Keep it Clean with Ken Lewis

[00:00:38] Tyler: [00:01:00] Hello and welcome to the Swell Season Surf Podcast. I'm your host, Tyler Brewer, and I've got a special guest host joining me today. He is a former guest on Swell Season and someone I would describe as a mensch. He's also an incredibly skilled board builder. And we just got to welcome back our friend, Paul Colbert to the show.

[00:01:50] Hello. Hello. Hello. Thanks for having me, dude. It's been a while since I've had like a co host. So it's kind of nice.

[00:01:56] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: I'm so happy to be your co host. This is super fun. So lovely.

[00:01:59] Tyler: We're just [00:02:00] like two six foot three plus dudes like barely fitting in the screen here, by the way. We're very wide, broad shoulder.

[00:02:08] Yeah. Now, I'm Our guest for this episode is a person that, uh, many of you on the internet may have heard of, or seen, or, or have checked out on Instagram. If you're a core surfer, you've probably heard of this guy. His name is Ken Lewis, and you might be more familiar with his Instagram handle at Hanger18.

[00:02:30] Ken Lewis has been described as a pillar in the San Diego surf, skate, and music community, and an all around good human. He was the son of a La Jolla Cove spear fisherman. He's a father and he has deep roots in his community. He's a former skate shop owner, a Tavarua boatman, a 30 year industry veteran, a freelance writer and digital creator with some new projects on the horizon.

[00:02:56] And I don't. I don't think you can find many [00:03:00] more well loved people in surfing than Ken. It seems like everyone just sings his praise and just loves him. And everyone I've talked to, they just gush. They're just like, Ken, oh my God, he's the best. So just super stoked. And, and, oh, one last thing. He is one of the most well known collectors and brokers of skip fry surfboards.

[00:03:20] And so we're just, So freaking stoked to have Ken on the show. Uh, it's been, been a few years where I've wanted to have him on. And finally, Paul here was like, yo, you should get Ken on. I'm like. Alright, he's like, I'm texting Ken right now. And next thing you know, here we are. So Ken, welcome to Swell Season.

[00:03:37] Welcome

[00:03:38] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: that was far too kind of an intro. Thank you guys.

[00:03:42] Tyler: Well, it's well deserved. Everyone seems to, to love you. And you know, and it's like, you've, you've positioned yourself in a way that's, In such a way where everyone like just speaks very highly and goes through you in some way or if they need A connection you're like that guy. You're [00:04:00] you're the guy almost I think

[00:04:02] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: and I would add to that when When that does happen, whatever that connection is Always says, a friend of Ken's is a friend of mine.

[00:04:10] Aww.

[00:04:11] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. You know what? I appreciate that. Cause it's, uh, growing up, um, you know, when you're not the guy, right, you're around the guys and I was never the guy in anything. I was always just like mediocre at best at most things. But I always wanted to be around people that were better than me, uh, just to learn from to have mentors and just the people that were positioned in the right places and doing the right things.

[00:04:32] I wanted to learn from them. Cause you know, being a latchkey kid in the eighties, your dad's not home, right? Broken home type stuff. You really try to find people to help guide you. And so for me, I got really lucky falling into working at Winn N Sea Beach and surf with Bert Huffman at 16 and Skip Fry Shipping next door and Joe Roper's hanging out on the block.

[00:04:53] And it's like, you know, right away you have some pretty gnarly mentors. And as a kid that that's who [00:05:00] you looked at to be like, okay, this is what's right. Or that's what's how you do things. And, you know, I think from that early age, I was pretty lucky to like, Be pretty far down on the pecking order to be very humble about it.

[00:05:10] And just know that I was lucky to be around it. And so like, I've always kind of thought that, you

[00:05:15] Tyler: how did that come about with Bird, like, get, getting to work at the shop? I imagine, like, there would be lots of Groms, like, clamoring to get a job at the shop.

[00:05:24] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. So, um, he had his original shop up in La Jolla on Nautilus street, like right up from Windensee. And, uh, as a little kid, like seventh grade, eighth grade, that was like a shop that I'd go into. Cause my dad lived around the corner and, um, you know, it was intimidating. It was older guys, really good surfers.

[00:05:40] I was just a shit kid in the shore break. And, you know, you had to tread pretty lightly. Like, you know, Burr was Younger and like fiery, so I didn't even hang out much. Like you'd go in and you felt the vibe of like, I wanna get in and get out. And, um, a few years later, he opened a shop in Pacific beach where I was from.

[00:05:57] And that shop in PB had just opened. I was in like [00:06:00] 10th grade or whatever that, whenever you're 16.

[00:06:03] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:06:03] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: And I was walking down the street and I'd seen the shop and like one of the gnarly, like local surf guys was sitting in the doorway, like working, sitting there, you know, like, Oh, that guy's fuck, you know, walking.

[00:06:15] And then Skip is walking up with his mask down. He's like, Hey man, have you seen a dog? And I'm like, fuck that's Skip Fry. Like, I know who he is. And I'm like, yeah, actually, there's a dog over here. And we walked to the end of the street and his dog Leroy was like taking a shit on the lawn or something.

[00:06:27] And, um, that's how I met Skip. He's like, all right, Leroy, you don't get back here. And he's like, Hey, thanks. And I was like, wow, skip fry is next door to this new shop. And so then, you know, I started going by there and bird wasn't working there full time. He was still working at the La Jolla shop and that shop was Ernie Higgins.

[00:06:44] Who was Bill Caster's glasser at the Caster surfboard factory. And he had started like island scene surfboards and he just was a legendary kind of glasser. So he was working at the shop with another legendary sander named M. A. And Mike Anderson, who worked for Rusty up until he [00:07:00] passed away a few years ago.

[00:07:01] But, um, you know, here are these gnarly surfboard industry manufacturer guys. And I would just show up every day, like just hanging out. And eventually as you hang out, it's like, well, if you're going to hang out, take out the trash. And it's sweet. Dude,

[00:07:17] Tyler: me to pick up his dog shit.

[00:07:19] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: I wouldn't, I wouldn't. Um, and we did, but it just became like where, for me, when I got out of school, like you went right to the surf shop and it's where all, you know, eventually all the better surfers started, we're hanging out and I just was the one of the guys that ended up sticking out to work there and it was like, I think I made 700 bucks a month or something.

[00:07:39] And, um, yeah, you just wanted to be there because it wasn't so much about, Working, but you were around the right people and you felt like, okay, I'm, I'm not, I don't serve as good as everyone else. I just want to be around those people. So yeah, it just sort of like, I, I, I guess it's sort of like, don't take no as an answer.

[00:07:57] I just kept showing up, you know, no matter what[00:08:00]

[00:08:00] Tyler: you were the kid from Big Wednesday that would like always kind of be lurking around on the side almost.

[00:08:06] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: I think most of us, I don't know how it was for everybody else. I know I was really lucky to be in the right place at the right time and right era, but, um, I think it's almost like anything. If you want something, you're going to find a way to be around it. And it was no matter how much grief people gave you or whatever, you just kept showing up because like, it mattered to you.

[00:08:25] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: Now did that translate for you out in the water as well? Like, oh, there's the, there's a kid who sweeps up the shop. Yup. Yup.

[00:08:32] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: No, no

[00:08:32] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: now, or was there no recognition whatsoever? Now

[00:08:35] Tyler: let's, let's take all his waves.

[00:08:37] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: one gave a shit, dude. It was like, you would sell wax to this guy and you'd have a laugh and you'd be like, right on, man. Good to see you. And you'd paddle out the next day and they would throw rocks at you or they would burn you. And you're like, like, Dave, I know you, like it's me. And it didn't matter. And the next day they'd see like, Hey, what's up, man?

[00:08:54] They're like, fuck you. Like. He was throwing rocks at me. But it was everywhere. It was like, La Jolla [00:09:00] Reefs, PB Point, down at the cliffs, like You weren't given anything, especially if you worked in a shop, no one cared. It lets you were like, and he did, even bird would paddle out and he'd be in these crazy arguments with people.

[00:09:12] And I'm like, what's going on here? And they all knew each other. It still was that way. Then no one gave anyone anything. So it was. Definitely different than now where nobody earns anything and gets all of it. Right. So you were just always down in the totem pole. You had to fight for everything. And it was sort of a toxic era that way, but it's just how it was, you know?

[00:09:33] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: Now we've hit on it a little bit, but I'm actually curious. Uh, you mentioned growing up as a latchkey kid in Pacific Beach in the 80s. Like, do you think First, could you like maybe give us a Average typical day and then also what I'm uh, wondering is do you think being a latchkey kid gave you the freedom?

[00:09:52] To experience things that otherwise maybe if you had a more strict schedule I mean you would have missed out on some pretty cool shit Yeah,

[00:09:59] Tyler: if you were going to [00:10:00] soccer and then swim class and all these other things you wouldn't be able to have that freedom

[00:10:05] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. It's such a weird double edged sword looking back, like having, you know, my dad left for central America around 1980 to go just dive and do his thing. And so it's my mom with my special needs brother and me in a little apartment, And you know, life's not rad when you're sort of like, you don't have that father figure and I would always like be at neighbor's houses with their parents or together and eating with them or putting myself in places of just sort of taking care of myself.

[00:10:30] And as a latchkey kid, you know, you'd come home from elementary school or whatever it was and basically no one's home. Like dad's, like I said, another country. My mom's at work. Um, my brother's five years older, so I didn't really see him much. Um, so yeah, I'd come home and you'd make yourself, you know, like a hot dog and cheese and a tortilla.

[00:10:47] And then it would be like, well, you'd find someone to like ride bikes with or play with. And then eventually as you get into the beach, like boogie board or body surf and then surfing. And, um, that's all I wanted to do. So really it was a [00:11:00] lack of supervision and kind of just general neglect of Gen X, right?

[00:11:04] Um, that allowed me to sort of like, okay, I've got seven hours till my mom gets home. Like I may as well go to the beach or I may as well go to the park. And you were living in the moment. So it was like, if everyone was riding bikes down to wherever you just went and, um, you know, you weren't checking in with anybody.

[00:11:19] I did, I didn't have a schedule and I had terrible grades and there's a lot of stuff, maybe I regret, like, I wish I was better at certain things, but it's just, it's a, how things, I guess it's how your nature and nurture, um, it forced me to be tenacious. It forced me to kind of do things and I didn't realize, you know, having my own shop or dude and all these different things with skate parks or whatever.

[00:11:43] It came from like, why not? If I don't do it, no one's going to do it. I have to do it myself. And that's what I think being a latchkey kid sort of taught you is like, you have to take care of yourself and it's not easy. It's not fun. It's not really what you want to do, but it's like what you were forced to do.

[00:11:57] And it just helps you in life, [00:12:00] um, you know, seize opportunities and maybe like when you see something you want, you really just end up pushing for that. So yeah, I think my average day was just like, figure some shit out. And luckily I found the guys at the surf shop. Um, and that was the structure I didn't have.

[00:12:15] It was like a hierarchy. You didn't mouth off to those dudes. You got to work, you had to keep your mouth shut. You sort of learned your place and that's what I needed, you know,

[00:12:25] Tyler: And you picking up skills, you know, as you're doing it, you know, you're, whether you realize it or not, like you're learning to sell, you're learning to talk to strangers, you learn learning how to do conflict resolution even, and, uh, all sorts of real world life, you know, real world skill sets that a lot of kids don't always get, especially today.

[00:12:44] I find, you know, if they're not working somewhere, you know, particularly like they're not getting that experience. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:51] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: it's so true. Like some of the experiences are, you know, again, that mid to late eighties was the wild west still, it was not quite as [00:13:00]gentrified and things weren't correct. And there was people who would come in to steal stuff and you know, I'm like 17 or whatever, and they would try and steal stuff.

[00:13:07] I'd kind of freak out and be like, Oh, Roper. Hey, like there's some dude, you know, I didn't know what to do. Joe would sit there and we knew the guys got Alex career was kind of a nut job. And. You know, he shoved all the stuff in the dressing room and him and Joe got in a yelling match and you know, Joe leaves and at 40 minutes later, the guy comes back with a knife and he's like ready.

[00:13:24] He's like, where's Joe? And I'm like 17. Like, holy shit. This dude's back with a knife in the shop. There's no one here. And I'm like, what the fuck? Like he's not here, you know, but these are the things that were happening, like consistently like thievery and like fights and crazy shit. And it's like, uh, you, you learn pretty quick, like how to read people, read situations and diffuse things.

[00:13:46] And I think a lot of like, Me being a type B guy, I want to defuse stuff like coming from that broken home. And my whole thing was how do I make my mom happy? Keep the peace. I'm, I'm just a people pleaser type. So [00:14:00] a lot of it is

[00:14:01] Tyler: Guilty as charged.

[00:14:02] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: me, right? Like I'm just trying to like putting out fires or just kind of keep the peace and keep the ball rolling.

[00:14:06] And I think my whole life kind of, then after that was, that's a big part of my characteristics.

[00:14:12] Tyler: conflict at all costs. Yeah.

[00:14:14] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. And it's not always rad. Cause there's like people are like, fuck that guy. But. It's not worth that, you know, and some people,

[00:14:22] Tyler: Like, what are you going to get out of it? Yeah.

[00:14:24] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: never got anything out of it.

[00:14:25] Tyler: what did your mom do? If you don't mind me asking.

[00:14:27] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: She, she was an immigrant. She came from Germany in the sixties.

[00:14:30] Met my dad at the

[00:14:34] Tyler: have a lot in common. My dad's German too, you know, all

[00:14:36] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: gates, bro. Um,

[00:14:38] Tyler: Sie Deutsch.

[00:14:40] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: yeah. And, uh, yeah, so she, she came to California and she was a nanny. She hung out La Jolla Cove and, um, was, you know, a pretty little German girl. My dad was a full stud predator guy. I was like, what's up? Yeah. Like I didn't have an abalone at one of the parties and then it was on.

[00:14:58] Um, but yeah, so [00:15:00] when he left, she was a secretary. So she was a secretary, um, for SAIC, this like local, uh, company. And then, um, that's kind of all she ever did, you know, like 35 grand a year secretary, um, did her best, you know, two kids in apartment, but back then you could kind of pull it for that,

[00:15:15] Tyler: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:16] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: the apartment,

[00:15:17] Tyler: forget about that.

[00:15:18] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: like, I don't even know, yeah, terrible,

[00:15:21] Tyler: Did like, 'cause she had like a real impact on you though too. Like she was like, I was reading about how like really helped inform you on like right and wrong and some moral stuff as well and push you and encourage you in the right direction.

[00:15:36] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: yeah, she was like, you know, she's the empathy part of things, so she was always like. Um, super supportive, like super nurturing, kind of one of those, even though we didn't have a whole lot, it didn't matter because we were all pretty happy in our own little world, right? Um, you don't know what you're missing when you don't have it.

