing at the time, like Pacifica. But you know, if you're not coordinating or there's so few of you, it can feel like you're the only ones, right?

[00:08:31] And so I was spending a lot of time on Instagram at the time, I think early 2018. And my wife was like, we should probably be something productive with this time. And so that coupled with, uh, instead of just watching surf videos, so that coupled with that kind of need for community. Uh, maybe decide to start Black Hat Surfers.

[00:08:50] And at first You know, I posted probably with us friends, my wife and I, and then I just started searching the worldwide web for black surfers. Um, [00:09:00] I was searching all the hashtags. I was like, black surf, black surfers, black people on the water. Uh, Afro surf, black people surf too, I was searching all these hashtags and slowly finding people to kind of spread that awareness that people were out there and also trying to find people in my area too.

[00:09:18] Um, and yeah, that's how it definitely started. But of course it's grown into something, uh, much bigger than I actually imagined. I'm really excited about it.

[00:09:26] kwame: Yeah. And move it on from that. The reason why I said I'm going to I'm slowly calling it a community or putting a caveat on community because it has grown to much more than a community, um, now.

[00:09:38] And I think that, you know, at least during, uh, the pandemic and while after George Floyd's, um, after the killing of George Floyd, really became a movement at that point, because, you know, I saw a lot of people, because I mean, and I was part of it. A lot of people were on the discord. Chat on the discord [00:10:00] group, you know, basically been able to speak their minds and voice in their thoughts, voice in their emotions, voice in their fears, because at the time it really was, it was very, it was scary.

[00:10:12] It was extremely scary for, for, for, for, for people, you know, and especially if you were not, if you were a person of color, a black person. And on top of that, you know, surfing as well, a sport, which a sport, which may not necessarily be thought of as something that black people do, you know, being able to speaking for myself, being able to go onto the discord group.

[00:10:34] And even if, you know, I may not have been as vocal as some, but just seeing that there were other people out there who felt the same way that I did, it really was extremely powerful. Comforting to see that. Um, so first, thank you for that. Thank you for giving us that platform. And, um, secondly, you know, what did you think when you, when you, when you saw that happen and that it was, Oh, at what point did you even realize if you did realize that, Hey, this has actually gotten quite [00:11:00] big and people actually need this.

[00:11:02] kayita: Yeah. You know, one thing I think about, especially being from Minnesota, uh, so my wife and I actually went to some of the memorials, uh, around George Floyd when we went back to visit family, et cetera. And. One thing I realized is that, you know, they tried to take our power away from us. Right. And I think they do that, you know, every day and in different systems.

[00:11:24] And, you know, this was a very prominent example, period of time where people could not ignore what was happening. And so I think what was good about our community and the other communities that have spawned off of it and kind of this growing tough, united, but different coalition movements, right. Is that we are.

[00:11:43] We quickly reclaimed that power, and we recognized that united we're going to stand stronger together, and that's something I definitely try to upgrade in everything I do with Black Surfers, that, uh, it's not about, or it isn't A, B, C, D, through Z, it's about all of us just working [00:12:00] together towards this common goal, uh, of getting us in the water, of getting that equitable access, and making us feel powerful again, right?

[00:12:07] Because, um, We deserve that. It's in our blood. I think the Wade in the Water documentary does a great job of, uh, exemplifying that and demonstrating that. And, um, You know, it's our blood, right? So, yeah, I think, uh, it was really awesome seeing, you know, in 2018, very few followers, uh, people would say, you know, I'm going to give you this content, but it's just going to build your following, you know, how is this helping me to, uh, a world where now, you know, we have lots of folks that are contributing to the community.

[00:12:40] It's super positive. We've created this inclusive community and, you know, we're doing things with it. Right. We're inspiring kids every day. I get people in the DM say, you know, my child, my son, my daughter, look up to everybody that gets posted on your, your platform. We get to know and discover other surfers that are becoming role models to my [00:13:00] children.

[00:13:00] Um, we see things that we're doing in the policy world. Also, let's talk about and. How are we going to advance that for people that may not even know, right. You and I might never even see their Instagrams or, or know about them, but they're, they've got an access to circling now because of the work that we'll be doing with all these other organizations.

[00:13:17] So yeah, it's definitely a slow roll and it's, it's interesting because my wife doesn't have thoughts about this, but it's important to kind of build things slowly, right? Because then it's, it's, it's authentic. You're leading with integrity and. Um, over time you can figure out what everybody else also needs.

[00:13:37] And so that you guide the organization towards that. I think with LifeSurfer, that would do that. Cause. We're coming up on like six years, or over six years now, and um, we've seen the community change and grow, and different initiatives happen, and we're just trying to support all that, because I can only think of three things, a lot of people will think of [00:14:00] a million other things.

[00:14:01] And we should try to encourage all of that. And it's all the way towards that central mission.

[00:14:07] kwame: Nice. How do you find the time? Because so you, again, I'm a member, so I'm a member, you're the, you're the admin, um, of a forum, essentially. So I've been admins on forums before, nothing nearly as big as this. Plus you also have a full time job and you surf.

[00:14:33] So. Where do you find, how do you find the time or just just to be able to stay as present because again, you know, like I keep saying I'm a member so I see how present you are just to be able to be that present within the organization because I don't think there's anyone who can say that as they're there.

[00:14:52] In the, in, in the discord group that Kite is ignoring or he's not around, he's not there because you are [00:15:00] very present in it all.

[00:15:03] kayita: I appreciate that and I think it's, uh, a few things. One is, and I'll continue to say this over and over because it continues to be true is, My life is very supportive. Um, you know, we've been together since 2014 and got married two years ago and just under two years ago, and she's just been consistently supportive of the experience.

[00:15:28] I told you from the beginning, she was like, let's do something for that. And then throughout, she's been this like really dynamic, awesome supporter of this mission and the time I spend on it. And so she understands when, you know, I turn off the work laptop and I turn on my personal laptop. She knows what I'm up to.

[00:15:44] She understands the impact of she values that, you know, so she really supports that. And I think the second thing is, um, really leaning into the awesomeness of the black surfers leads. Uh, so over like the last year, year and a [00:16:00] half, I realized there's so much impact that black surfers could accomplish in this world.

[00:16:06] Help our community. And I was bottlenecking it because I was the only one, right. And I didn't need to be the only one. And so I started talking to a few people about potentially like helping also lead the organization. And so there's some really awesome leads and advisors, uh, for this group that I'm really leaning on.

[00:16:27] And. We're going to make some awesome stuff pop off this year. I'm really excited about it. And it's because they're stepping up to the plate too, and seeing the vision and what we can accomplish together. And so folks like, uh, Lawrence Rickford, Hans Longhoff, um, We've got Jake Matthews on the leads team.