[00:15:51] It's only later in life when you're like, whoa, shit, we were poor? I didn't know that. Like, I didn't, you know what I mean? You don't get it. You're like, oh, I was just living. And she was always [00:16:00] like super supportive. You know, maybe sometimes to a detriment of like, you know, just would let, like, I wouldn't bring the books home to study and she didn't ever care.

[00:16:09] And there was like, SATs coming up and she didn't care that I didn't do them. And when I wasn't going to go to college, it was like, cool. Like choose your path. And it was like, I don't know what my path is, man. I got no guidance, but, um, in a way looking back on it, it was like, she, no matter what I did, she was going to support it.

[00:16:25] So that was, that was kind of the gift from her. Like, go do your thing, you know? So, yeah.

[00:16:31] Tyler: How, how then like. Sorry, we're getting, we're putting you on the couch here, but I'm curious then, like, how, like, you know, your dad then, like, and that influence, because on one hand, I imagine he was somewhat respected in the community or had, you know, uh, at a certain point because, you know, you're fishing and seems like someone who's of, of the water in that sense, but like, how did she manage that, I guess?

[00:16:59] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: [00:17:00] yeah, he was more like an anti hero type. Like, uh, he is very, him and Pat Curran were dive buddies. Right. So they were almost the same type of

[00:17:07] Tyler: Oh, that makes sense. Yeah.

[00:17:09] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: And that's all I got to say. Right. When you know who Pat Curran is, you're like, Oh, like tough. It's tough, but a legend. So you're like, if I had to break it down, I'm like, yeah, like his legend is like amazing.

[00:17:21] He did some crazy stuff. He caught some of the biggest fish. He was legendary as a father. It wasn't so rad. And me and Joe, I've had some of these conversations of like, you know, sort of therapy amongst ourselves of just like, yeah, it's, it's tough having that guy as your dad, um, where the shadow's huge, but he wasn't, he wasn't around a lot to do a lot of the dad stuff.

[00:17:40] Like, I don't remember playing catch with my dad ever. Like

[00:17:43] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: Well, that's a sacrifice, right? It's like to do things that make you legendary, like of folklore status, you got to neglect other things in your life in order to do that, right? And so it's like, I feel like that's probably the case for a lot of people who are considered legends

[00:17:58] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: You're right.

[00:17:58] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: been some neglect [00:18:00] in, in other areas of their life that other people are just like, hold on a minute, like,

[00:18:05] Tyler: do you think like, like squaring that in your head?

[00:18:09] Because everyone would probably tell you stories about your dad or would, would put him on a certain pedestal. But then you're like, wait, but this isn't how my experience is. And I imagine as a kid, that's really hard to kind of understand and, uh, and kind of rationalize.

[00:18:27] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. You know, it's a big shadow. And like I said, he was around till I was eight, that he was gone for five years in central America and Belize. And then when he came home, he would live in Riverside working for the company he had worked for before roar, which is based in San Diego and up there. But, um, I wouldn't see him like I'd see him, you know, a week, a year.

[00:18:45] And he was just, you know, whatever, 80 miles North or something. So it just was like a tough, like he wasn't being a dick on purpose. It just, he had his life and he lived his way. And I would, you know, I tuck into it occasionally. And, uh, you know, when you see people with, [00:19:00] for me, the most foreign thing in the world is like happily married couples.

[00:19:03] It's shocking. I'm like, what you're nurturing, they're together. And it doesn't make sense to me. Cause it's just like, Whoa, like it's, it's so different than how I grew up. Um, but it was still loving, like, you know, he, he gave me the love for the ocean. Early on. It was like, that's my, you know, that's like the nursery.

[00:19:21] It was like, we'd go to La Jolla Cove, you'd die for four hours and he'd be like, there's the lifeguard. Here's your stuff, like see you in a bit. And it was like, you just dug a hole, went snorkeling. Like you kind of, again, it's a really free way to grow up. Like you just were doing it, you know? And now it's like, I got to shush my kid out, out of the house.

[00:19:41] You know, like, Hey, go do something like in real life. Absolutely.

[00:19:47] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio:themselves on the beach. They'll call you. I mean, other parents,

[00:19:52] Tyler: neighbors will call the cops on you if you just let your kid play in the park across the street, you know,

[00:19:57] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Like, I think [00:20:00] overparent. And that's where a lot of us, you know, we have the kids that are totally different than who we are, because it was like, man, like, I don't want you being Out in the streets for 10 hours by yourselves with no phone. And

[00:20:09] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: Right.

[00:20:11] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: yeah, I don't know what, what was better or not. I don't know. We'll see.

[00:20:16] Tyler: my wife and I, we don't have kids, but we have kittens. And I'm like of the mindset that they're fine. Don't worry about it. You know? And I'm like, if we had kids, like it would be a real problem because it would be like, yeah. Dude, I was left alone for hours and hours, you know, and I made my own dinner and I walked and went to random places and sketchy things, uh, but I was fine.

[00:20:39] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a big part of like society, right? It's like, uh, you grew up a certain way and a lot of people aren't open to how other people grew up. And so then it's like, uh, you know, when you hear people like you should just do this and you're like, what's good for you isn't good for me and like, yeah.

[00:20:54] Raising a kid, like everyone's got that different thing of what should be done. And I think it [00:21:00] trickles over into like from politics to whatever, it's just like, Oh, everybody wants you to be like them, but they're not trying to like, see who you are.

[00:21:05] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: Well, everybody's situation is unique anyways, right? It's like,

[00:21:09] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Well, that's kind of what's neat is like how we all find each other, like through social media these days and surfing.

[00:21:15] So we have these shared passions and then it's like you, you start, you know, narrowing it down to like even more minute things that you have in common of certain surfboards or fins or belief systems or just waves, or I don't know, it's silly, but it's kind of rad. It's like, you find some really cool people.

[00:21:32] These days through social media and through the internet and all

[00:21:35] Tyler: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It's incredible. Like the, you know, like I found this whole group of people who are sharing, you know, who are digitizing surf VHSs, you know, and we're like sharing them, sending links, like sending hard drives.

[00:21:50] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: want to get in on

[00:21:51] Tyler: Oh, I'll get you. Ricky Tartington, man. Uh, he like emailed me the other day.

[00:21:56] He's like, I have a huge favor to ask. Do you have the cover [00:22:00] artwork for Sarge's Surfing Scrapbook season episode one and two? And I was like, Got it. And then he's like, why is it cut off on the end? I'm like, because that's the way it came, you know, it's like hilarious, but it's like, you find these niche things to connect with people on, which is, I don't know, it makes me slightly hopeful of humanity sometimes.

[00:22:21] Yeah.

[00:22:22] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: I mean, that's how a lot of us met. Like it really was like, uh, and I don't know, like how we and Paul or anyone met, it just sort of starts off with like, Oh, I saw a picture on Instagram and a comment and then, Hey, what's up. And then, Hey, I

[00:22:34] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: with caddy shack quotes.

[00:22:36] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: think you're right. I think you're right. And again, more

[00:22:40] Tyler: no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:22:44] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: that wouldn't fly today. But. Like those movies, man. Like those quotes.

[00:22:50] Tyler: I, I imagine then like you were, like you said, like you had these, these other father like figures then with like bird and skip and like,

[00:22:59] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: [00:23:00] Yeah.

[00:23:00] Tyler: did those relationships develop over time then like how did skip in your relationship kind of developed to the point now where like, You're almost like the gatekeeper for a lot of, a lot of skip stuff, you know, not, not totally, but you know, but like, yeah,

[00:23:15] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: That's always a weird one. Cause you know, skip every like so many people know skip and everyone has their own personal thing with skip. Right. So I don't really feel like I'm special in that way at all. It's, um, you know, just being around for so long and knowing somebody and like you build that organic, like just.

[00:23:30] All right. Like I know who you are over time and, um, you know, maybe a ton of surf boards and, you know, we've had some great conversations about life and things. And, uh, but I think he has that with hundreds of people. I really do. Like he's a real special guy to where, you know, like if he tells me a story with the same excitement and you were to walk in, he'd go, Oh, and he would tell you the exact same story in the same way and you're like, holy shit.

[00:23:50] Like everyone gets the same kind of version of skip really. That's what's kind of really cool about it. But yeah, that, that relationship, you know, from when I was 16 until now, it just [00:24:00]was, uh, you know, we don't hang out or nothing. It's just every now and again, we see each other at the surf shop or shaping room or.

[00:24:06] He calls about a sporting event that's on and he wants to watch the game on the phone with you. And there's a lot of people that kind of have those experiences. So that was kind of a neat one. The bird one was more of, um, that's where, you know, working in the shop with him and learning that trade and then having my own skate shop later.

[00:24:22] And, you know, now I've worked with them again. Filming his videos and stuff for social media. It's just a long, like, you know, it's family type stuff at this point. Like with Roper hitting bird, it's, it's just very much like family dysfunction or not, or good or bad. It's, it's sort of, sort of like that.

[00:24:37] Tyler: Did you feel like they, they were over time protective of you at all? Like, I would, I would like sometimes like I would, I would fantasize in my head as a Grom, even I would hang out with our, our local legends and I'd be like, yeah, something ever happened. They would have my back. Right. You know, like I would imagine this fantasy almost in my head.

[00:24:59] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: I don't [00:25:00] know. I mean, uh, I've gone through so much stuff and there's been different eras. There was like things that made me get out of surfing completely and getting into skateboarding and not even having a surfboard really for years. Um, You know, there's, there's certain things you go through where you feel like, no, no, one's got your back and it didn't matter, you know, what you were going through, like, um, those things are, yeah, I wish I could say differently, but it really is sort of like you're on your own and these people, they, they dip in your life at peak moments when you need them.

[00:25:27] And, uh, yeah, if you're in a, in a bad stretch, I could always call Skip and Donna or Bird and like have a conversation, but there was like times when you couldn't, you know, like I've been through divorce and that kind of messes things up for a little bit. And then, you know, just in life, you get in these different phases where you don't.

[00:25:41] You know, if I'm not at the beach for five years, I don't see or hear from anybody So it was um, yeah, I don't think anyone's really ever protective of me but I think now like these friendships are forged in a different way to where it is like family like I have a real love for those guys all of them and I think I feel that back and um, you know that just [00:26:00] sort of comes with you know, 35 years of track record of And you don't make the right decision every time, but it's always like, if you fuck up, you apologize.

[00:26:09] If you do the right thing, it's celebrated. Yeah. So it's, it's just, it's probably the healthiest relationships I've had. And I don't know if they're that healthy, but they're the ones that have lasted the longest in my whole life.

[00:26:19] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: Right.

[00:26:20] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: yeah, I didn't have that with my own father. He died when I was like 20.

[00:26:23] So. I didn't have that long term stuff, you know, I never knew my grandparents. I, it's really a weird thing for me. My whole family is sort of these people I've met along the way.

[00:26:32] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: Can, can you tell us a little bit about what you're doing now with the surfboard rack and how all these friendships from over the years are maybe contributing to that as well?

[00:26:43] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. It was sort of, um, as I got through, like, I'm a recovering marketing director, right? Like after my last marketing director job, like I just didn't, I just didn't want to do it anymore. It's just so much work to like go to make events and partnerships and money, this money, that [00:27:00] dude, I mean,

[00:27:01] Paul: Sucks.

[00:27:02] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: anytime you're doing something for the skate mag, we had to like sell it against like, okay, 20 grand sponsorship to monster or whoever.

[00:27:07] And you couldn't do the things you want it to do unless you got the money coming in and after a while, you just, you sort of age out of it. Like, I don't want to stay out late. I don't want to go to the parties. I don't want to do the thing. And so when that kind of. Dried up for me. Um, I was in a weird spot cause I don't have a degree, so I couldn't get another marketing job outside of the industry cause I don't have degrees.

[00:27:26] And I sort of had to recreate myself. That's how I got into content writing. Really. It was, um, I got a job writing for a local, like newspaper for like 200 bucks a month, like that was all I had. And it was like, okay, I have 200 and I would do yard work, um, for my buddy, DR and like make 50 bucks a day. I was really scraping for a minute there.

[00:27:44] Like, I didn't know what was going to happen with me. And, um, as the writing started developing a little bit, I was taking photos and making videos and doing social media. And, you know, as that kind of got to be, that's the media now I was positioned pretty good to help people like bird go, Hey, let me help [00:28:00] you make your videos, write your text, write your copy, help you with the website.

[00:28:03] So I was staying like on that. On the edge of like what people were needing for technology. And, um, now, so like I have freelance clients that I make their videos for, do their social media. Uh, but the surfboard rack, it got to be like, you know what, like here I am still like scraping together. So after my health stuff, real, real quick rewind, I had a health issue.

[00:28:25] After that, I had to like totally change my perception of what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. Cause I thought maybe I was going to die or be paralyzed or whatever. So after I got past that, I'm like, do I want to waste my time chasing a hundred grand a year at some job I don't want to do, sitting at a desk all day, maybe getting sick again.

[00:28:41] So I was like, no, I'd rather make less, but be around more. Yeah. So with that in mind is when I was like I could do the surfboard rack for my house Do basically like a shop, how I'd want to shop for me, which isn't based on like all these other surf shops. Everyone's got it figured out, man. Like retail is dialed.

[00:28:57] I wanted a place where I could do my creative writing, [00:29:00] have videos, do interviews with people, offer really killer surfboards or unique boards, art, whatever photos that you've never seen before. And it's super niche and niche, but it's like, I don't need it to do much, you know? So for me, it's more of a passion project for people like me that sort of are looking for something different.

[00:29:18] And that's what I, that was the intent, was to do something creative and interesting that you don't see everywhere.

[00:29:23] Tyler: Well, it feels like being niche is actually the way to go in today's world. Like you, it's, it's impossible almost to be mass anymore. You know, it's, and, and the beauty of social media is it allows you to find. a niche audience that can support you, you know, and that's that's almost like how I feel like the surf industry is kind of going in that way where it's almost like you've got local brands instead and you've got it it's much more fragmented I guess or sub subculture instead of One monolith surf culture that we grew up in.

[00:29:57] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Right. It is different. For me, [00:30:00] it got to be, you know, what do I know? Like, I don't know everything anymore. I don't know what the hot kids are anymore. Like, I know what I know. And it's a cool sense of history, where we've come from. I know what's going on now currently, but my, my passion is more of that education, authenticity, this is what I know and I could deliver that.

[00:30:18] And that's all I, I really can. All the other stuff. I really feel like there's so much marketing bullshit and people with contrived messages that are so manufactured to invoke a reaction. It's just such garbage. Like fucking, let me tell you, like, this is what's real. This is what I got. And if you like it, you like it.

[00:30:35] And if you don't, you don't. And that's okay. Okay. But that's, that's what I wanted was more like that ain't going to be for everybody, but I want it to be for the people like me and I think there's people like me. I hope, I don't know, but we'll

[00:30:47] Tyler: There's a lot of us out there, I think, who are, you know, who share that, that type of, um, appreciation, uh, for surf culture, surf history, skate culture as [00:31:00] well, and skate history. And, you know, we're, you know, there's a lot of us who are older who are into it, but there's also some younger people who are discovering that too, and making it interesting to them as well.

[00:31:11] It's part of what you're doing, I think.

[00:31:14] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: I think it's really fun. Like again, Not being a main guy, right. Being around these guys, I observed a lot. I paid attention and I wanted to know more and I listened to the stories and I asked the questions. And that's like a lot of stuff, you know, maybe people don't do when they're maybe more of the focus of being a pro surfer or running a company.

[00:31:35] So for me, I soaked a lot of that in and it's really fun to tell those stories from like a firsthand perspective. Um, and you know, that's, there's a lot of revisions history from a lot of different people. One. To be able to go like, no, I was there and that's not correct. Like, this is kind of how it was. I like to kind of get that out more and more.

[00:31:53] And so a lot of what I'm doing too with the digital side is like a, I don't want to do a podcast cause I think people do really good jobs at those. [00:32:00] I want to do

[00:32:00] Tyler: Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that.

[00:32:06] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: They were good. Um, I want to do shorter ones that I call chapters where I sit with a person and talk about a chapter in their life.

[00:32:12] And you know, we can always come back another time, tell another chapter, but it's really more like 20 minute. Like, let me ask you about, you know, if it was Paul, I'd be asking, how'd you get into shaping surfboards? And we can just talk about that. And that's, that's interesting for me is like, A lot of people have these questions about how did birds start collecting or how did skip get into shaping and to be able to tell like a little chapter about that would be fun, you know,

[00:32:33] Tyler: I like that. That's a great idea. Yeah. I think that's super needed too. You know, like, I feel like there's, there is so much revisionist history out there and it's hard to get ahold of the actual truth of something, you know? It's really difficult, uh, more and more because It's become a game of telephone with history too and a lot of it wasn't fully [00:33:00] documented.

[00:33:00] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: right. And a lot of those guys, like, you know, legends are all, they're going quickly now. And, uh, to be able to go like, all right, you're around certain parts of it. And to be able to tell that is important. Like, that's what I saw, how it went down and everybody's maybe got their guy, you know, some people have Donald or some people have skip or Dale or whoever.

[00:33:17] But I do think it's important, like, if you know it, and it's the truth, and it's one person removed, like, write it down and share it. Because there's other people who, like, implement themselves in history sometimes, and you're like, that's not how it was at all.

[00:33:28] Tyler: It's

[00:33:30] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: there to dispute it.

[00:33:30] Tyler: Joel Tudor. No, sorry.

[00:33:33] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: That's debatable.

[00:33:38] Tyler: Um, you mentioned before, like you, you kind of fell out of love with surfing at some points and I was curious, like when that happened and why.

[00:33:49] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: So, that one's, it's sort a deep cut. It's um, I think when I went to Tavaroa in 95, I was working for Rusty at the time, which is ironic. I'm working for him now. [00:34:00] Um, but he had a guy working for me, Peter Johnson, who was not the best dude. And when I left on that trip, you know, I was supposed to come back and work for Rusty when I got back.

[00:34:09] And I was like, New in the marketing department and I went on my trip and I got really sick. I almost died in Fiji. I had some crazy, like a neurology type thing going on. And when I came back, I was messed up for a while, like weeks and weeks, like just, I couldn't walk. I was in the hospital for weeks. So when I finally kind of was able to function, I remember going into Rusty's and just was like, Hey Peter, like, you know, I'm back.

[00:34:29] I'd love to maybe start work soon. I've been, you know, out of work now for five months, you know? And he goes, I don't know what you're talking about. I'm like, well, he said, even I'd have a job when I got back. He's like, no, I said, I'd consider you for a position, but there's nothing here. And I was like, holy shit.

[00:34:43] Like, okay. So then I filed for unemployment cause I didn't know what else to do. And he disputed my unemployment and I was like, Whoa, dude, you know, whatever it was, 180 bucks. It was nothing.

[00:34:53] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:34:53] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: I remember calling him and he like was such a bully and I was like, super disenfranchised. Like, I'm like, Whoa, [00:35:00] dude, I just wanted the best.

[00:35:01] Thing I could have ever done in my life, like surfing as good as I could surf best ways with nobody around to now have no money, no job. They basically like shoved me out kind of thing. Rusty, I don't, for, to be fair, I don't think he knew about it. I think he just was doing his thing. And then, um, even stuff, I think they were seeing something bird.

[00:35:17] I, I don't know. There's something weird with him, but I remember the going, like felt like sort of a trade, like, Oh man, like these people I thought had my back down and I didn't know what to do. And I got a job in a skate shop. My friend, Pablo at soul ground, his daughter, Jen Smith is a longboard champ,

[00:35:31] Tyler: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:35:32] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: I worked for Pablo and she was just a little kid.

[00:35:34] She was like 10. So I worked in the skate shop and it was awesome. I was like, well, it's, it's all the retail stuff I had done, but skateboarding and, you know, in the mid nineties, skating was awesome. And

[00:35:45] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: Well, what an iconic shop too. So

[00:35:47] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: it was a cool little shop and, uh, you know, we worked together for about a year and a half. And then I was like, you know what?

[00:35:53] I'm going to do my own shop. Cause I, I really found a nice dude. It felt like home. Like every skateboarder was so super welcoming. [00:36:00] The industry was really small and exciting. Like surfing was 10 years before. And so when I had my skate shop, it was the same kind of feelings I had in the surf shop back in the day.

[00:36:08] Like we're, we're doing this unique, special thing. And there's PD Pacific drive. There was a street machine, my shop and a couple others. And, uh, you know, help build a skate park under a bridge. That's still there in the Washington street park. We did cool stuff. And, uh, to me, it felt really good. And at that point, I don't think I surfed in like probably for four years.

[00:36:29] I had one fry on the side of my house. getting sunbaked and I didn't, I didn't go to the beach anymore. I just was like kind of over it. And, um, it probably was great for me because when I finally did start surfing, an old surf buddy who worked at a skate brand was like, Hey, let's go surfing. And so we went to mission beach and I caught a couple of waves.

[00:36:46] I'm like, fuck, I love surfing. I hate the surf industry. And so for me, that was like, I had to really realize the separation of what that industry is. Versus writing a surfboard and going surfing [00:37:00] is absolutely not connected. And I fell back in love with surfing after that. And I never really wanted another surf industry job.

[00:37:07] And so all the stuff I do around it is very like toe in. Yeah. Like I like to freelance. I liked like with Rusty, I've always liked him and it's fun to like tell some stories and reeducate people on the history of cool brands. So that's fun for me, but, uh, anything more, I kind of, I'll stop myself.

[00:37:25] Tyler: It's funny. Like I, I, you know, I grew up, my dad owns one of the oldest surf shops in New York. I grew up in the industry and, you know, and then like, you know,

[00:37:34] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Watch up,

[00:37:35] Tyler: Uh, sundown. It used to be called Emilio's, but, uh, back in the sixties and then it turned into sundown and we carried rusty for a little while in the nineties when I had a couple of Rusty's in the time.

[00:37:46] Uh, probably when you, yeah, around that time, but it was, The closer I got to the surf industry, the, the, the more unhappy I became, the less excited I was about [00:38:00] surfing. And then we were doing the surf film festival and all this shit went down with that. Like it went, it was just like, Oh, I don't want to make surfing my life or my, my living.

[00:38:09] I want to just surf. For enjoyment and there's something nice about looking inwards on surfing and even looking inwards on the surf industry And not being a part of it. I think yes, that's like a healthy relationship to me and there's so many unhealthy people in the surf industry who Toxify it so heavily and it's much better to just be on the outside looking in I think

[00:38:32] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. It might sound weird for a lot of people who, who've always wanted that or maybe see it from the outside, like, wow, it looks like a big party and it's so fun. But when you find, when you do look behind the curtain and you, you see it all, it's, it's not that great. It's, it's still a job. It, like you said, toxic people, toxic environments, and, um, you're taking the thing you probably love the most that makes you who you are and it's turned into this commodity that

[00:38:56] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: Turning it into work.

[00:38:58] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: yeah, and I don't know, man, it [00:39:00]just got to be for me like that, wasn't it like.

[00:39:02] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: Yeah.

[00:39:03] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: The people that are those industry guys for 40, 50 years, there's some good people there for sure, but, um, you have to be built that way. And for me, I'm not, man. I'm at, like I said, we talked earlier about my mom. I I'm an empath. I care too much. I take a lot of things on that, you know, stress me out when things matter to you.

[00:39:20] And, um, there's a lot of people who don't care that way. You know, it's just a job and it's just a number. And for me, I love surfing more than that. So it's a lot more fun to be able to. Surf what you want, how you want, where you want, when you want, and enjoy it for what it is, then all that other bro stuff, you know.

[00:39:37] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: So, I find it interesting that, um, you came back to surfing in that way and had that healthy separation between surfing and the surf industry, yet at the same time, you continued a career in the skateboarding industry with the mag and your marketing job. What is different about the skateboarding industry that allowed you to do that for so long?

[00:39:59] Tyler: Or [00:40:00] skate culture in general, even, I think.

[00:40:02] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Well, you know, the funny part in it, unfortunately that all changed as well. Right? Like it's all the same path as surf industry did. And you can see right now skateboarding is like in shambles. Like there's no endemic shoe brands, really like all these main sponsors or energy drinks or Nike. The time that it was small, fuck, it was rad.

[00:40:20] It was like, Again, it was everybody scrambling to create a company. Young people were involved. It wasn't about money. It was just about, we're doing this thing. And then as it evolved, it really turned into bigger paychecks, organized contests, right, with street league and all these things. And it, it just sort of took it just like surfing and changed it.

[00:40:39] And the cool part of skating is it's still rad young people. They're colorblind. It doesn't matter who you are, what you look like, gay, straight, like everyone's sort of welcome. And that's what I loved about skateboarding where I feel like surfing is almost the polar opposite. It's really, it's a good old boys club and it's not really that friendly to outsiders.

[00:40:58] And, uh, for me, that's what I loved about [00:41:00] skating still do. Like when I watched skateboarding, I'm like, man, like it's progressing. It's kids of every age and color. It's, it's awesome for me, but I did get out of skating too. It was the same thing that the point in the industry where you're like, man, like it's back to now a commodity and a paycheck and a job.

[00:41:17] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: 15 years or so behind.

[00:41:19] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. And there's like people working at the mag that were like, you know, middle aged women that didn't care there. It's just a paycheck. And because they had a background in advertising, they're calling shots. And you're like, it works because we were skateboarders speaking the same language and we all kind of understood it.

[00:41:34] And once it got to be like people who are there for the money, They have these degrees and they wanted to run it as a business. It just ruined it. And yeah, it made it profitable. They could sell it. People made money. But for, for us in it, it just, it all disappeared again. So, yeah, it's always been a, you know, what is that, like Tommy boy where he's got the little muffin and he goes, I love you.

[00:41:54] Shares it apart,

[00:41:57] Tyler: My little pretty bubble. I'm gonna play with you and then I'll [00:42:00] smash you all up.

[00:42:01] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yes, that's it. That was surfing and that was skateboarding and everyone loved it until, oh, what have I done? Yeah,

[00:42:08] Tyler: see. But skating, it feels like it goes in these waves, right? Like where it will go underground. It will reinvent itself slightly. And you see new brands come up again. Whereas I feel like surfing doesn't really, it feels like it either, like, it's, it's like on a slower trajectory up. It never like, I mean, crashes in one way, but like, it doesn't feel like there's like resurgence of new things coming up or young people, like taking charge of, of it in some ways.

[00:42:40] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: it is. It's cyclical too, but it's also like we saw the pandemic,

[00:42:44] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:42:45] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: you know, you couldn't find a surfboard. Everyone was buying reports. Shops were doing great. And then now everyone's eating shit.

[00:42:51] Tyler: I know. Right.

[00:42:53] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: quicker than normal, but it's always kind of had that ebb and flow as well.

[00:42:57] Like people age out, new kids come in, they don't want Rusty's, [00:43:00] they want Paisel's or they want Marcio's. And then that way, when that's done, who's the next guy on deck. And then clothing brands, like I used to work with the Stoddard brothers at Transworld. They started Brixton. And that started small and got huge.

[00:43:12] And, you know, same thing, they ended up selling it and made some money. It's a rad brand.

[00:43:16] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:43:17] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: They show up and it kind of, they ended up falling into the same pattern. Cause you're not doing it just to do it at some point. You're now you're trying to make some money at it

[00:43:24] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: Well, at a certain point, it's like, what you're doing is like, You're doing, you're engaged in a discipline because you love it and your enthusiasm for it from an outsider's perspective makes it seem cool. And then people realize that there's money to be made from cool and it's built up and sold to people who are like, okay, we're going to profit on cool.

[00:43:46] And at that point it loses some of that factor, right? It's if not all of it.

[00:43:50] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: And it's like anything, like San Diego was really cool until everyone wanted to move here and buy it. Now I can't afford to live here and it's anywhere like Hawaii, you name it. Like everything's [00:44:00] really cool until people find it and then sort of. Blow it up and then bring what they took from where they're from to implement here.

[00:44:06] And it changes, it changes the recipe. And I

[00:44:09] Tyler: is why we can't have nice things.

[00:44:11] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: it's exactly why that saying exists.

[00:44:14] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio:Speaking of being part of something really cool. Can you talk. A little bit more, aside from your life threatening, uh, illness, uh, about your experience at Tavarua as a boatman. How the f

[00:44:24] Tyler: How did you become a freakin boatman there?

[00:44:27] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: Come on.

[00:44:28] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Lucky. We, my whole life is luck. Everything's been luck. I've been in the right place at the right time. And it's

[00:44:33] Tyler: You're just really likable.

[00:44:35] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: maybe that, I don't know. Maybe not. You depend on who you talk to you. Not everyone likes you, dude. Let's just be straight. I guess people would definitely hate me. Um,

[00:44:42] Tyler: people are assholes. So they don't count.

[00:44:44] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: I agree. Um, the Tavaro thing was, I was working for Bird in the surf shop.

[00:44:50] And John Roseman would come by all the time because he's a wind and sea surf club guy, like bird. And, um, yeah, I just was working there, you know, behind the counter. Hey, what's up, John, whatever. And he comes in [00:45:00] when he goes, Hey, like, if you ever want to come down and do boating for me. I think he had just taken ownership, his ownership of the island, like a year or two before.

[00:45:07] And, um, you know, I was like, ah, man, I got a girlfriend and, you know, I got to pay rent. I don't think I could do it. Thanks anyway. Yeah. He's like, okay. Like, you know, if you change your mind, let me know. And Steve Baker, one of the boatman there, uh, came in one day and he's like, Hey, are you're Ken? I'm like, yeah, I remember you.