[00:16:46] And then for advisors, we have Olga, we've got Giselle, and I think together we're really shaping what black servers can be, and it also enables me to spend a little bit of time on the discord to also communicate and respond to people. But yeah, [00:17:00] I think because of them, you know, we're able to do some really big things, so I'm excited for this year.

[00:17:05] kwame: Nice. Thank you. Okay. So those of you who are listening again, look out for that because you, you heard it here first, the big things that come into the, to the black dot service group. Definitely. Um, approximately, I mean, best guess, how many users do you think you have?

[00:17:26] kayita: Oh, I just looked at this last week. Um, I think we have about 670.

[00:17:32] So understand me folks. And then I just recently started up this, uh, email list too. I'm going to send out my first email in a couple of weeks and there's just over a hundred people on that. So I'm going to try and publicize that to you. Um, cause this court, obviously being back, I'm like, this court definitely has its pros and cons for the people that already played video games.

[00:17:54] It's like an amazing. Yeah. Later connect with folks. I'm not for people that don't use discord. It's like, [00:18:00] okay, this is like advanced.

[00:18:04] kwame: So definitely try to find out how a few people talk about it and, and, and, you know, some people like, Oh, it's wonderful. I was like, Hmm. Where do I click again? How do I make this work?

[00:18:18] kayita: Myself too, to be honest.

[00:18:22] Which button? So yeah, we're gonna try the email list as well. Just to make sure that everybody gets the message. Some people are on Instagram, but you know, also sometimes people want to take a hiatus. Understandably so. I don't want to say, well, you have to be on social media, consuming all this other content in order to understand what we got going on as a community.

[00:18:44] I'm like, that's probably not fair. So I don't create email lists. That's also really helpful. And people are aware of how they can get plugged in or get free stuff or go on trips with us, you know, or support policy initiatives ever thinking about. So I'm [00:19:00] really excited about that.

[00:19:01] kwame: And that's one thing which I like about it is that, or not Discord specifically, this is not a plug, but about the chat, about the, um, the, the, the community, it's constantly evolving.

[00:19:11] It's almost like it's alive because I've seen like groups appear and someone will say, Oh, it'll be great if we had this. And then within a couple hours, then, you know, that group appears, not that they're trying to be secular from everyone else, but you know, if there's a group of New York surfers, yes, you know, It's great to hear about what's going on in California, but at the same time, we want to have a conversation with ourselves.

[00:19:33] So we want to surf 69th. We want to surf 90th. Same thing with people who surf in San Diego as opposed to Venice Beach. So I think it's constantly evolving. I've seen, um, Tips. I've seen health tips, fitness, where people can buy, where people are selling boards, you know, photos, contests, everything that's going on in there.

[00:19:52] So that's one of the things which I really like about the community you've created is that it is constantly evolving based on what, based on the [00:20:00] needs that people are expressing as they, as, as, as they, as they go through it. And, um, I think it's extremely beneficial to everyone.

[00:20:09] kayita: Yeah. And I love, um, you know, you mentioned like, you know, I'm in there.

[00:20:13] I'm trying to be as present as I can, but I think also what's awesome is kind of like this, like next line of folks that are highly engaged. And one thing I really, for like how I imagine my community to be is this community where no one is gatekeeping. Everyone is sharing the information that they know about and trying to help people learn and become surfers and get excited about the sport and develop that passion.

[00:20:39] Intrinsically, and There's a bunch of people, um, that have done that and really been super supportive of new people and beginners on the chat. But one person just recently by us that I want to call out as Neurata down in Texas, he's been, so when you talk about like those health tips to do with that, [00:21:00] I think his name on there is like DJ Tantrum Ross.

[00:21:02] I still don't know exactly what, what's the word is behind that name.

[00:21:04] kwame: DJ

[00:21:10] kayita: Tantrum Ross, if you are

[00:21:11] kwame: listening to this. Hit up. Hit, hit him up and let him know please. Actually, you know what hit us, all of us now wanna know.

[00:21:18] kayita: We all wanna know. We wanna know. He shared, we wanna know, but he shared some awesome tips like with the bump in Texas, there's actually a lot of people in Texas that are black and are surfing and Mm-hmm.

[00:21:32] He's got tips and he shares them, you know, he doesn't just learn and keeps it to himself. You know, and I think that's the sort of culture that I aspire to see in the world. And I think, um, these are also gone, uh, gone in Texas and across the, the square itself. Yeah.

[00:21:47] kwame: Yeah. That sounds great. It's great. I remember there was one time I, someone, I forget the exact question they asked, but I.

[00:21:55] Put on the the the phd hat and I went into this full [00:22:00] Explanation on how waves form and the whole piece of waves and the formula you can use And you were like, oh you need to do something like oh god, what did I get myself into?

[00:22:12] kayita: That's my problem. I'll be like, you give me, I'll be like, let's

[00:22:14] kwame: do X plus Y.

[00:22:16] Yeah. You started this man. I'll open the box. It's on you. But no, it was actually, I mean, the funny thing about that though, when they were actually a lot of people who DMed me on the side asking me, Hey, can you go a little bit more into this? Because, you know, we really want to know about this. So I sent them the information and you know, it was, it was pretty much, it was pretty raw.

[00:22:37] Um, I was thinking what this formula means and so on. And, you know, afterwards. You know, people wrote back and said, Oh, this makes perfect sense to me. I'm like, Oh, okay, great. So it's not just me geeking out on this stuff. Yeah, that's amazing. So this is pretty, this is pretty, that was pretty epic. It was pretty epic.

[00:22:55] Um, that's another thing I noticed

[00:22:57] kayita: in there too, is that the DMs are definitely [00:23:00] Very active. I didn't realize that, but yeah, sometimes you don't want to post for all 600 people to see whatever you were thinking about. And people are actually very active on the DMs. Like, Oh, what you said is actually very interesting.

[00:23:11] Or, Hey, we should go surf together. So it's actually awesome that, you know, people are slow with that in that way. And Gali learned from the PhD. He's just, yeah,

[00:23:25] kwame: it's, it was, it was pretty much, and you know, also speaking of just like, Hey, like you said, Hey, let's, let's go surf together. Um, that actually was interesting.

[00:23:34] The first time in, The first time it actually happened. So again, speaking for myself, you know, we surf in where we surf and we know the people in that area and, you know, so if someone doesn't necessarily live on Rockaway or maybe see them enough times, then yes, we know them, but to actually have a complete stranger hit us up and say, are you guys going to be here?