[00:45:27] You're Stevie goes, well, you're not going to take the job. John offered you a job as a boatman. You're not going. I'm like, well, I got a girlfriend at same story. And he goes, you know, you're a fucking idiot. Like it'll change your life. You have to go. And, you know, In my little world, I was like, I'd gone to Hawaii a few times, but, um, you know, I'm living in Pacific beach.

[00:45:45] I'm working in the surf shop. I think I'm just sort of locked into something. And it really was like that first time of like, dude, put that shit down for a minute and do something. Like, and my dad had just died a couple of years before. So I was like, you know what? Like life is shorter than you think. I put the [00:46:00] truck in storage and told my girlfriend I'm going to go do this

[00:46:02] Tyler: How did, how'd she respond? I'm curious.

[00:46:05] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: she wasn't too stoked. And you know, later, my ex wife eventually anyway. So it was a lot of work. But that trip was probably the most special thing I've ever done. And especially at that time, because it was still a private Island, it was still private waves. There was still only maybe 10 berets on the Island. It was the, the power center for Tabor at the time was a V8 engine. And you'd have to put oil in it and gas in it and make, you'd have to turn it off at 10 at night.

[00:46:32] There was no eight air conditioning outdoor showers. So you had to collect rainwater to make your shower. Um, you know, it just was primitive and it, to be able to go and work in a surf camp like that. At that time, it was January till April or whatever I was there. And, um, you know, there was a point where there was no one on the island.

[00:46:48] Like it was just me and the other boatman and they close it down for a few weeks where you got to like sand down the boats and you're sanding the floors. It's kind of some hard work, but it's three o'clock and you go in a boat with two dudes to cloud [00:47:00] break and it's six foot. And it's just you three people surfing perfect cloud break.

[00:47:03] And there was days where I would go surf out there. I take some gas and they would sit in the boat. Cause they were like talking, there's a guy from Quicksilver who was talking about the tube riding contest that we're going to do.

[00:47:12] Paul: Yes.

[00:47:13] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: And they ended up sitting and talking and it's kind of firing. And they're like, yeah, you go ahead and surf.

[00:47:18] Like, we're just going to catch up on stuff. And I surfed cloud break by myself for like two hours, getting this insane barrels and kicking out, like losing my mind. Like, Oh my God, I wouldn't normally be surfing like two foot crystal pier. With 30 dudes, you know, and I'm standing in stand up barrels, like just having the day of my life.

[00:47:36] And I remember like coming in and like getting on the radio to call him like, Hey, you guys it's firing. There's, you know, whatever. And they were all at the lookout tower, drinking beers, watching through the binoculars. And they were like, you were having the best day of your life. Like we just wanted to watch.

[00:47:49] And I was like, man, that meant so much to me. Like one of the boatmen, this guy, Terry Stewart was the gnarliest boatman ever. He was like, you were ripping. And I was like, Oh, like

[00:47:56] Tyler: Dude,

[00:47:57] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: high point. Yeah.

[00:47:58] Tyler: I was just going to ask, like, if you get [00:48:00] barreled and there's no one around to see it, did you even get barreled? You know? Like,

[00:48:04] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: I got better.

[00:48:05] Tyler: thank God there were people there to witness. So that's even more gratifying. Like you're like,

[00:48:10] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: pretty. Yeah. I mean, that goes as like a session of my life. Like you don't know it at the time, but as the years go by and you go, wow, I'll never have anything like that again. And I've been back there a bunch of times. And every time I was like 30, 40, 50 dudes out and it's different.

[00:48:24] So back then it just was like, you could take your time and get in the right spot really comfortably. And it just was really special. And the Fijians, Fijians. Are what makes that place so special. I had more amazing connections with the Fijians that short time with Druku and Issei and all like the people on the Island.

[00:48:41] It just, that to me is what I remember the most, like really understanding like, Oh, these people don't have much. And they're the happiest I've ever seen. And here we are, all these tourists who come down with all this shit. And we're always unhappy and we're trying to get away from whatever. And it, it opened my perspective of like, you don't need much to be happy.

[00:48:58] And hence why back [00:49:00] now I don't mind making less but being happier because that's, that's, that's all you have, you know, but yeah, that's what

[00:49:07] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: I think happiness and a sense of whether you feel rich or poor is less about how much you have as opposed to how much you are perceived that you don't have, like yourself, that you're perceiving yourself not to have, you know what I'm saying? It's like somebody can always have more than you, but that has nothing to do with happiness whatsoever.

[00:49:27] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: gratitude is everything, man. Like when you're when you finally go, Hey, man, I've got more than I ever needed. And yeah, it's not nearly as much as the next guy. I don't own a house. I don't own stuff. But the life I've chosen to have. Has paid me in these riches that like it's not monetary It's really these great experiences and that's what I when I I have some stories to share That are unique, you know, just because it's like most people atlanta college.

[00:49:52] They have a good job. They got the house They're killing it. I'm not killing it, but I lived a little bit of life instead And uh, I don't regret that, [00:50:00] you know,

[00:50:00] Tyler: It's, it's funny. Like I feel like the internet and making the world smaller and like flaunting all the people who have things in front of other people's faces around the world has created some sort of angst amongst people everywhere, it's

[00:50:16] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: yeah

[00:50:17] Tyler: Oh, I should have this or that. Like you see it and you're like, Oh, I kind of want that almost.

[00:50:22] And whereas when it's at, it was more out of sight, out of mind, and you didn't, didn't have it constantly flaunted in your face on social media. You were able to focus more on what was in front of you. Well, that's also

[00:50:34] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: not real life. No, it's never. No, totally. All the stuff that's flaunted is, is Fugazi.

[00:50:38] It's, it's like, you know, it's like.

[00:50:40] Tyler: Or you, or you'd, or you'd watch like Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous and that, and that you'd watch that and you'd be like, yeah, that doesn't look very fun though. You know? Right. Actually it was like, ah, that kind of seems pretentious and annoying. You know?

[00:50:55] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: No, you're right. It we didn't have You had so much more space [00:51:00] because you weren't thinking of all the things you didn't have. You just kind of like I talked about, I didn't know we were poor, like you lived your life and that was reality. And it's sort of like that trip to Fiji we talked about was the same thing.

[00:51:10] There's people who lived in these dirt floor shacks and they'd make, you know, they had a hot plate and they'd drink hot when we smoked cigarettes. And dude, we had the best times ever. And they had nothing. And I'm like, dude, I would have traded everything to live like that with them just because to see how content and happy they were.

[00:51:25] And now, when you go back, all the young people, they all have phones and it's changed. And it finally caught up to all those little villages. Everyone's like modernized and it's not the same, but you know, it's sort of those things of like those moments in time that we have are super special and our kids will never know that, but we could tell them about it and write these stories and kind of explain like there is a different way you can live

[00:51:47] Tyler: Feel like you're missing out, Fin, Finley. His daughter's right here, right here, sitting in the wings.

[00:51:53] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: that.

[00:51:54] Tyler: And 10 years old. How old are you? Eleven. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. We kind of screwed the world up for [00:52:00] you.

[00:52:01] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: So I want to know, having gone through all these special moments and all these crazy, awesome experiences at the time you're going through them, were you like, okay.

[00:52:12] This is a very special place in time, or did that take hindsight?

[00:52:17] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Hindsight fully. Cause when you're going, cause that it's just like you walk out today and go to step 11, do whatever. Right. That's, that's, that's how it is back then. When you go to the North shore or something, you'd had a, you called ahead, found a place to stay. You went with a hundred bucks for a month.

[00:52:32] You had plate lunch every day and he just woke up surfing and I could work in a surf shop for a year and save for a month to stay in Hawaii and just go surfing. And it was, uh, you didn't know at the time, like I didn't know. Benji's house was going to be this rad house. I didn't know Jack Johnson was going to be a singer.

[00:52:47] I didn't know. Rob's and Shane were going to be killer pros, but they were all kids hanging out and you're like, Oh, they're all, we're all just surfing. And so as things progress in life, in hindsight, like, Whoa, like we were all just kids surfing. [00:53:00] And everyone became either pros or these things. And then now we're so far down the road.

[00:53:04] You've seen people climb and fall and have bad times and lose things and go through heartbreak. Right. And that's, that's sort of the whole thing. Like you don't see it coming. And so when you're in the middle of a good moment, it's just sort of, that's today and, you know, I knew Tavaro trip was pretty special, um, and this white trips, but as things got kind of different, you start looking back like, holy crap, there was no one there.

[00:53:28] Holy crap. You surf pipeline with eight dudes, not 180. And you had a chance to get a waiver too. And I don't know, it just was a real lucky moment. I don't even know if it's lucky. You just right place, right time, right era, you know?

[00:53:42] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: Yeah. It's that seems to be a, uh, a theme. When I look at the cool stuff that you've been involved with, whether it's surfing, music, skating, it like, I'm like, wow, right place, right time.

[00:53:55] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Right place, right time.

[00:53:56] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: and it's one of those things where all like, I'll take my daughter to a concert. [00:54:00] And like post a clip and you'll be like, Oh, that's my friend.

[00:54:02] Swami John playing guitar. It's like, of course, you're, you're friends with Swami John Reese, like right place, right time. Ken Lewis, like,

[00:54:09] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Weird thing, right? You start going like we grew up Pacific Beach, right? That's any town USA. I mean, Seal Beach, you pick a town. And all these guys, we've just had our little local bands. And I didn't know, you know, Rocket from the Crypt or Hot Snakes were going to be these big bands. It was just this guy who was from PB.

[00:54:24] And then my friend Gar was a great surfer fisherman. He's in those bands too. And, you I didn't think they were going to get any bigger than out of San Diego. You know, Blink 182, this huge band, we all thought sucked. We're like, they're not even the good guys. That's not even the good band. What do I know?

[00:54:38] Like, that guy, they went to be

[00:54:40] Tyler: he's married to, now married to a Kardashian.

[00:54:42] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Would have never guessed any of that. They were like, seriously, that band

[00:54:45] Tyler: one saw that one coming actually.

[00:54:48] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Like, it is. But, you know, like, that guy Tom lived with Benji as a roommate when he didn't have any money. So, you're like, The weird connections that have always kind of were around back then.

[00:54:58] And you can talk to Taylor Steele [00:55:00] about the same thing. It just was like all these weird connections just sort of lined up for people. And, uh, yeah, like I wasn't one, like I said, not one of the guys, but around it and it's neat to see it because you feel like you're sort of involved, but you're not, you're, you saw it go down.

[00:55:13] So that was always kind of fun.

[00:55:14] Tyler: So did you, were you hanging at Benji's house at the heyday then? Was that

[00:55:20] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: but before the heyday. So like he had just moved there when he was like 15. And, uh, I think I went. The next year I turned 18 there and it was kind of before everyone hung out there. Like before Taylor and everybody, it just was like the picture of just Benji in the house and me and pipeline off the deck. And then by the next year, I don't think I could stay there. I think he already had people coming. So I stayed at a hostel across the way with like Bobby Inger. I don't know if you know, I was a roommate with Bob and he was here from Florida and we went back there and he started dating Benji's sister. So all these little weird connections, right.

[00:55:56] But by the year three, I don't think I even talked to, um, Benji [00:56:00] anymore. Like he was already in the heyday of like, that's what Kelly and everybody.

[00:56:03] Tyler: Benji.

[00:56:04] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah, no. Yeah. He, yeah. And I was like, again, like I'm not one of those dudes, you know? So I was like, okay, I'm staying at other people's houses and stuff. And by like year five, it was like, I didn't have anyone I knew anymore really to stay with.

[00:56:15] So I just, I didn't, I couldn't afford like turtle Bay. So I just sort of stopped.

[00:56:21] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: I actually, you told me a story one time where, um, you were looking for a place to stay and I thought it was so funny because you basically ended up being like de facto Joel Tudor's butler.

[00:56:34] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah.

[00:56:34] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: God. All right. I got to hear this story.

[00:56:38] Tyler: Go on. All right. All right.

[00:56:39] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Joel saved me for sure. So I knew Joel since he was a kid, like, um, I would go pick him up from his house in UC and take him to the pier. And one time his board flew off my car and his dad yelled all this shit. Right. I've known him for a long time, but I was staying with John Carper, the surfboard shaper, and he had shaped all my boards at Rusty's and stuff.

[00:56:57] And so that, that winter I was writing his [00:57:00] board, staying in his house, but I showed up and I had a tattoo. And I, I don't think I was quite Christian enough or I don't know what it was. He never really told me, basically asked me to leave. Like he said, like, I need you to stay somewhere else. And it was like, yeah, the weird part, Peter King has the same type story, but I was like, Whoa, that's kind of gnarly.

[00:57:18] Like I just got here day

[00:57:19] Tyler: Peter King is Christian enough. That's the weird

[00:57:22] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: And that's the weird thing. I don't know. I don't know why Pete, I remember Peter telling me he had the same experience, like a weird falling out. And, uh, so I ended up back towards Benji's house. Cause I didn't know where else to go. I left my shit on the side of his house.

[00:57:34] And I surfed off the wall left just cause I'm like, I'm just going to go surf and maybe I'll see somebody. And Joel was out. And so I started talking to Joel in the water and, you know, we're just sharing all these killer lefts going into backdoor. And we went in, I'm like, where are you staying? You know, he's like right there at the Lopez house.

[00:57:49] Tyler: Whoa.

[00:57:50] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: compound. And I'm like, I'm like, dude, like totally like Joel, please. Like, I like help me. Like I I'll stay, I'll do whatever. And he goes, Hey, I'm [00:58:00] not renting it. It's this Japanese guy, Takuji Masuda. He's the one renting the house. And I'm like, I don't know who he is. And it's two Japanese long borders, this Davey Chong guy and someone in TAC and Joel and Colin McPhillips.

[00:58:12] And they were renting most of the house. So I had to like talk to TAC and be like, Hey, I will, I'll clean, I'll do the dishes. Help me. Anything I need to put like I was begging and he was like, I don't know. And Joel was really cool. Like, Hey man, he's a good dude. Like he could stay in my room on the couch or whatever.

[00:58:31] And so I stayed for two weeks as the full doing the dishes, sweeping the floor,

[00:58:37] Tyler: you were happy about it too.

[00:58:40] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: like beyond happy about it. Like I,

[00:58:41] Tyler: you like, were you like, Jerry Lopez used to clean his dishes here and Tony, his ex wife, you know,

[00:58:48] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: didn't feel that bad. I felt definitely like, okay, like I'm cleaning up all the weed that they left on the table and shit. know, it was like, you know, Joel had at that time, black hair, short black [00:59:00] hair, because the winter before he got hassled a lot, you know? And, um, I remember one day we're in the house and like all the heavies used to always go to the backyard to watch the surf, like Derek Ho, everybody.

[00:59:11] And Perry Dane, this gnarly North shore enforcer, what is that? He's looking at the screen and he goes, which one are you as Joel? I'm like, fuck, you know? And Joel comes up and he's like, Hey, and he's like, Hey, Uncle Jerry called from Maui and told me to look out for you. And if you need anything, let me know.

[00:59:28] And I'm like, fucking Perry Dane is like your bodyguard. Like,

[00:59:31] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: no way.

[00:59:32] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: So like Joel had a really nice red carpet experience from like Jerry and all the, you know, the legends that looked out for him. And, uh, I dude, no matter where, Joel is now it's like he helped me a lot that winter and I did I was I'm always appreciative of that like he Helped me a lot.

[00:59:48] So that was really cool him to do that

[00:59:51] Tyler: I would have been totally nerding out. Like Jerry Lopez just shat. He shat in this toilet. One time I, I'll tell you my [01:00:00] brother, when he was living there, he worked at like, uh, the cafe, um, this like health food cafe and. Slater didn't finish like his hummus on the plate. And so my brother's like, maybe I'll get some of his serving superpowers if I eat his

[01:00:12] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: How gross is that

[01:00:15] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: are currently, uh, taking out restraining orders.

[01:00:20] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Like gross dude

[01:00:24] Tyler: You ate my hummus?

[01:00:26] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah, lick the plate.

[01:00:27] Tyler: even mad, I'm impressed.

[01:00:31] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: That's funny as shit.

[01:00:32] Tyler: Hey, what? Like, when you were in Tavrua then, I gotta ask, like, what's, like, the most harrowing thing you saw when you were there? Like, crazy, scary, terrifying, uh, events. Injuries, you know, we, you know, we were talking, like, before, we were like, we gotta mind Ken for stories here, so I'm curious, like, some of those

[01:00:53] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: um Probably the scariest was if you surf restaurants on a lower [01:01:00] tide. It's it's pretty scary pretty dry. Like if you sit on your surfboard, your feet will hit. So whatever that is like a foot and a half deep right on takeoff. And then as you're going looking down, it's, it's, you know, sucks off the reef.

[01:01:11] So if you were to fall like it's dry, but what happens a lot is people don't put their leashes on their shoulder. And I watched a guy sitting and all of a sudden just goes underwater and sports, tombstoning. And the leash had wrapped around a coral head and he just got sucked underwater. And once you're, it's like a river when the water flows down restaurants, like a river, so you're, you're pulling against it and you can't, you can't get it.

[01:01:34] And there was no quick release leashes back then. So that dude was underwater for a minute. And like we were paddling to get to him and there's sets coming in and you got to go duck, dive and try and get the guy. He almost drowned. And I guess that's actually happened there a few different times where people had to be revived, they actually drowned that way.

[01:01:50] Um, people have been propped by boats, stuff like that. But that was the heavy one that I saw. And then, um, the heavy one at cloud break was there's a Italian, [01:02:00] uh, writer who was doing story on Tauru, because it was a new resort or whatever. And we, we, he never served. We told him like, stay in the boat, like just take pictures, whatever.

[01:02:11] And we're surfing like four foot cloud break. And we look at, he's like chin on the board, paddling. And you get the experience. We're like, no, no, no. Let go back. And we're like pretty far off the point. He gets caught inside, washed into shish kebabs and he's just on dry reef. You know, we're like, fuck, like we got to go in there to get them.

[01:02:26] So we had to like ride into shish kebabs. Have them hold under our ankles. And then we had a paddle and through cloud break in the inside, back to the boat.

[01:02:34] Tyler: Oh no.

[01:02:35] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: I was like, we were getting cut up and punished and trying to save the guy. And I remember Baker was like yelling at him, like getting the fucking boat, like, I don't care that you're here.

[01:02:44] Like you're risking our lives. Fuck off. You know, that was a, that was a heavy one just because you had to go in to get the guy. So that, that was probably the two that I saw. And then, um, maybe the coolest thing was, um, you know, When I was there, [01:03:00] Roseman was like, Hey, we have the Becker group coming. And I was like, Oh, Becker surf shop.

[01:03:03] That's cool. You know, like Phil Becker or whatever. And it wasn't Phil Becker. It was Walter Becker from Steely Dan.

[01:03:08] Tyler: Oh no way. No.

[01:03:10] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: was a trip. And you know, I was, no, he didn't, his wife did, and she was cool as shit. Her name was Eleanor and she showed up with weed and she smoked doobies in the lookout tower. And then she surfed cloud break pretty big and like went, and we were like, whole, she was our favorite by far.

[01:03:27] And Walter would like sit in front of the beret, like playing guitar. Very, um, like you'd walk by and like, stop and be like, Hey, and he'd stop playing like super shy. And we talked to him a few times at dinner. I think I loaned him a book, but that was kind of a cool, like, you know, I was into punk rock, I didn't give a shit about Steely

[01:03:44] Tyler: Alright. Yeah.

[01:03:45] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: later.

[01:03:46] I love Steely Dan. I'm like, fuck, I should have like engaged one. But that was like, that was probably the coolest interaction I had when I was there.

[01:03:53] Tyler: Now if you were to go back to Tavarua, if you could go back in time to your peak [01:04:00] surfing uh, physicalities, what sort of quiver would you bring to Tavarua? Tavarua. Like, cause I never see, I only see like guns and, you know, short boards. Like I very rarely see anyone riding something different that I think could totally work there.

[01:04:17] But I'm curious, like a very

[01:04:18] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: fishable wave. If you're a

[01:04:21] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: on a fish is really fun. Really

[01:04:23] Tyler: long fish,

[01:04:24] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: I've ridden my, uh, one year I did take a seven foot fry swallowtail and it was pretty chunky. So I was like, I got, I need more foam. So I took that a fry, which you don't think would work good. But I rode that at like eight foot restaurants and that was insane speed runs, but there's a reason you have, like, like you said, peak physicality.

[01:04:42] Cloud break is, it's just like pipeline, but it's hundreds of yards long and, um, you'll see it come down the reef at you, like this big thing grinding down. And you sort of hop into the freight train. And so there's so much speed. You don't really want the wide tails. It's just, you just spin out. So yeah, that's why you [01:05:00] always see like this real gunny performance boards.

[01:05:02] Cause it just fits the wave. Right. Um, but yeah, restaurants is a blast. That's to me, my favorite wave in the world ever. And it's, it's so perfect. I mean, I don't think I've ever fallen there. It just was, you can't fuck it up. Like it's so good. Like it's a perfect way. Like once you get into it, it just, it doesn't section really.

[01:05:20] So that way for me was my favorite and that you could ride again. I've seen Rosamond ride a little fish on it and it was the funnest looking thing ever. You know,

[01:05:27] Tyler: God, that sounds

[01:05:28] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: but yeah, that quiver, I had a quiver of eight Rusties back when I went that he all hand shaped for me and it was like one, six, 10 was the best board I ever rode.

[01:05:37] And I broke it pretty quick. And the second 610 worked terribly. And he shaped them both sequentially. So you never know with

[01:05:44] Tyler: It was funny. He was really tired when he got to that second one. And like, I

[01:05:49] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: feel like surfboards always have something that's indescribable. Uh, where you can exactly replicate a board and it's not going to be the same.

[01:05:58] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: I swear to me, the [01:06:00] magic is generally a mistake. Like I've had boards that were basically the whole right rail shape, a quarter inch off than the other rail. So the fins are set different. And that board was incredible. Or boards with twists or a fin that hummed and was set wrong. Like some of my favorite surfboards were ones that were actually kind of a mistake.

[01:06:18] And then when you get these perfect machine boards now, I don't know, man, the magic is somewhere, I think, in the shape or doing something, I don't know, maybe on purpose, maybe not,

[01:06:28] Tyler: Uh, Aki's 84 board from Rusty, you know, it had the wrong canted fin and everything, you know, and that was like his magic board,

[01:06:36] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: and you saw the surfing was incredible. You're like, Oh my, like that board wasn't magic, but yeah,

[01:06:42] Tyler: imperfect is, is the term I like to use, you know,

[01:06:46] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: I think that's the funnest part about surfboards to me. They're like totems, right? Like they come and go in your life and sometimes they're magic when you first get them and they lose life. But then someone else gets it and it's better than anything they've ever had.

[01:06:57] So there's a magic, beautiful thing with surfboards that [01:07:00] just, they get passed around and I love it. You know, that's, that's the coolest.

[01:07:03] Tyler: my, my new, my favorite board right now is the one, no offense. I love your board too, but you know, but I've been writing, uh, the self shape I did with Jimmy O'Brien. It should be your favorite. Jimmy O'Brien, this local guy here, does poem surfboards. He shaped one half and I shaped the other. So my half really, you know, is imperfect.

[01:07:22] But it works great, you know?

[01:07:25] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: I think everyone should shape a surfboard at least once. And the gratification of like shaping a board and writing it and having it work. I don't know, man. I did a couple of, I've shaped about 10 or 12 and like one fish worked so good. I just was like, so proud that I made something that worked. Cause I've always looked up with surfboard builders as like, you know, The shaman, you know, like they're the gnarliest to me.

[01:07:45] It's always a surfboard manufacturer and the builders, the glassers, the Sanders, and to be able to like shape something that worked, I was like, man, I finally feel like that was sort of a gift, you know, like you did something special,

[01:07:59] Tyler: I [01:08:00] wanted to ask, uh, a story. First, like, I loved your substack. I wish you continued that.

[01:08:07] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: you know,

[01:08:08] Tyler: I really enjoyed the stories that you have on there are great.

[01:08:12] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: yeah,

[01:08:12] Tyler: you know, great. They're nice, they're not too long, but they're, they're, it's like, just super digestible, which I really enjoyed.

[01:08:19] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: there was two different times. I started a blogger page and I was working for omit, the skateboard company with Chris Cole and. You know, you're grinding away and then there's certain things you think about midday that made you so happy that these moments in life. So I would start writing those stories, um, mostly just to get them down.

[01:08:34] So I wouldn't forget the details. And then the, the sub stack was sort of like that. Oh, that's a new version of that. I'm going to do it again. And every time I would start it, then I'd have another job or life hammer would happen. And I couldn't, I just didn't keep up. And so I basically taken all those to the new website and I've reedited a couple of them.

[01:08:52] I've added some different things. Um, I get to put stuff up there, you know, I don't know if you read the skip fry article.

[01:08:59] Tyler: I was, I [01:09:00] was just gonna ask about the, the Tom, no, no, no, I was gonna ask about the Tom Curran Darekind and the fry fish, but I don't know if that was what you're referencing

[01:09:08] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: No, there was a really,

[01:09:09] Tyler: in the surface journal.

[01:09:11] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: yeah, I was, I had asked Eric Hynde about like, Hey, tell me about the DH fish and just tell me your version or whatever. And he wrote me this really great thing for the article. And, uh, when I sent it to Mace to kind of look at Scott Hewlett, um, he's like, yeah, we're not going to put that in.

[01:09:26] Cause one of the quotes of it was like, All this really great backstory, but then it gets to like, once I saw people put four fins on a fish, I wanted to throw up and Toby Pavel was the word, like the worst offender kind of thing. And I was like, Whoa, like kind of controversial take, but you know, from Derek kind that it holds a little weight, like for him.

[01:09:46] The fish should be very sacred for what it is. And then the four fins was whatever, but it was fun. I sat on that thing for seven years and finally on my own website, I'm like, I'm not beholden to anybody. And then he wrote that and then he wrote it to me and I'm going to share it. So it's kind of fun to be able to share [01:10:00] those tidbits where it fit for print, you know?

[01:10:03] Tyler: Can you, can you, for our listeners, just recount that tale of the, the Derek Hinde, uh, and Tom Curran and that fry fish? Cause I think it's such a cool story and I think it's like, um, It's a fracture point in surfing. You know, I think that, that, that coming together of those elements have, have had dramatic impacts on surfing that I think people probably don't recognize enough.

[01:10:30] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: I agree completely. I think you can basically break down surfboards kind of before that and after that, because before that the fish had its day in the seventies, you know, all the way to the mid seventies, really. And once we got into like Twin Fins and MR and Tri Fins and Simon and then Tom Kern shows up shortboarding.

[01:10:48] We were on that path. It was like performance surfboards. And granted, San Diego is always going to be a throwback. We always had people riding fish. We had people riding pintails at the point. Like, those guys were always around. [01:11:00] There weren't many of them. And when you saw a guy writing a fish, you wanted to, the step up was the twin fin and then the tri fin.

[01:11:08] And so we were on this path. It was like clear six, two bumps, squash, short boards. And that's how everyone surfed. And if you didn't ride those, like there was no fun board category. Um, we would have shapers like Bill Menard build a seven, six eggs in the summertime. So beginners would learn.

[01:11:23] Tyler: good. His, his, my dad used to carry a bunch of those and Dennis Murphy boards, which

[01:11:28] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Legends, you know,

[01:11:30] Tyler: serious legend. And though his freaking fun boards were the best fucking boards. It's like, I wish, I wish I. I wish I had the forethought at the time or the foresight to be like, Oh, I'm keeping one of these.

[01:11:42] You know, they're beautiful.

[01:11:43] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Beautiful boards. And they were the guys that you got to shape. Basically, in lieu of soft boards, we had shapers make eggs for beginners. And that's all you would find. You you'd find some performance long boards from Murphy. You'd find some eggs from Menard and whoever else. And then it was all short [01:12:00] boards.

[01:12:00] I mean, Channel Islands, Rusty's, whatever. And so when Curran gets ahold of that fish, which was Derek Hines, that Derek had skip shaped for him, um, which he credits back to that relationship being through Hank Warner, cause that was a hot buttered connection. So. Terry Fitzgerald. So Hank was the hot buttered shaper in the U S so that's how him and Derek got connected, um, back in Australia, but then also in, in California.

[01:12:23] And so that's how then Derek met Skip all through Hank Warner. And so, you know, when he, Harry's was going, he was like, Hey, you know, shape me this fish for J bay. And Derek didn't like it. It was real wide in the tail, nine by five, straight back keels. And he let Tom ride it. And he goes, that's the only session Tom wrote it on.

[01:12:40] It was 15 minutes. Sonny filmed all the waves that Tom caught and that was in that movie, but it showed like our main guy at the peak of his performance, riding this fish, making it look pretty damn fun. And it sort of like made you realize like, Oh, like that guy is writing something different. Like maybe I can.[01:13:00]

[01:13:00] And like I said, in PB, we were different. We still skip was right there. Everyone's writing eggs and longboard still, but nowhere else really. It was people were on the shortboard too. And so after that is when. Next thing after next thing, right. It became a lost like five, five by whatever.

[01:13:15] Tyler: Litmus.

[01:13:16] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: yeah, and then people were like writing weird shit after that, like kind of consistently.