[00:23:54] Yes, we are. I would love to come surf with you. Well, why don't you come on down? Here's how you would [00:24:00] recognize us. It was almost like a first date type of situation. Here's where we're going to be. I'll be the guy with the pink board. I'll be standing next to him. You're nervous. You're nervous. You know, so it was almost like a first date.

[00:24:12] First date type of situation. And even speaking to the person who came down, they're like, yeah, I was nervous. Cause as far as I know, I'm going to meet like, you know, 12 of these other people I've never seen before. What if you guys think I'm a kook? What if this, what if that? So, but then, you know, just, it became, it just became literally, Oh, here's another person to bring into the family.

[00:24:33] And like, here we go. And we're just all together. So.

[00:24:37] kayita: Out really well. Well,

[00:24:39] kwame: yeah. I like the, the,

[00:24:40] kayita: the, the metaphor of the first day, typically best spot , whenever someone calls and meets all everybody for the first time, it's definitely like this song out. But I think that's exciting. Like, how's

[00:24:50] kwame: this gonna work?

[00:24:51] And am I meeting you? Am I meeting your representative? Because you know what exactly is going on here, . But it was, it [00:25:00] was, it was, it was, it was great. So far nobody's been burned. Everybody's been amazing. Um. So again, speaking of how amazing everyone is, as I said, you know, you are the admin slash moderator on it.

[00:25:13] And, you know, again, we do have some conversations in the, in the, in the group that can get pretty heated. So not because anyone is specifically trying to target anyone else, but just because, you know, just because of what the discussion, the topic. That we are currently discussing, can people have different views?

[00:25:32] Because not everybody, we don't all live in a vacuum. Everybody has different views on different things. So I've seen you manage that and tread those waters, but can you explain a little bit to our listeners how exactly you go about, um, keeping. The black dot surfers group, uh, along this, along the same lines and, you know, where it doesn't become, you know, a, basically a flame war back and forth between people.

[00:25:56] kayita: Yeah. Oh, that's a great phrase. [00:26:00] Um, well, the first thing I would say is that, uh, learning how to do that effectively as you know, as I am the admin for that community on discord has definitely been a journey. I never moderated. Uh, That's really before or digital affinity like that. And so it was definitely a journey.

[00:26:19] I think, um, you know, over like a year or 2, I definitely figured out the ropes looking back. There's definitely things that would have changed at the beginning, but, um, I think at a high level, there's you need to have, like, a North star about what kind of community you're trying to create. Right. It's like, this is a community.

[00:26:39] I, you know, I even think about like, you know, not to get too polarizing one way or the other, but I think about like what Elon's doing with the X right now. Right. And there's one way of doing it, which is I'm just following the law and anything that is legal is going to be accepted on this platform.

[00:26:57] Right. And then you can continue to go farther in terms of [00:27:00] moderation. And I think where I want black servers to be, and that community is positive, inclusive. And it's definitely going to go beyond, you know, what the letter of the law says in terms of respect. Of course, we want to make sure that people can feel free to express themselves, but it's within those bounds.

[00:27:18] Because at the end of the day, like, that's what the vision for the community is. And that's how I want everyone to feel. I want everybody to feel included, like they belong, right. It's a positive environment. And so I had to learn over time, like how to actually enforce that. The rules channel at the discord is quite long now.

[00:27:37] Um, but yeah, I think it's really important because everyone has different levels of, everyone's coming from different places, right. And everyone has different experiences and everyone's in a different mental state. And so to really create that positive community for you might look different than what it looks like.

[00:27:55] For me to have a, what my view is of a positive community versus someone else. And so [00:28:00] it's really important as an admin to be consistent with that and to make sure that I'm nipping things in the bud on things that detract from that North Star vision. So, they have definitely learned over time, uh, how to do that.

[00:28:13] Um, but I think right now, what I've seen over the last year is a lot of that, what that North Star vision is, which is anyone has a question. Highly supported. Really great answers that are being provided by myself or other people. And I think everybody understands what the deal is, you know? It's like, we're not playing around, we're trying to make sure it's a place where everybody belongs.

[00:28:34] You know, and feels supported. Yeah, definitely, definitely.

[00:28:38] kwame: Um, um, so what would you say, if you, let's, given you a crystal ball time machine, you know, taking away, um, your current, taking away the current job that keeps the lights on, and say, okay, yes. What, you're perfect if you had your druthers. As a [00:29:00] former ex, a former boss of mine used to say, if you had your drivers, what would black dot surfers look like in, let's say, about five years in five

[00:29:08] kayita: years?

[00:29:08] Uh, I

[00:29:14] think it was like Bill Gates that said everybody, uh, overestimates the amount of change that can happen in two years, but underestimates what can happen in five. Um, so I don't want to underestimate. Um, I think in five years, Black Surfers is a 5, 000 person organization across the world. We have different groups that have their main, you know, title, but maybe they're also associated with Black Surfers.

[00:29:45] So we're able to send them resources too, or send them, you know, how did we get this sponsorship? How did we get XYZ? So that they can speed up what they're trying to do. At SteamWorld, we're, we're co sponsoring legislation. Uh, [00:30:00] as black surfers and we're seeing, uh, black surfers getting to live by the beach.

[00:30:05] Black people in general getting to live by the beach, greater coastal access. Um, I'm seeing people run their own mini meetups. That's one thing that we think a lot about is how do we help people and lower that barrier to run mini meetups of their own? Um, whether that's like through fiscal sponsorship or, you know, just guidance on how that works.

[00:30:26] Just to your point. I think that's a great way to put it. I'm really going to think about that because it's like it feels like a first date and so First dates are always nervous and nerve wracking. And so how do I mm-Hmm, make it less pressure for someone so that they can say, oh yeah, I'll organize something for four or five people.

[00:30:42] Um, and I see that community being extremely active, where we're tossing in free promos and things and, and gear and, and people are helping each other and feeling super comfortable asking all types of questions. And people are video chatting and doing voice calls on the, on the [00:31:00]community. It's just this really super active, uh, community and supportive community.

[00:31:05] I think that's what I see. Hope I didn't under call it. Let's see. Oh, this must be the train. I was

[00:31:14] like,

[00:31:15] kwame: is it that a lag? So you spoke a little bit about legislation, other types of legislation. Are you, are you, do you, do you foresee or would you like to see happen?

[00:31:26] kayita: All of that. So I think there's so many different ways that white supremacy has impacted our community. And I think. Um, it's important that, of course, we have to prioritize across all those different ways, the things that will yield the biggest benefits to the black serving community.

[00:31:50] Um, I think it's important to acknowledge all those different vectors, all those different themes of things. 1 is absolutely like land reclamation. [00:32:00] Um, and I think it's really exciting what trying to remember her name, but she ran that, uh, Bruce's Beach reclamation effort, and now she's working on, uh, Uh, a bunch of other initiatives, uh, maybe the original beach club, having a beach club after two.