[01:13:21] And I think they took it real small and then it started going into like, you know, back to single fans and you got Ross to bitch writing fries too. And it just sort of spread the message of the fish around and then other alternative boards.

[01:13:34] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: And,

[01:13:34] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: do feel like it was the moment.

[01:13:36] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: from my perspective, that's the era that I came up in. Uh, in San Diego, uh, growing up there and in the same area and PB, you know, tourmaline was my spot and I would ride shorter boards at other places. Uh, but I can remember post litmus post seedling writing like Volon single fin logs

[01:13:58] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah.

[01:13:59] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio:[01:14:00] uh, and then went to Mitzvah and after I saw litmus and it was like, Oh, I need that fish.

[01:14:04] Like I need, I need a day of kind fish. And, uh, and those boards like. We're, we're everything like still to this day, I write those boards,

[01:14:13] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: You know, it's funny in my, in my senior yearbook, my yearbook in high school. So 1989, I, people were writing in it, like, get off the longboard, lose the soul, fucking, you know, like people would talk to like, dude, quit riding longboards, get back shortboarding. Cause I was like writing a lot of skips and it was like, it was definitely like not normal to have skips or eggs or fun boards or whatever.

[01:14:35] And if you wrote them, you got shit for it. And before the shortboard thing, if you, you did write a shortboard spot, you got shit for that too. Like you weren't just welcome. Like, Oh, you're writing weird stuff. Come on out. People were like split. So people don't know what it was like kind of before all that.

[01:14:51] It really was like one track mind. You got to ride the right board at the right label at the right place, whatever. And now the freedom [01:15:00] of a fish today and Eagle tomorrow, normal shortboard when the waves are good. The normalizing of a quiver is pretty neat, you know?

[01:15:08] Tyler: yeah. Oh, it's, it's incredible. I mean, like we all were following the glass slipper, you know, Slater's glass slipper and trying to, you know, here in New York, uh, or East coast trying to make, uh, you know, uh, An 18 inch wide, you know, short board where like two, two inches thick dome deck, you know, three in and, and, and you're like trying to make them work in like mushy knee high waves.

[01:15:34] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. The weird part of how you did like. I look back, I remember getting some Rusties that were 17 and three quarter, like full flip nose. And the shot, I had one shot of doing the best cutback ever on one, and a little tiny wave in mission beach. And it's like, I go, how the fuck did I get all that speed?

[01:15:50] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: Yeah.

[01:15:51] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Cause they were really like, you had to keep them just back and forth. But I look back now, like they're like the most unusable quiver ever. Like if you were to find your old boards, you'd [01:16:00] never want to write them again. Yeah.

[01:16:02] Tyler: this certain type of wave, they work great a way that you don't have to generate speed. It's there. It works. I mean, Creed is like creating a tagger. It's kind of doing that with like. Finding those old Dahlbergs and then like

[01:16:15] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Oh, those are cool.

[01:16:16] Tyler: serving great and like overhead barreling waves and he's ripping them.

[01:16:20] That makes sense. Knee high slop makes no sense.

[01:16:25] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: And that's where I think, I think that's why people suddenly were so enamored with the fish, because for that three or four years, we were on those narrow boards, struggling at home, like they work great in Hawaii and Fiji for sure. But when you're at home and finally, when you saw current on a fish and you tried one and all of a sudden you're going, I'm going a hundred miles an hour skating over sections that made surfing really fun again.

[01:16:45] And so I think it was like, that's when people started like riding eggs and fish and all those other things, you know,

[01:16:50] Tyler: What do you, what do you think would happen had, so in your story, you talk about how Derek, you know, went to see Skip and found this G and S fish [01:17:00] just hanging in the side. I mean, what do you think would happen if he just walked past it for whatever reason,

[01:17:05] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: dude. Right.

[01:17:06] Tyler: You'd be in an alternate world.

[01:17:08] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: There's so many things like that though. Like you start thinking back to like all of it, like skip, let's say the fish Simmons, right? Like he was on a trip, big blank showed up. It was too straight. He threw the hip in it. Uh, I'm doing the Simmons thing. Like, dude, that we still ride those today.

[01:17:23] Right. You're shaping them. You know, our case will shape riding mini Simmons. Like all that stuff was a moment and it's just a decision by a guy. Like I want to create something that might work. And Derek looking at that board and going, you know what, let's revisit that. Cause he, he was in town probably 10 years before that.

[01:17:40] And he hated most of San Diego, but he ended up at the cliffs and he got insane waves and he saw a lot of guys riding those boards, like still ripping. Cause that, that group was still riding them. So Derek saw in its environment where it was created down at the cliffs. So he knew the merit of that shape firsthand.

[01:17:57] And he wrote about it in this 1980 article. Like I would [01:18:00] have left San Diego, never come back. It wasn't for sunset cliffs. And I always remembered reading that like, wow, like, cause I was a point guy. He was like, that place sucked. Like, you know, all those guys were writing archaic shit. They didn't, they weren't trying to go be better.

[01:18:13] So I think him coming full circle when he saw that fish probably was like, Oh, I totally remember seeing that in action. I want to, I want to get one. And dude, that, that did, it changed to me a lot of the direction of everything.

[01:18:25] Tyler: Yeah. And, and Ryan did a J Bay, which is probably one of the best waves for that type of board too. It's

[01:18:31] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: And then the DH fish and litmus, when he pulled in the tail a little bit more and shortened up the fins, he's doing that high line. And it was just like, Whoa, like that was right. When everything was open to like, let's go try a different shit. So that was a big, big player. Yeah. Derek has as much to do with, I think the success is the fish in modern times is like Stevie did when he invented it.

[01:18:51] Like

[01:18:52] Tyler: Who, who do you think has more of an impact for bringing those types of boards? Tudor, Curran, or Derrick?[01:19:00]

[01:19:01] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: the fish.

[01:19:02] Tyler: Fish and, well, just. The quiver. The older boards, you know, riding boards for the right conditions, that kind of mentality of like, cause, cause it, it all kind of ushered in around the same time. You had,

[01:19:14] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: well, Joel was like, yeah, Joel's on modern longboards. And he was like, I don't think a lot of people

[01:19:19] Tyler: he was riding some older stuff he was trying and then you also had Donovan trying out some, you know, going through garage sales and riding out those things.

[01:19:27] It was like mid nineties when it was like, and then, you know, thicker than water. They did that, you know, that single

[01:19:34] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: You're right. That era of like, you know, the mid nineties. Right. Like to 2000, um, that was a lot of dudes breaking up from who they were. Like, so Donovan was ripping short board and he got on weird stuff with doc. Right. Those weird fitness boards.

[01:19:48] Tyler: The, the USO board.

[01:19:49] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. He was writing modern long boards and then started getting into like, but you know, Joel always wrote everything.

[01:19:54] I will say like he came to the pier one time when he was a kid and I had a Toby Bonser and it [01:20:00] was the first Bonser he ever wrote and did he jumped on it and ripped on it, like killed it. And I'm like, Whoa, Joel couldn't ride a short board too, if he wants. He's got the skill to do that, but I do think it was current in that clip, um, that set the tone for all those guys later to be like, you know, when Gerlach came around, Gerlach was getting some skips.

[01:20:19] Once they all got off tour, they wanted to get something more from surfing. That's what a lot of people experiment. Yeah.

[01:20:26] Tyler: to see that again now with like album, right? And like you see Josh Kerr and all these like, you know, Jack Freestone and they're all like on these kind of alternate boards, you know, and it makes you think like, God, like should've been riding that on tour. You probably, you probably, you probably would have done better on tour actually, I think.

[01:20:45] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: But you know, it's funny. It's like tour is so set up for only that, that recipe. Like you'd have to be, you know, if you ride a different board, they almost like dock you points. So. It's kind of cool when you see people do get off the grind and like all of us, we were all shortboarding because we could. And then once [01:21:00] you kind of couldn't, you're like, I still want to surf.

[01:21:02] So then you try different shit. Then you're like, this is fun.

[01:21:04] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: Yeah. Turns out a lot of volume is a good thing. Yeah.

[01:21:09] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah.

[01:21:10] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: you're a big guy like us.

[01:21:12] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. Foam is your friend. And that, I think now that's the cool part. When you see people coming in, they're not grabbing a 62 shortboard. They're going right for a magic or a fish or a nozzle, right? They're going for something with more volume. And that's fun to see because it, it, And it's also a bummer because there's more surfers that get more waves and people stick around.

[01:21:30] Before I think people were trying, but this is hard as shit and they left. Now it's like there's a lot of easier boards everywhere. So maybe that's part of the problem too.

[01:21:38] Tyler: It's, it's, you know, it's, I will say like it's improved people's surfing though. Also like, uh, so many people, like I noticed now, like they have much better style than 20, 20 years ago when we were, you know, so many people grew up riding, you know, learning on a potato chip and they would overcompensate with the poo man stance and [01:22:00] everything.

[01:22:00] And now like you have people at least learning to ride boards properly. And like, you can see someone who may not be a great surfer, but they look good and they, they make it work. And that's, That's awesome to see. I love that.

[01:22:14] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. I think one of my, the biggest bummer for a long time was when you grew up and you went to the beach, you could look down the beach and knew a guy from a quarter mile away from a style. Like that's all there's bags or there's Johnny or there's someone like you just saw it like from so far away.

[01:22:28] The style is unique. We got to be like, there's a whole bunch of really not good surfing happening for a long time. Like just the level was like, the majority was bad and you'd see one or two guys on a whole beach surfing. Okay. It was kind of like, wow, like people aren't trying to get better. They're just trying to get in the water and there's nothing wrong with it.

[01:22:45] But it was like, no one was really committing to being better. And then now that I think the last 10 years, like you said, a lot of people like Mikey, February types that are. They're riding different boards from the get go, their style is, it's kind of getting fixed from the get go. [01:23:00] And now you're seeing better styles now, more often, which is really nice.

[01:23:04] But there was a window there where you're like, holy shit, like no one, no one's making a wave, no one's got a style. It was like so tough, you know?

[01:23:13] Tyler: it's, it's interesting. Like we have a guy here, Uri, who, or he was here, he was doing a lot of video content and everything and skipper surf review, but for first, his first five, Eight, six years, he was only riding like wave storms and just grabbing rail. And that was it started riding all these different boards and experimenting in his surfing, like.

[01:23:34] Just went on a crazy trajectory and it's so much better. You could see the improvement because a lot of these boards smooth your style out, they make you, uh, think you make you read the wave better. You're like, if you ride a single fin, you have to read the wave differently. And that makes you smoother, which I think is important.

[01:23:52] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: It's just like, you know, like a golf club, right? If you hit every club like a driver. Or whatever, you're only going to get this one result on feeling [01:24:00] all these other things of like shaping shots. It's the only thing I could kind of say that's similar, but with surfboards, no matter how good you are, you jump on a weird, funky shape, you start off really tentative and try to feel out the board and then the fin.

[01:24:12] And is it going to release and slide out here? Like, you don't know. And then as you learn the board, you can start surfing it where it looks normal, but you're like, it took a minute to do that. And I think there's a lot of people when they only have one surfboard and they only surf one way. That's when they're stuck.

[01:24:27] It's like, once you get on these different boards that make you quit wiggling, poo stance and let the board trim and run or get in the power pocket easier, then that's when you start people like really start going, Oh, surfing is something else,

[01:24:41] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: Right. It's like that beautiful moment where instead of trying to do something on the wave, you're forced to pay attention to what the wave is doing, your position on it, and instead you're doing something with the wave and trying to figure that out as opposed to like, what's my next trick going to be?

[01:24:58] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: right. The common [01:25:00] shortboard was so good when we were, I mean, you would look anywhere. You could go anywhere on those things. They were amazing. Um, but as you got older, heavier, this or that, You're, you're, you're looking in different places to send the board. You're not looking up here and where you're looking down the line or whatever.

[01:25:15] And to be able to have boards and fit that type of surfing, when you get to it, it's so nice because it's like, Oh, I'm flowing with the wave instead of always just trying to, you know, implement an error or do something crazy. So it is a fun way of like surfing now where you can go out and like, every day it's fun, no matter what you're writing.

[01:25:31] If you get the right board, you know,

[01:25:32] Tyler: Right. I, I always felt a true mark of a good surfer is someone who can ride a wide variety of boards and make them look good. Good. And it's, you know, it's really interesting. It's going to say something very unpopular, but watching Slater ride anything other than like a performance board is awful. Like, I don't know if you've ever seen him ride it.

[01:25:52] I've seen him ride twin fin fishes or MR fishes even. And they just don't

[01:25:57] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: yeah,

[01:25:58] Tyler: he tries to force [01:26:00] them to do things they're not meant to do. And and he doesn't let them have their natural curve or natural line a lot of the times.

[01:26:07] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: You know, it's funny. We got a guy out here too. This guy named Charlie, who's surfed a shoreboard his whole life. And he, he rips, dude, he ripped and he's still, he's 51 and he's still like, has, it looks exactly the same as he did in 1987. And it's awesome. But it is weird. Cause you're like, God, I can't imagine only eating like vanilla ice cream for 40 years.

[01:26:27] Like at some point I'm like, I'd have to want to try something else, but bless his heart, dude. He he's on dark arts now. And he's like surfing better than ever. And I don't knock it, but like you said, like we want maybe a different experience and maybe that's all Kelly wants. Maybe that's all Charlie wants and that's okay too.

[01:26:44] But it is a trip when you're like, man, that's just like one form of this broad, beautiful paint option. You know, like,

[01:26:51] Tyler: Yeah. There's, there's a cool story where like Jesse Fane and Slater are surfing Jeffries and they're on fishes and apparently [01:27:00] Fane just schooled Slater actually looked like I've heard, like he surfed better than Slater there because that board, you know, Slater wants, he wants to go wherever he wants to go, you know,

[01:27:10] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. The fish is like, you know, you got to draw straighter lines and S turns. And yeah, that's, and that's, what's rad when You could see a board and, you know, you guys at a certain age, you start knowing what works, what doesn't. And you get to look at a board and like, just check it and be like, yeah, that's going to work.

[01:27:27] And some like they're trying to do too much, you know, like I'm going to throw out a double wing, this throw this kind of concave, but I'm going to add these extra plugs. And you're like, you don't need to, I think, you know, people sometimes get away from like, it's all been refined to a point and they want to create something new and instead maybe just take what's already there.

[01:27:44] And how do you refine it in its category? Like you don't

[01:27:47] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: how do you refine it to fit your specific break?

[01:27:50] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Right. Like, okay, yeah, we have different ways, right? Like my Eagle doesn't work at every wave or my fish doesn't work. So yeah, it would be kind of rad to just be like, Hey, these are the boards that I know [01:28:00] work for these conditions and spots.

[01:28:02] And that's, I think, again, the sign of a true surfer. You, you know, after so many years of what you grab, what you grab out of your stash for that day, you know?