[00:32:16] Um, so there's definitely like a layout reclamation piece of it, but one thing I think about, and I think I hinted at this earlier, it's, it's obviously exciting to feel like, I feel like I know, At least like 89%, or at least I've seen their names. 89 percent of black surfers, at least just kind of out there.

[00:32:33] Um, but I really excited for a world where I actually don't know everybody. Actually, I only know like 5%. Um, and those people, the other 95 percent are just people that have benefited from policy work that we've all done together to figure out how do we support that next generation? So that they feel comfortable becoming surfers and becoming avid surfers.

[00:32:55] You know, there was, I'm going to read out a stat from, uh, what was it? [00:33:00] Um, surf USA, uh, surf industry. That's what it was. Um, so they said, Hey, African American surfers have risen from 8. 7 percent in 2022 to 11%, which on the surface is like super exciting. Um, because you're like, okay, great. You know, we're roughly 14, 15%.

[00:33:19] Of the U. S. population, we're getting close, right? Um, when you peel back those layers, the way they define a surfer is someone who, you know, surfed once, like, over the past year, basically.

[00:33:30] kwame: Yes.

[00:33:31] kayita: So how do we increase that percentage there, but also increase it across the funnel, because I'm willing to bet you started looking at people who regularly surf percentage drops enormously.

[00:33:42] So basically people who are actually surfing regularly, it's still very limited and there's a lot of ways we can impact that housing is one of the top things online because right now, uh, the way housing works is especially in coastal areas is kind of, we got here first. So deal with it. [00:34:00]Yeah. And, or, yeah, well, yeah, you just.

[00:34:03] Just work really hard and you can buy property here too. And then they point to a few people and say, look, it's possible. But in reality, what happened is like you systemically prevented us from actually living in those areas. And I think a lot about even just like local examples for me, and I'm sure you have lots of examples in New York city to local examples in areas like Santa Cruz where, uh, in the seventies and previous to that as well, there was a lot of red lining and people prevented from living in Santa Cruz.

[00:34:29] And so a lot of black folks that were moving to that area actually had moved like lots of bill. Uh, where they were allowed to live, which is inland, uh, away from the water, uh, folks that did manage to buy property, had their homes burned down in Santa Cruz. And now you can see the zoning laws, there's a lot of single family homes in Santa Cruz.

[00:34:49] And as soon as you see the area where there's multifamily homes, you can also overlap that map with the demographics. And it's almost like exclusively white. Where [00:35:00] there's single family homes and then it starts getting more diverse when there's multifamily. And so it's very clear that time between policy and, you know, equity for black people, and so definitely housing is a part of that.

[00:35:14] Really supporting what the California Coastal Commission right now, I'm thinking a lot about California, although we do want to go more national with this, but there's a commission in California called the California Coastal Commission that works on maintaining beach access. So how do we support those efforts so that people don't privatize beaches or make certain surf breaks impossible to reach how we improve parking, public transportation, access to learning how to swim.

[00:35:42] Right. It's like the other crazy thing about swimming side note is definitely for black kids. I think it's like a six or seven out of 10 black kids don't have water safety training. So it's not even like proficient swimming. It's just. Can you survive if you run into the water? But [00:36:00] actually like half of white kids are also in the same boat, which is wild.

[00:36:05] Um, but it's just another example of what happens when a policy is perceived to support black people, they just kill it, even if it supports everybody. Um, and so how do we fight back against those things? How do we drive all seen those areas? And. The other thing, so Olga and I, uh, she's one of the advisors last year, we spent a lot of time thinking about policy and how it will impact black people in America specifically.

[00:36:29] And you know, I really want to say, you know, if I had a hat, I'd say hats off to Olga because she really, and she's had that experience also doing policy advocacy, but she had some really great ideas about things we can be doing. And so definitely all those areas, but you can even go further and start looking at, well, if you want to swim in a pool, right, how do we actually build that comfort for you in the ocean.

[00:36:50] How do we think about junior lifeguard programs, which I actually didn't really dig into much when I was in New York city, but at least in California, it's very clear how junior lifeguard [00:37:00] programs help you get well taught in the ocean. There's like a strong correlation between that and performance and surfing, uh, because you're just so comfortable in the ocean.

[00:37:09] They have kids in Newport jumping off the end of the tier of swimming math, I mean, it's just, it's next level. Um, yeah. How do we encourage and require. And those programs, uh, all those things we're kind of thinking about, especially because a lot of those are like public funds, right? So thinking a lot about multiple themes where we can have a short, medium and long term policy roadmap.

[00:37:35] And I also want to give a shout out to the surf justice collective. Which is this coalition of, uh, nonprofits that's forming, uh, to really work on, uh, policy initiatives. And, you know, we just recently got accepted to join them as well. So we're really excited about that. And one of the key things that they're driving forward are expanding permitting for [00:38:00] nonprofits in California.

[00:38:01] Because right now, a lot of the permitting is managed locally. And so what happens is each local municipality or local city has their own rules and regulations about what it takes to, to, to get a permit. And oftentimes it ends up getting really limited to a couple for profit schools, and it's very difficult for nonprofits to actually be able to run programs officially.

[00:38:24] And so, of course, that, uh, is unfortunate that you have to either pay 120 or operate something illicitly. Uh, it's That's one of the pieces of legislation that we're actually trying to work on and push through, which I'm really excited about. They author outreaches really spearheading out, which we're really excited about.

[00:38:41] So there's a lot of things in motion right now. And of course, obviously it takes time, but you know, I want to get to a place where instead of me knowing 95%

[00:38:53] I'm like, I need to keep track. That's amazing.

[00:38:56] kwame: Yeah. I think that, um, I mean, you said a lot there, which, which [00:39:00]resonated with me a lot as well. And I think it will resonate with our listeners as well. Um, you know, number one, I would love to be at that point as well where, you know, I paddle out and like, I don't know anybody out here, but.

[00:39:12] That's okay. That's okay. I'm good. You know, I'm quite happy. I'm done. I'm done. You know, that's, that's, that's, I'm good. So that's that. I'll hang up a

[00:39:25] kayita: jersey that same day. I'll be like perfect. Yeah,

[00:39:28] kwame: perfect. I will be that guy sitting down in the beach chair with the longboard behind them talking about back in my day.

[00:39:36] So I would happily do that if I can paddle out and not be out there. Um, and the second thing, yeah, you playing

[00:39:43] kayita: like, oh my wave. I'll be like, ah. Exactly,

[00:39:46] kwame: exactly. And uh, another thing as well is I remember growing up, and to tell you the truth, I don't, I mean, so I wasn't born in the us I was born in the Caribbean and, uh, Commonwealth of Dominica family moved to, uh, [00:40:00] Grenada and we used to hop around a lot, but I really have to think hard to a point in my life when I did not swim.