[01:28:10] Tyler: And you're also, I think as you evolve and as you get older, you start to chase a feeling instead of a performance, you know, like you're, you're like, okay, I'm, my body just doesn't allow me to do this or the conditions or whatever it is. And you're like, okay, I want to feel something different. I want to feel.

[01:28:31] A speed or a track or something else that keeps me interested in invested. I

[01:28:37] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. You know, it's funny. I was riding my, uh, big fish Simmons the other day. And, uh, I'm not shortboard much after my stuff. I'm like just happy to be surfing, but like ingrained in you or certain things. And so I'm on this left and I kind of go to a highlight, I get all that speed off the bottom and like habitually my, I looked at the corner, like I want to just jam a turn, [01:29:00] but I'm like fat and on 11 foot board.

[01:29:02] And I'm like, Whoa, like instinct was like, I want to go up there, but I just like, but it was so funny. Cause that's, that's sort of like, you're, you have those things that look familiar as they set up and you want to do that thing, but I remember like, I felt that, Ooh, no,

[01:29:20] Tyler: Hey, I wanted to ask about your, your, your stroke that you, you'd suffered. And I was curious, like one, like, what did you do for your recovery? And then there was also, you know, you had done a really cool trip as part of that recovery and I was hoping you can kind of speak to that.

[01:29:39] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Um, so yeah, my stroke was in, uh, November of 2022. I think so. Yeah. So I was just like having dinner with a guy and just, this weird ringing noise happened to my ear that I felt numb and nauseous and then I went to move and like my whole right side was numb and I'm like oh my god I'm either having a heart attack or a stroke [01:30:00] like I knew it was one of those.

[01:30:01] And, um, you know, it got to the hospital and luckily I didn't have to get that like clot buster thing. It was, they caught it in a good amount of time, but there's not much they could do. It's just sort of like, okay, let's see how fucked up you are. And in the hospital that first night, you know, the right on the board, like, what, you know, what's your, what's your goal?

[01:30:18] And I was like, dude, this is like bleak, you know, it's not like we want to go surf. I just want to walk. Cause I couldn't walk. And I'm like, I'd like to be able to walk. And then that was really humbling. Cause it's like, it's not going on a surf trip. It's not, you know, I just want to be able to walk normal.

[01:30:32] And that was the goal. And so that first week in the hospital was like, things started progressing kind of nicely to where I was getting some feeling back and I wasn't using the Walker and I could like hold the wall and every day was a little better. And then, um, I had heart surgery the next month to fix a hole in the heart that caused the stroke.

[01:30:50] And then the recovery was kind of like short. Cause I had to move my house. I got evicted at the same time and we had to move. So this was like life hammer shit was going on, [01:31:00] you know? And, um, then by the time we got moved in this place, I was like, okay, maybe I should go back to work, but it was too soon.

[01:31:08] And the guys were really cool who I worked for. They were paying me the whole time. I didn't have to get on disability or anything, but I just, I went back too soon and dude, I couldn't, I couldn't, I didn't have cognitive awareness, you know? And so I was pretty depressed. I'm like, okay, I can't surf. I barely have balance.

[01:31:24] I was barely being able to like walk good. And then I started getting these terrible headaches, like these really gnarly, they call it occipital neuralgia. And it was worse than the stroke. So the next three months, uh, it was so bad. They finally put me on disability. And then I had to spend the whole summer on the couch.

[01:31:39] Like I couldn't move my neck. The headaches were like zero to a hundred pain so fast. And so I couldn't do anything. So then it just was like, now I'm on like month six of not doing anything. Sitting on the couch, just tripping out, and I started, um, paddling a little bit by the end of that summer, 2023 summer, and, uh, I couldn't stand up [01:32:00] yet, I couldn't catch waves, couldn't stand up, and so I'd take my board into La Jolla Cove and just paddle around and, you know, jump in the water just to be in the ocean, and I would kneeboard a little bit, I could get to my knees, and so then it was like, I started getting some fun waves on this really thick six inch paddleboard thing, And I'd get like little barrels and stuff.

[01:32:17] I'm like, fuck, this is fun. Like, at least I'm doing something that brings joy. And then it was, um, that whole summer kneeboarding. And I started standing up a little bit in the fall, like last year, I guess. And Joe Kern had ordered a fish from skip and, uh, he was like, yeah, I don't know how I'm going to ship it up.

[01:32:37] I'm like, dude, how about I bring it to you? And that was kind of like my road trip. I wanted to go like, finally, after a year of being kind of messed up, I want to just get in the van. By myself and just drive up the coast. And so, yeah, I threw his board in the back and a couple of blanks for him to shave and I just drove up, you know, and see people up the coast, like Santa Barbara and Santa Cruz and stay the night, saw my kid and then drove up to Oregon to see [01:33:00] him and yeah, that was kind of, for me, that was like a really fun moment of like, I'm finally done, like sticking around, like being cautious.

[01:33:09] Like I was like, okay, I can like live again a little bit. And then I started surfing more after that. I wish I would've like brought a shorter board to ride. I brought a big. Eagle. And I couldn't quite handle it. But then after that, I started surfing and now it's fine. Like I'm back on a normal pattern of surfing, but that road trip was a blast.

[01:33:25] Like just to be able to camp in my van, getting out on the road after a year of just like, fuck depression session. You know, it was tough.

[01:33:34] Tyler: sounds like, uh, something for like a movie, you know, like sideways type of movie or something,

[01:33:41] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: You know, I think it's

[01:33:41] Tyler: you know,

[01:33:42] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: one thing that, you know, I, I've been good at for a long time and I love so much and did not be able to do it again. Like not by choice this time. And it was like, damn, like I miss the ocean. I miss that feeling of standing up and going fast. And, um, you know, originally I wanted to go to Peru, go back to [01:34:00] Chicago, but I'm still like not there yet.

[01:34:02] So I think me and my wife were, that's where we'd like to go finally on a surf trip would be somewhere like that, like where it's a non consequential wave. That's really fun.

[01:34:11] Tyler: think we should all do a trip there together. That seems

[01:34:13] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: recommend it. It's a fun plane. I went,

[01:34:16] Tyler: three, I spent three months there

[01:34:19] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Oh,

[01:34:20] Tyler: and. It's like the dreamiest wave. And now like, at the time I was riding, you know, shorter boards. So I'm like, now I'm like, Oh, I wish I could take my long fish and other things there, which is like so perfect for that wave.

[01:34:34] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: When I went, I had my little six foot Tomo and I loved that because I was in mode, but that's the first time I rode a nozzle, like skips eight, six nozzle. And I'm a little wave. I was going so fast and I'm like, Oh dude, like this would be the spot for that. And even a glider on the small

[01:34:49] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: Oh, glider. Can you imagine you

[01:34:52] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: you can take on the plane.

[01:34:53] Right. It's too big.

[01:34:54] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: it depends on the airline.

[01:34:56] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Can you get like a 10 footer down there?

[01:34:58] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: I just took a 10 footer to [01:35:00] Costa Rica on jet blue. Yeah.

[01:35:03] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: like a 10 foot Eagle down there.

[01:35:04] Tyler: you get the, the bisect, you know, Mike Becker's, you know, like bisecting that, you know, it's not like you're going to be missing out on performance on 11 foot glider, you know, like,

[01:35:15] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. You know, who's got one? This is crazy. Skip actually has an Eagle bisect.

[01:35:21] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: wow. Was it the Maury Pope system?

[01:35:23] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: yeah, it was, uh, I think Maury came by one year and Skip had an Eagle and he cut it in half and did the plastic with the metal bar that goes between the halves and you lock it with the carrying case and everything. And Skip still has it on his other side.

[01:35:38] And I'm like, that's that boy.

[01:35:39] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: take that next time. You take that. Yes, nag it.

[01:35:41] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: him that, maybe that's it. Maybe that's what I got to do. That's a great idea.

[01:35:45] Tyler: can do. That would be sick. How, how did you manage the depression then? Because I know, you know, all of us here have had that experience. With it. And I'm curious, like you had your experience in [01:36:00] the past with it, and then you were confronted with something pretty, pretty dramatic and, and, you know, how did you manage that?

[01:36:09] How did you find, ways to keep yourself from going down that slippery slope?

[01:36:15] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: So that, this is that same weird thing, right? Like, um, I think you go through things at certain times and you learn these lessons and that first time I had the depression was really gnarly and it was like, my life was falling apart, my marriage, everything, and going to that low and having that last, it'd be so long and so tough.

[01:36:35] Critical. I mean, it was like, you know, I could have killed myself at any time. It was really gnarly. And having gone through that, I think helped me when I had this other thing happen to not be so caught up in it. It was like, you know, I've survived. That was the worst I've ever survived. So when I was going through my thing, I'm like, this sucks, but I'm I'm here every day, I'm feeling okay.

[01:36:56] If this is the reality, I'll be okay. The, when the depression does come in. [01:37:00] The things that I learned were, you know, having that, uh, the gratitude for what I do have, and then being of service to others, you know, trying to be, make myself useful and it's, it's selfish really. Cause it's like you help others, but you're doing it for yourself.

[01:37:12] Cause you, you want to feel seen and heard and appreciated. So I think going through that heavy part of my life in 2014 to 2016, 17, really taught me like to get through this, like, you know what, it's going to be okay. Just do it. You've got to take it every day for what it is, and little victories, little defeats, but don't let it turn into that giant.

[01:37:34] You suck. I suck. My life sucks. It was like, no, man, it, it doesn't suck that bad. It's I'm okay. Like, I saw some people on that stroke floor that were messed up for life. Like, there was no recovery coming for them. And I was like, that could have been me. You know, that's, that's the heavy part for me. Like, it could have been way worse.

[01:37:52] And so I had to be like, I'm the lucky one. I'm talking normally, everything works. I'm out and about those poor people will never [01:38:00] walk normal again. And maybe never speak the same way. So I got off real lucky. And that to me is like, okay, I have everything to be grateful for. Not depressed. It was like, uh, you know, the other stuff I found was way worse than this.

[01:38:12] This was like, okay, it's a life hammer, but, um, I don't know. I really feel like I'm super grateful that I have all my capabilities back, you know, so, um, yeah.

[01:38:21] Tyler: And, and the GoFundMe, I think would, would be a great, like you had a GoFundMe. I

[01:38:27] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: That was so kind. Yeah, because it was like, uh, that blew me away because somebody started it for me and it just was like, I don't know if I was gonna be able to work. You know, we didn't know how bad it was going to be. And mostly it was just so many people reached out with just the kindest words, you know, and that stuff you read, you're like, like your intro to me.

[01:38:42] I was like, I've read the crowd. Knock it off. That's bullshit. And I'm reading these. Yeah. And it was a lot of really neat, old names, new people, people that barely met me that were, you know. Just writing the nicest words and that makes you realize like, holy smokes, [01:39:00] like it isn't the stuff that you have.

[01:39:03] It's, it's what you, how you make people feel, it's what you put out there. Right. And it's like, if I can share a story or someone asked me a question, you answer them with kindness, like pointing in the right direction for a surfboard or reconnecting with somebody on a trip or whatever. That's the stuff that matters.

[01:39:18] And you're broadening your friend group, even if it's virtually, like you're, you're helping people. And I think that to me, like showed me, man, you know, all the times you go, I don't own the house or I'm not going to get ahead. What is that? What does that even mean? You know what I mean? Like I was, I read all that shit.

[01:39:35] I'm like, dude, I'm like the richest guy ever. Like Scrooge, right? Like, all right, I have all these friends. It made me really like, it warmed the heart and helped me like mentally really get through that stuff. So, um, yeah, I was just, I felt. The whole experience was hard. It was gnarly, but I w I had so much great support and friendship and people.

[01:39:54] Saying those things that make me feel better. Um, yeah, I just felt this blast, you [01:40:00]know, lucky.

[01:40:01] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: I think for me, uh, personally, when I look at you, I feel like we have a lot in common. You know, you're like just 10 years ahead of me in terms of like some of our experiences with surfing. Like I also went to Nicaragua and was a boat captain for a surf game. Like there, there are kind of like keystone moments where I was just like 10 years behind you.

[01:40:23] Yeah. Having said all that, the thing that I identify with you the most, if I really

[01:40:30] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: yeah,

[01:40:31] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio:introspective, is the fact that you took your hardships and you used it as a reason to become a better person. And I don't think everybody does that. I think like, If, if I'm to get kind of nerdy for a second, if you've ever read a comic book,

[01:40:46] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: always.

[01:40:47] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: the, the, the, the origin story of the superhero and the supervillain is basically the same, right?

[01:40:56] And, and it's some shitty situation. And [01:41:00] it's a superhero that says something bad happened to me. And I'm going to try to make sure that other people don't feel that way. And the supervillain says something bad happened to me. Not going to make sure everybody else feels the same way that I did.

[01:41:15] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: right,

[01:41:16] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: And so I'm just kind of curious, what do you think it is about you that made you turn that hardship into, I just want to.

[01:41:28] Be a better person,

[01:41:29] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: I think,

[01:41:30] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: fucking good

[01:41:31] Tyler: question. Damn, it's cutting right to the heart.

[01:41:36] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Aren't you quality of a question for me?

[01:41:39] Tyler: Why you got to do this to me, man? It's not your fault. It's not your fault.

[01:41:46] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Um, it's, it's, it's interesting you phrase it that way cause it, for me, I think it goes back to my mom and that empathy type thing. Right? Like, uh, and having my brother is a special needs kind of guy. Like it's, you're sensitive to [01:42:00]things. You're sensitive to how people treat people. You're sensitive to a lot of stuff.

[01:42:03] And I'm a fucking oversensitive, crying sap. Like that's who I am. And I think, you know, You know, it's so easy to blame other shit and there's points in my life. I've fully blamed everything else or other people for it Whatever it was, you know, like what's wrong with them? Like you think that's how it is and then you learn What's my role in everything?

[01:42:21] Like what what's what's the whole picture? What's what's their perspective? What's my perspective? What's in the middle? That's maybe real And for me it was um, you know, the pain I went through was so shitty and so real I didn't want anyone else to feel they were alone if they were going through it.

[01:42:38] Cause I felt pretty alone and it was right at the time, maybe right when people started talking about, you know, that kind of stuff openly more or if you, you know, even when I was going through it, I had some, you know, friends that would say, toughen up fucking, you know, quit being a pussy. And you're like, Whoa, dude.

[01:42:54] Like, it's not, it's not sadness. It's depression, two different things. I'm not [01:43:00] sad that I lost my dog, I'm depressed that my life is crumbling around me and I don't know how to navigate. So I think what I wanted to do is more like put out like, hey, it's cool to talk about it. And Paul was actually one of the first dudes that showed me this really cool kindness.

[01:43:13] Like, he would read some stuff that I was going through and dude, the guy sent me a fucking slab of meat out of nowhere. Like that, yeah, what do you call it?