[00:40:09] I have to, like, really think back hard to try to figure out at what point in my life could I not swim, you know, because I remember, I mean, I think of swimming, I remember hurtling myself off of a jetty and then backflipping and almost like scraping myself against the stone jetty as I fell down, like, ah, ha ha ha, and you swim and you try it again, and then, you know, um, But now, you know, especially in the summer, we get out there in the summer and I see people going into the water and I'm like, what are you doing?

[00:40:37] Don't you see there's a rip current right there, but you are taking this two year old right into it. Please, for the love of God, stop. Don't do that. And it's just because they they either don't know Don't underestimate the power of the ocean or just don't care. And then, you know, I'm sure it's the same with you.

[00:40:56] A lot of times the ones doing the rescues, if there are no [00:41:00] lifeguards around are the surfers. Because we recognize a lot of things that are out there. Um, yeah. And,

[00:41:07] kayita: and, sorry, go ahead. I was going to say, no, go ahead. I've been rescued. I've rescued others. Like, that's just kind of like part of me. If I agree with you, yeah.

[00:41:16] Um, just kind of looking out. Yeah.

[00:41:22] kwame: And as far as the, with the, with the land grabs, and I mean, that, that resonates as well because, um, you know, of course, beachfront property goes for a couple million, whatever. And, you know, I, again, remember maybe I'm just dating myself or I'm doing a, you know, premature back in my day, you know, it, it wasn't like that.

[00:41:45] And people lived on the beach or, and I don't think there was ever anybody who said, this is my section of beach. You cannot come here, you know, in no way, shape, or form. Can you come here? But right now, even in Jamaica, there are parts of Jamaica where the locals can't go on this certain [00:42:00] parts of the beach because it's been bought and sold to specific hotels for the tourists, and I'm not going to go to a tourist and say, you shouldn't be here if they don't know.

[00:42:11] But. Whoever sold it to them, whoever sold it to the hotels, you know, this is a thing in Jamaica right now because the locals I've been here for my entire life. Now, all of a sudden you're telling me I can't come here anymore. Why? So, no, it really is a sad state of affairs. But, um, you know, like you said, the policies, as long as people are aware of it and willing to make a change and not just saying to themselves, you know, it's awesome.

[00:42:36] That's how things are, then, you know, eventually the change will happen, you know, and I think, uh,

[00:42:43] kayita: 2024 ain't nothing but a number. I thought in my head, I said, Oh, we're in the two thousands. We're in the 2020s, you know, progress, you know, the other day, you know, breed is, uh, is our constant reality. And if we do nothing, [00:43:00] you're not, we know where things will trend.

[00:43:01] Right. And concentration of resources, et cetera. That's a whole nother podcast, but, uh, yeah, we have to fight that.

[00:43:09] kwame: Yeah, definitely. Uh, so in addition to, you also mentioned that, I mean, going back to. Back, backtracking a little bit, speaking about, you know, and I'm really going to use this. I have lived for the day when I'm not going to recognize anybody in the water.

[00:43:22] I'm going to use that moving forward.

[00:43:23] kayita: Let's go.

[00:43:24] kwame: That's the dream. The, so Black Dot Surfers, I mean, it's international at this point. And what was that? What did it feel like when you actually realized that, Oh, this is not just a bunch of surfers out in California. This is not just people that I said, Oh, would you like to go surfing?

[00:43:44] This is actually an international. Group of people who are meeting and talking and expressing ideas and sharing because it is, it is a forum in the true sense of the word. It's an international forum. What was that feeling like when you first realized that? [00:44:00]

[00:44:00] kayita: Yeah. Um, it's a great question. What do I feel? I think I felt, uh, honored a little bit, obviously excited, but I think I also felt honored because, you know, I grew up in America, I was born here.

[00:44:16] I have a very America, America centric view of the world, right? And I think that's kind of a problem with all a lot of Americans. Um, and, but my assumption was that I think folks might need this elsewhere. Right. And that sense of community. And actually at first, when, cause before the discord, I actually had other chats.

[00:44:39] I had chats on Instagram and I was running chats. For LA, for New York, for the Bay. And then I started branching out and I was doing, uh, chats for Brazil. Uh, I was doing chats for West Africa, South Africa, Australia. Um, and I just remember, you know, [00:45:00] I think especially in 2020 as well, I think, uh, a lot of black Americans, you know, Y'all either have these experiences or we're thinking about it.

[00:45:09] And I think 2020 just made it very clear, like why it was just so important, why black servers is valuable. But I think for a lot of folks, especially in other countries, sometimes they don't even think about, you know, black or white, right. In that same way. Um, and so it was really interesting to hear their perspectives too.

[00:45:28] What I also realized was that actually going back to what you were just talking about with Jamaica, um, with the hotels, et cetera, is that, you know, it may not be black or white, but there will still be this oppressor and oppressed dynamic and who has the power and who does not have the power. And that was one thing I realized that really folks started to gravitate towards where it was like, Oh no, I see everybody, I see my brothers, you know, I see my brothers, I see my sisters.

[00:45:54] Um, like we're all out here surfing. Then. You start realizing, wait a minute, [00:46:00]yeah, we don't get access to certain things, or yeah, these folks arcing us down. How do we rise up? How do we unite together and fight this in our own unique way? Right? What policy initiatives might make sense in California will be different than Rockaway will be different in Jamaica will be different in, you know, more East Brazil.

[00:46:15] It's like all those kind of initiatives have to be different, but I think we all have to realize like, oh, but we're all facing our different dynamics in our areas. How do we do things specific to our areas? Uh, to advance and get to equity for us. And so I think that was like, really humbling, but also like an honor to kind of facilitate those chats and connect those folks together.

[00:46:37] That maybe, at first, we're not thinking about in terms of, you know, how do we bond with other Black surfers.

[00:46:44] kwame: No, I think that, no, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And, you know, it's, it's, uh, What you said is right on point because you know, necessarily what works in California may not necessarily work in Jamaica or Dominica or even New York.

[00:46:59] [00:47:00] However, I can see what you did, take it, reshape it to what may work out here. And then, so instead of starting from zero, I'm actually starting from second gear. So I can actually get the, get this ball rolling a lot faster with the resources that I put that I would pull from black dot surfers and the other surfers around the world.

[00:47:19] So, yeah, so it's, it's really not about just, you know, I'm working, I'm on this by myself because nobody wants to feel like they're alone in their struggle. And, you know, seeing that necessarily seeing that is there, you know, you may not have the exact same struggle as me, but Hey. Oppressed. You're still oppressed.

[00:47:37] And so am I. So, you know, I want to surf these waves. You want to surf these waves. How did you get it? How did you succeed? No, I can, I'm going to see if I can use it as well. So that's, that's great. Um, Have you had any pushback or kickback from anyone about, because I know of certain points, especially when you see things saying black dot surfers or black [00:48:00] surfers or black surfers collective or black surfers dot com Usually there's at least one person who says well, why is this only for?

[00:48:08] Black people, are you trying to say that's, and actually, I'm going to say this on the pod, this podcast. I've actually been told that if I advertise something, even we surf, they always spoke is for surfers of color or, um, who feel marginalized. Well, that's being racist. What about, you know, that's, that's just, you're actually being racist with that.

[00:48:27] So have you ever experienced anything like that or has anyone ever come to you and said, you know, why are you making it a point to separate black surfers specifically?

[00:48:38] kayita: Yeah, duh. Uh, absolutely. And, you know, definitely there's an emotion in my chest. It's a little bit of anger, you know, cause I think about those times that, um, folks have done that, uh, especially in, Contemporary times, right?

[00:48:57] This is reaching a tipping point. [00:49:00] You know, it was within black surfers, but even in undergrad, when I was at the university of Minnesota, same thing with the black student union when I was treasurer there, well, why is there a black student union? Should there be a white student union? And, you know, these questions continue to persist and now you've got folks that are the role models for millions of Americans saying, you know, diversity, equity, inclusion is racist.

[00:49:27] Right. Uh, that, that, uh, that people are, there's a DEI mayor, right. Uh, that we're lowering the standards for these folks. Um, instead of seeing that there's these fast systemic issues and these people are also, you are, let's actually make sure we're intentional about this instead of letting our own biases create an environment that continues to exclude these folks.

[00:49:49] So absolutely. I've experienced that with black surfers. I think that was. I realized that at the time when I first started it, but it was always going to kind of be part of the dynamic, which is that [00:50:00] it's like Newt's laws, physics, right? For every, uh, horse, it'll be an equal and opposite reaction. And, um, that's not exactly the quote, but you know what I'm talking about.

[00:50:10] Absolutely. That's been the situation. Um, we have to push back against this. At the end of the day, you know, the folks that are saying it's racist that we should just start from ground zero. It reminds me of, uh, that an awful Mexico, and again, I'm going to push her the quote that says, if you stab me in the back and then you pull out the knife a few inches, you haven't healed the situation, right?

[00:50:38] It's, it's still causing pain, still causing injustice. And. That's not at all leveling the score. You can't say who's stabbed you now and pull it out. So let's all start from ground zero. No, my kidney is ruptured. Right. And that's the same thing for this like entire community is that to ignore that is the ultimate gaslight.

[00:50:59] And, [00:51:00] uh, you know, I think we all have different levels of privilege. I, as a man have privilege in the water, right? It's like, I know probably people are not going to be as. Willing to, you know, push me around, say I was a woman, for example, and we all have different levels of privilege, but at the end of the day, if, if, if there's been this injustice that's been wreaked on a group, you cannot say, well, I'm not doing anything, so we shouldn't start talking about this now.

[00:51:27] I think as a man, we should, and as a people and human, honestly human beings, we should be trying to heal others. So we can all kind of do this together. Right. I think at the end of the day, we all want to do this thing together. Right. And make life better for each and every one of us. And it doesn't start with you worrying the injuries that would happen to other people.

[00:51:47] So yeah, I hear it. I see it. I have to care less because those people to me, You know, I've realized I've tried to be those people. I've tried to convince them they're on their own thing. They're going to ignore my phones. Yeah. [00:52:00] The other day, you can't, if someone is ignoring an iPhone. I can't help you. I'm going to focus on people that are like, I think I do see, I want to focus on people that think, I do see that injury actually.

[00:52:11] I'm glad that you see this. Let's talk about this. Let's work together. Right. So we can get rid of the siphon. So

[00:52:17] kwame: I'm going to quote, um, a friend of mine, Dr. Bishop goes by the name Bishop who quotes bell hooks. So he says, we don't need allies. We need co conspirators.

[00:52:31] kayita: You know, it's

[00:52:32] kwame: one thing to be an ally, but as an ally, you can just go home and you'll be fine, but you have, there's no, there's no loss for you as a co conspirator.

[00:52:39] However, you can experience, you know, a loss as well. So we don't need allies. We need co conspirators. Um, so then using that, then what would you say then to people who, um, who are not black surfers who will say, Oh, you know, I want to help out. I want to join or can I join? But if not, how can I help out?

[00:52:58] What would you say to them? [00:53:00]

[00:53:00] kayita: Yeah, I think there are so many ways to help, uh, black surfers and also all the other organizations Um, and I think uh, this is really good quote from uh, Uh, as former black leader that I had in an organization, I Google actually, um, Cassandra Johnson, she might have said something about, you know, making sure people give their resources, which is not just financial.

[00:53:26] It could be timing, the energy, et cetera. But, um, you know, speaking about the discord community really quickly. You know, it's open to allies, but to your point, and maybe I should say it's open to black surfers and co conspirators, because that's what I think about when I think about not, you still not like right out of the hut.

[00:53:46] Um, because there's a few folks like the executive director of city surf project up in San Francisco, Johnny, he's a co conspirator. This guy is about the, about that action, supporting, figuring out ways to advance the mission, [00:54:00] get the word out there. Bringing other younger black surfers into the group. Um, that's an ally and those people, especially in the attack community, we welcome with open arms because they're going to facilitate that inclusiveness, that sense of belonging, bringing more black surfers into the fold, bringing resources into the fold for other black surfers in the community.

[00:54:19] Um, but for others, it could be as simple as, you know, when I'm sharing messages about policy, you know, making sure you vote for those things. Right. Um, I think. And as I've also gotten older and began to make more money, what became, became clear is that when I'm voting, you know, I am, it's, it's not just a voting, it's a vote and money out of my pocket, right?

[00:54:41] So I need to believe the things that I'm standing up for. There's like, Hey, we want ons or homeless housing. I'm like, yeah, let's do that. And I know that's going to come at a cost, but I am willing to do that. You know, I'm not in that situation. I, you know. That's the, that's the world I see and the world I [00:55:00] want to be a part of.

[00:55:01] So I'm going to do that. So I think a lot of people need to recognize that it's not only just about you or your family, but we're trying to create a world that's better for everyone. And, um, making sure that you vote the way that you're, you're, you're, you're. Of your heart, right? And not necessarily of what's the thing that's going to maximize the money in my pocket.

[00:55:20] We all voted for maximizing what's there in our pocket. I think this will be an even worse spot than what it is today.

[00:55:27] kwame: So, because then that really will be the, I'm taking from you. I don't care what you have. It's I'm taking it from you.

[00:55:35] kayita: Right. I think we're regressing. Dark ages.

[00:55:38] kwame: Exactly. Exactly. Great.

[00:55:41] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Um, how are we on time? Okay, great. So now I'm going to, we're going to start wrapping up a little bit. So going to give you a couple fast fire questions. And then there's one other thing which I wanted, which I'm going to [00:56:00] do, and then give you the opportunity to ask me any questions.

[00:56:03] And, um, Then if you have any messages that you would like to give to our listeners at the end, I'll let you close with that. How's that sound?

[00:56:12] kayita: Sounds perfect. ,

[00:56:14] kwame: fast Fire your questions and you gotta answer these quickly. Favorite post, pre and post service? Uh, surf meal.

[00:56:23] kayita: Pre meal is Cliff Bar peanut butter.

[00:56:25] Banana. Mm-Hmm, . And, uh, sometimes my ENT and then os mul is the biggest burrito I can get my hands on.

[00:56:32] kwame: Everybody, the post is always usually similar in some way, shape, or form.

[00:56:38] kayita: Very efficient. Burritos are the most efficient way to eat them.

[00:56:41] kwame: Yeah, I think that's where the myth of surfers and pizza and burritos came from, because they always see us eating after we surf.

[00:56:52] They never see us eating before, because before it's like, you know, eat like birds, just like a little seed or a sip of water here and there, but afterwards [00:57:00] it's just, give me the left side of the menu, just bring it, just keep it coming, just keep it coming, you know.

[00:57:04] kayita: The left side of the menu. Exactly.

[00:57:08] kwame: Pretty much. Um, so, and you said you're a short boarder, so I'm going to nix that question, but, um, and because I was asking you again, what's your favorite, uh, long boarder, short boarder, you know, it's, it's, it's mixed. Let people go back and forth between it. Um, and if you had the opportunity, if you had the choice to surf perfect, I'd say four to six foot waves.

[00:57:36] But it's winter all the time, or one to three foot waves in the summer, but it's constantly onshore.

[00:57:47] kayita: Uh, definitely the first one. But which winter? Is this, is this winter in Northern California? Is this

[00:57:53] kwame: winter in New York? Good point, good point. Okay. Freedom in the city! Good [00:58:00] point. Okay, let's say New York winter.

[00:58:02] So boots, gloves, 5'4 or 6'5.

[00:58:07] kayita: What was the second option again? Sorry, I'm not rapping.

[00:58:09] kwame: Second option was one to three foot, but it's always blowing, um, um, on short.

[00:58:17] kayita: Oh man, I gotta do New York.

[00:58:18] kwame: Gotta do New York? Okay.

[00:58:20] kayita: I gotta do the New York winter. Yeah. Okay, New York winter. Cloud out. That's interesting. I don't know if you heard.

[00:58:26] kwame: As people ask in the Yeah, all you

[00:58:29] kayita: guys over there are struggling,

[00:58:30] kwame: but yeah. Oh no, it is, it is, it's, the struggle is real. I remember one time it was like 35 degrees and the wind made it feel like it was 10. And I was out there, I surfed, and I got back into my car and I just could not stop shivering. I literally sat in my car and every 11 seconds, I would just uncontrollably start to shake.

[00:58:53] I couldn't even get, I couldn't even drive home. I don't even live that far away. And I couldn't drive home until you

[00:58:59] kayita: know [00:59:00] what though? I realized that, uh, your body, I don't know if this is real or not, but I feel like your body, every time you do that, your body releases, uh, endorphins because your body's like, Oh my God.

[00:59:13] So we survived. So those moments are actually like amazing. Cause afterwards your body's like, we made it, we made it, we made it.

[00:59:22] kwame: So Nigel has this saying, he always says it's like, I'll ask him like, sometimes I hate you paddling out. He's like, nah, I want to, I want to be able to say I surfed, not I survived.

[00:59:33] So I'm good. I'm going to sit, I'm going to sit this one out.

[00:59:37] kayita: We kind of thrived today. Yeah. Um,

[00:59:43] kwame: yeah, it usually throws off people a little bit because they're like, well, okay, but it's cold. It's warm, but it's perfect, but it's not perfect. So which do we choose? Yeah. Yeah. It throws people off a little bit.

[00:59:58] And the final one, [01:00:00] hold on, is something I just started doing, where in one of the few times when I was bored, I, um, I went onto Google and I just randomly typed in, why do surfers, and I looked at the drop down list. And some of these questions are like really hilarious. So I'm sure guests, you know, why do surfers in your opinion?

[01:00:25] Why do surfers, blah, blah, blah. So I'm going to pick a number. If you could pick a number between one, two, three, four, five, six, please.

[01:00:37] kayita: Six, six. My favorite number.

[01:00:40] kwame: Okay. So question number six is why do surfers have bleached blonde hair?

[01:00:46] kayita: I'm just going to stick with the server's answer, you know, for a large subset of surfers, it's because they're, uh, exposed to the sun all the time and allowing the sun to fill our hair slowly.

[01:00:56] So I'll just leave it at

[01:00:57] kwame: that. So, no, I mean, I know, you know, those of [01:01:00] us listening, we know why you're doing it that way. Because yeah, I saw that question. Okay. Loaded question right there. All right. Let's say. Let's just, let's just, let's, let's just, let's not start a fight and let's just save this one and leave it at that.

[01:01:17] Um, the next question, so another one is why are surfers? So for that question, there's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. So if you're gonna pick a number between 1 and 10.

[01:01:30] kayita: Still with 3. 3.

[01:01:33] kwame: 3. Oh, why are surfers so happy?

[01:01:37] kayita: Definitely. Uh, I would say, well, my latest theory is uh, I don't know. Negative IaaS. Negative IaaS.

[01:01:46] kwame: Yes.

[01:01:47] Yeah. Yes.

[01:01:48] kayita: Oh. I think that's a very real thing. Go look it up. Yes, it is. I know you know. I know you know. I'm telling your listeners. Yeah.

[01:01:56] kwame: Actually, actually, our listeners, if [01:02:00] you If they listen to the one that's going to be released later this month, they will understand what you just said because, um, it's and he speaks about it.

[01:02:12] He speaks about negative ions. Um, he, what he runs this organization called surf for them with, um, he works with autistic kids in Puerto Rico and he speaks about the negative ions. So, um, yeah. So if you listen to that episode and now you have it mentioned again on this episode, so, Hey, it's the truth.

[01:02:30] We're not making this stuff up, people. We're not making this stuff up. I'll do the research. Yeah, it's always, it's very funny to me, that's like the list of, um, because, you know, of course you know, but again, our listeners, you know how, how Google works. It basically demonetizes people typing this question, it comes down, so I'm like, who really is sitting down there typing in, why is Surfer so attractive?

[01:02:53] Is this really a thing people want to know? You know, why do you want to know why surfers are so ripped? Oh my God, [01:03:00] who's typing this?

[01:03:03] kayita: It's just really amusing. People always plan it. There's enough questions.

[01:03:09] kwame: There's so many questions we want to know, but these are the questions that you wanted to ask. Okay.

[01:03:14] These are the highest priority questions. These are the highest priority questions about surfers. Um, so however, interestingly enough though, I did type in why are black surfers and why do black surfers. Nothing. There are no questions. I mean, I, I, I don't know what that says yet. I haven't made up my mind as to what exactly that means, but I just found it very interesting that there are no questions.

[01:03:43] Actually reformatted, reformatted, excuse me, my question to say, why do surfers wear black wetsuits? So I was like, Hmm. I'll do it. Like, did you mean? Yeah, exactly. Did you mean by surfers wear black wetsuits? Like, no. Nope. So, um, I may actually change the [01:04:00] VPN and change it to another part of the world and try to try that same question and see what happens.

[01:04:06] kayita: I'll let you know what happens. Yeah. I'll have to add it to my five year vision where it's like, and that question in Google, now it's populated.

[01:04:15] kwame: Exactly. So anyway, um, okay. So at the point now where if you have any, any questions that to ask me, then please feel free. Um, You know, I know like a lot of times people ask us, ask me a kind of question and, you know, myself and Nigel, they ask us all kind of interesting questions on anything from why did we start the podcast to basically, I don't know, I've had some person just like throw back the fast fire questions right back at me.

[01:04:44] So anything you want to know, please feel free.

[01:04:49] kayita: Well, I think one thing I'd be curious about, I'll give you the context after is with the WeSurf podcast. What kind of impact are y'all trying to see in the next one to five years? Because [01:05:00] obviously I've looked up the tribe of Zan and that tie into adventure and how you would do a space across, not even necessarily just surfing, but other things, so I'm curious for the WeSurf podcast, I'm throwing it back to you, the five year question, like.

[01:05:15] You hope would be the impact because of this podcast.

[01:05:19] kwame: Uh, I would like to see and Nigel and I actually spoke about this in the beginning and we constantly talk about this um We would like to see I mean, okay, I Specifically would like to see a point where you know One people are actually contacting us and saying hey, we have a story to tell we would like to We would like to be on the podcast to be able to tell this story because a I think everyone has their own story to tell um Even people who come from similar backgrounds come from different backgrounds.

[01:05:49] So, you know, I would love to have as many people as possible Just be able to tell their to tell their story and just you know Additionally really keep along with the mission of giving folks [01:06:00] a voice Until we get to a point where it's no longer needed So I guess in a roundabout way, I would like us to no longer be needed anymore I would like to be at a point where it is not an anomaly You To see, you know, a person with a person with locks paddling out into the water and, you know, having to be like, oh, okay, you know, um, okay, there's this guy in the water.

[01:06:26] This is going to water this person in the water. I would love for that to be at that point. Um, I would love for, you know, LGBTQ folks to be out in the water and say, Hey, I'm completely fine being out here. You know, I have, I know people who say, Hey, I paddle out in the water and I do not feel safe because I look.

[01:06:42] a certain way. Um, so ideally I would love to not be needed anymore to not have to get people's stories across anymore because it's now become the norm or commonplace to see things like this, at least within the continental U S [01:07:00] because, you know, you go to a different part of the world. If I go to Jamaica, I go to Africa, I go to Morocco, you know, different parts.

[01:07:07] I'm, I'm pretty much just one of many there, but yet I, but I paddle out somewhere else and it's like, Oh. Okay. Do you think he can surf? Okay. Let's, let's, let's, okay. Let's just watch him. I can, you can feel people looking at you and then you start to think to yourself, don't mess up. Don't mess up. Don't mess up.

[01:07:26] kayita: Yeah. I really

[01:07:28] kwame: would love for him to be exactly that first wave is crucial. I remember I've been in situations like that before where, you know, I go for a wave and I'm thinking to myself. Do not mess up, do not mess up. You're representing the, you're representing a culture here. Do not mess up. Everybody in that moment, I love that.

[01:07:46] First laugh. Exactly, exactly. So, um, but yeah, I would love for this not to be, not to be needed anymore. And to really just give people. A place like if they want to come and just just talk then yeah, just come [01:08:00] around and just talk tell your story But in the long run to be able to say hey our job is done move on and you know It's now the mainstream.

[01:08:09] It really is the mainstream

[01:08:12] kayita: Yeah, I see that.

[01:08:16] kwame: Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's a very interesting, it's a very interesting time right now to be where we are. But, um, anyway, I can stay on this and just talk to you for like another hour or so while I'm trying to respect your time. Do you have any other questions?

[01:08:35] kayita: Um, honestly, no, I think, I'm just, I'm thinking about who I would want to point to you after this. I'm like, uh, you gonna talk to them?

[01:08:44] kwame: Oh, please, absolutely. You know, there's so many people I have on my list that I'm just gonna try to reach out to them and say, Hey, you know, we'd love to have you on, on the show just to, um, just to this, just to basically, You know, tell your story, talk story, spin a yarn, let's just [01:09:00] have a conversation and let people know what that you're out there and, you know, what you do, because I feel a lot of people like, um, like, you know, yourself, uh, black not surfers, um, worldwide, Nate, um, the black surface collector, black surface association, black surface crew, people with uh, In those communities know what they do and but it's the people outside of the community who are quite like I'd still surprise like, oh, I didn't know.

[01:09:28] I mean, we still get it. Oh, really? You know, I didn't know you surf. You can surf. We still get that. So, um, yeah. So if anyone you can point towards, you can point us towards and please and You know, I am going to post this in the discord chat so everyone can see this. So, um, but yeah, it was, it was a pleasure.

[01:09:46] It really was a pleasure and an honor to speak with you. Thank you so much for joining us.

[01:09:51] kayita: No, same here. Thanks for coming and acknowledging the discord. Please keep doing that. Cause a lot of people, a lot of people will respond, but a lot of people will read [01:10:00]it and benefit from everything that's going on.

[01:10:02] Not everybody's confident to speak in front of hundreds of people. It's really perceived to be hundreds of people, but

[01:10:10] kwame: Thank you. My pleasure. Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, this is it. We are going to sign off now. So have a great day, evening, night, morning, whenever you're listening to this and we will see you next time.

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