[01:43:20] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: man. From, uh, where was it? It was, uh

[01:43:23] Tyler: You're trying to give him a heart attack now? Like, come on! Like

[01:43:27] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: Sorry about your stroke, by the way. I'll take responsibility for that one.

[01:43:33] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: was like, I don't know where he asked for my address. I gave it to him. I thought maybe I'd get, I don't know, like some surf type thing. And dude, he sends me like this meal for me and my family. And just one of those little acts of kindness where I'm like, my wife was like, who is he?

[01:43:44] I'm like, I've never met him. Like we're friends through social media. And we connected over the depression thing, like getting through it. And it really was like, uh, there is those two parties, you know, I had some friends that were just, I couldn't be friends with them anymore. Cause it was like to them, everything [01:44:00] had to be like, toughen up and fuck you.

[01:44:01] I w I needed to be around people that were like, Hey dude, you're going to get through it. It's going to be okay. And that's what I wanted to then put out. Like I got through it and it was pretty dark. And I don't know when you're in it, how you see out of it, but when you finally do get out of it, you can look back at it.

[01:44:15] Tyler: Yeah,

[01:44:15] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: it's just like weird. You don't know when it's going to end. But when it does, you can finally go, Whoa, I was pretty dark. And the people that helped you by sending you food or a nice message, or you made yourself of service and they saw you and appreciated you. Those little things are what helps you claw out.

[01:44:33] And I just wanted people, I think when I share that stuff to like, Hey man, like we've all maybe gone through it. And some people talk about some don't, I wanted to talk about it. Cause it really affected my life. And, um, I think that's, that's what, you know, again, being friends with Paul, like that connected to us and some other people too.

[01:44:49] And, you know, for the people I lost because of sharing that, I, I, I'm okay with it. I feel like I gained a better friend in these newer people that actually understand what that was like [01:45:00]versus, you know, seeing it as a weakness or like calling you out because you're not macho enough or whatever the bullshit was, you know?

[01:45:05] Tyler: Well, for surfing, it's like, it's had such a toxic, toxic masculinity, you know, I know that it gets thrown around a lot, but it, it really was super toxic and you couldn't talk about feelings. You couldn't talk about things. And I think people like you and, and, uh, other surfers, you know, who, who have gone through depression and talking about it, normalizing it has made surfing a much better place and a much healthier place because of that.

[01:45:34] And, and I. I really appreciate it, you know, because it's it's yeah, like people and also it's like people don't know when they see you They think you're happy and nice you put on a brave face and you hide it really well and then you know and inside you're you're in so much pain like we I mean, we just lost a really great guy in our community to that and you just saw him and it was like Always a [01:46:00] cheerful, upbeat person.

[01:46:01] And you just don't know. And having that empathy allows people to talk about it and maybe prevents it from happening. And I think it's, you know, we've, we've seen like a lot of like surfers with head injuries, start talking about it. And, uh, other people who, who've, you know, in surfing world, maybe have gone through it and now are like more open about it.

[01:46:21] And I think that's really, uh, courageous and important.

[01:46:25] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. I hope everyone feels that way. It's weird how most, a lot of people don't, but I know there was a point where Bird was going through it as well. And we've had a few, we had a podcast about it and then we also talk about it sometimes in the videos, but it was, you know, it was heavy. He didn't get that till later in life, but then he was like, you know what, I've actually had this for a lot longer than I realized.

[01:46:45] Like I've had this. Darkness for a long time. And then you start, you know, once you know what that looks like, you start seeing in other people and you hear it when it comes up and you're like, are you all right, dude? You know, like you just become aware of it a lot more. And I think, um, [01:47:00] I grew up not knowing any of that.

[01:47:01] Like no one talked about it. Like it was straight up bite your lip and deal with it. And, um, you know, there's people who still think that's the right way to do it. And it's like, man, having, you know, Empathy and sensitivity towards things isn't a weakness at all. It's, it's actually a great strength to try and help others.

[01:47:19] It's just a, somehow, like you said, within surfing, there's this weird, I don't know what it is, man. Like a long time ago, they made a shirt that said surfer suck. And the worst, like it's been a long time that we know that surfers are some of the shittiest, selfish people. It's a trip. It's like, we're, we're in it.

[01:47:37] We're with them. And back in the old days, you always had to deal with it. Cause it's like, you're surfing other spots. So you have to play the politics. Like, right. That guy's the worst dude, but I got to, I want to surf here. So, Hey, what's up, bro. it was such a weird, toxic thing always. And now to talk about it, like some people don't like that, but that's the truth.

[01:47:55] Like, it's okay to level up and let people live their lives or help people live their lives [01:48:00] better and accept people for who they are and whatever they want to do. Like just because someone else gains, right. It doesn't mean you lose any. So it's like.

[01:48:07] Tyler: Yeah.

[01:48:08] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: When I see people get so impassioned about garbage, like nothing to get upset about, it's not affecting your life, but they feel so attacked.

[01:48:15] And I don't know, I guess that's a whole debate for another thing, but

[01:48:19] Tyler: I blame Jack London for creating the archetype of, of that machismo surfer. And it's just kind of filtered out throughout time. It's like, you look at someone like him, like his writing, the way he, Talked about surfing and then you see that archetype all throughout surf history from to Buzzy Trent and like, you know, Pat Current, you know, you see these, these guys who probably were going, had depression and probably tried to muscle through it and were miserable to other people because of it.

[01:48:49] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. My dad was no like surf guy like them. He was a body surfer and he was a diver, but you know, he went to, he surfed in Korea and you know, he was a boxer. He had all these different things and. Race car driver. [01:49:00] He was, you know, the world's interesting man, but it, you know, that it's weird. I don't even know if it's like the Jack Leonard thing.

[01:49:07] I think it's just men of those certain eras. You know, my dad was born in 31, raised by somebody that was born in like 1891. Like that guy, his dad was born like 1830. Like, so you're two people are removed from the fucking dark ages. All these men were even supposed to like navigate life with any empathy versus Hard work and fucking battling for whatever you got, right?

[01:49:30] I can forgive a lot of that because that's all they had as we got into the modern era of like, you know I was born in 1971 Things were still archaic but like moving forward But you know not nearly enough for these people their mentality was so shaped by generations of whatever We're only just now you know, some people call it woke or some people call it whatever but there's people allowed to feel what they feel and people are allowed to like You know, explore different feelings and things.

[01:49:58] That's so new. And I think that's why [01:50:00] so many people are scared of it. They like, that's familiar to us. And you're like, it's okay, man. Like we're evolving, right? Like, Oh,

[01:50:06] Tyler: It's okay. And it doesn't really affect you at all. You know, these things you're like, you're fine.

[01:50:13] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: your life will be just fine as you have. Like, I think so many people get caught up in like with media and all these things of like, if you just look at your circle and your bubble and what you love, If you didn't know any of this other stuff's going on, like the old days, it all was happening. We didn't know about it.

[01:50:29] We just lived.

[01:50:30] Tyler: Yeah. Right.

[01:50:31] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: I mean, I don't know about the Bay of Pigs. I didn't know about, you know, Nixon and Watergate. I just, just live in my little kid life. Like, and then as I got into like, okay, there's Reagan and all that, I didn't know about Iran Contra shit. You learn that later. And if you didn't watch the news every day, your life is so much better.

[01:50:48] Like you're just, your world is right out the window, you know?

[01:50:52] Tyler: man. Exactly.

[01:50:54] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. I think that's what that Tavaro trip going back to that. That's what was so beautiful. People were living in the moment, [01:51:00] every moment. And it just was, there was no outside stuff. It just was, if you're on, especially on a little tiny one acre island, like there's not much, this is your world.

[01:51:10] Tyler: And you got to deal with the people there and that's it. And you make a way to, to work it out with them instead of like

[01:51:16] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Right. And he did, he worked it out. Or you didn't love each other and you let it just, that's fine too.

[01:51:22] Tyler: Yeah. Um, you got any, any, any other things you want to ask? No, man. I think we hit it. We hit a lot. We've covered a lot of ground. Um,

[01:51:33] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: You got some editing to

[01:51:34] Tyler: one question I would love to ask then now is like.

[01:51:38] If you could go back, if you could go back in your whole history of surfboards, is there one board you would love to bring, resurrect from the dead

[01:51:46] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah, there's, I have one specific board, a hundred percent. I know. Um, it's weird that maybe there's categories, like there's longboard, shortboard, whatever, but if you were to be like, what's your best surfboard? Right. Um, Rich Pavel, Toby, he made me boards way [01:52:00] back in like 90 under his all access label. And then we reconnected again when I was at Transworld around like 2005 or something, he walked in and he's like, Ken, I'm like, Hey, what's up, Toby?

[01:52:10] And he's like, I made a board. I was thinking about you, like kind of how he is. And I was like, What are you thinking about me? I haven't seen you like in 10 years, you know, because there's a fish at moonlight with like, I want you to have it. Like, I'm all really want to give it to you. So I go to moonlight.

[01:52:25] I talked to Peter and he goes, Toby said, what I'm like, yeah, he's all, I don't know, like, kind of like us,

[01:52:31] Tyler: You got to pay me for the glass here at

[01:52:33] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: I had to pay him for the glass job, I owed him 300. And so I had him do this cool glass job. It was a neat little six foot fish, hard down rail nose to tail, which is totally unlike anything I've ever ridden.

[01:52:45] And, um, you know, single concave, geppy, uh, slant backs, not sweat backs, but slant backs is this six foot fish. And I was like, this is funky, but I'm into it. Like I was writing different boards and that hands down [01:53:00] is the best surfboard I ever had. Like 10 foot cliffs, two foot cliffs everywhere. I could do anything like almost like shortboard.

[01:53:07] Like I would do like square turns on it. I can hit the lip on it. I could do the biggest turndowns. I'd never surf better on a weird shape board. And it was magic every time I surfed it and I sold it when it right before I got divorced for like 500 bucks. I, I have one photo of it. It has like red Bradley Buben kind of pulls on the bottom and then like on the deck clear deck.

[01:53:29] But if I could ever get that board back, Oh my God, that was, it was so good. I templated it. And I, when I was trying to shape a board, one time I had cut out the outline, I got divorced. I put that thing up in the racks and it was in my mom's attic for 12 years. It's get finished it a couple of years ago.

[01:53:46] So there's this one weird skip that I had just sold on my website, green Toby outline, but skip finished it. And it was the kind, yeah, it's up at, um, corner pizza in Encinitas. Now the guy bought it. But that was the board. If you had [01:54:00] asked me, I swear, I've had a lot of great ones, a lot of fries. It's weird to say that it was a Toby and it was the best surfboard I ever had. Yeah.

[01:54:09] Tyler: that. Ken, really appreciate you coming on. That was so much fun and, uh, really appreciate it. Where can our listeners, uh, find you? Dude, I mean, shit, hold on. We didn't even talk about like your Rusty project you're doing or some of these other things, but

[01:54:25] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: want to catch on it. We can, but I don't, you got to edit this down maybe.

[01:54:28] Tyler: let's, let's, we'll leave it for another time.

[01:54:31] When it come, when you come out with it in the meantime, where can all our listeners find you and get, you know, boards, gear, skate gear, whatever it is. Where can they find you?

[01:54:40] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: Yeah. The surfboard rack. com. That's my project that I'm doing now. And that's the one that we talked about. It has the media and old surfboards and photos. So that's where you can hit me anytime. Um, that's also on Instagram at the surfboard rack or at hanger 18, uh, on Instagram as well. So either one of those, I'm, I'm on there all the time doing stuff.

[01:54:58] So

[01:54:59] Tyler: Yeah. [01:55:00] Listeners, please like bombard him with messages. He's always has time and he's happy to ask questions, answer questions. And, uh, you know, really can. Thank you so much for just being awesome. Like we just, We really just like, uh, you know, I don't know you too well, but I feel like I do because of social media and everything.

[01:55:20] And I just, you always inspire and you always put out positive and, you know, positive vibes on your social and it's, um, it's appreciated. And, uh, and I know I'm not the only one that feels that way. Oh, for sure.

[01:55:33] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: guys. That means a lot to me. Cause it, you know, what's really neat too, is the New York connection. Like, I feel like I've met more rad dudes in New York. All you guys who have this whole different perspective of surfing that feels so good to me. And it's funny. Cause like I get a lot of people ask me questions about stuff out there, but I'm also like, I want your enthusiasm.

[01:55:52] I want your stoke that you guys have, like, maybe we're jaded out here. I don't know. But everyone I've met from New York that I've talked to has been so fond of [01:56:00] wrap out with surfboards and knowledge. And yeah,

[01:56:02] Tyler: we have no waves. So we have to put that energy somewhere, you know, and to keep us excited. So, you know, the, the, the, the lack of waves helps create that wanting and that, uh, you know, enthusiasm, I think.

[01:56:16] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: maybe that's it. Maybe it's the water. I always hear that about the pizza. It's water,

[01:56:20] Tyler: the bagels, it's the water,

[01:56:21] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: but I don't know.

[01:56:22] Tyler: know, whatever. And we can't wait till we get you out here one

[01:56:25] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: I got to get out there. I I've been talking about it for

[01:56:27] Tyler: for the fish fry or something would be really great. You know,

[01:56:31] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: we've got a, we've got a guest bedroom. You can stay in.

[01:56:33] Tyler: Yeah. And now you got one

[01:56:34] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: it your best time? Like September? That's like, that's when I should

[01:56:36] Tyler: September is the time it is warm water, heaps of waves. Um, you know, crowds have kind of, you know, It's somewhat mellowed out. It's gotten a little bit more.

[01:56:46] If you're

[01:56:46] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--61fc20480e72b000787c6240--swellseasonsurfradio: super into wearing five mils with gloves and booties, then February is also a good time. It's way less crowded. September.

[01:56:53] Tyler: September October is a good time. There's stuff going on. The city is alive. You got [01:57:00] Fashion Week happening and all these other things. So

[01:57:03] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: September on a long island with you guys at one of those weird little beach break things with the stuff jetties and shit. Like, that's all I want. Like,

[01:57:09] Tyler: We'll, we'll do like a live q and a, a pilgrim. It'll be great, you know? Oh yeah.

[01:57:13] 2024-08-07--t07-00-29pm--guest883575--ken: dude, yeah. I like Chris a lot. That's a good dude. I like him a lot. So, that would be fun. Okay. Well, let's keep that door open for September hangout.

[01:57:21] Tyler: You sounds good, man. I love it. Well, listeners, uh, thank you all for listening. We really are so stoked. Paul. I'm love this. I think we gotta do this more. Yeah, this is super fun. You know, I think we, we compliment each other very nicely. , what'd you think? Finley, over there it is. Where you got, got the approval from the, the gen ZR there.

[01:57:40] So we're good. . Um. But yeah, super excited. And listeners don't forget to check out Swell Season Surf at Swell Season Surf Radio on Instagram. And of course our website, SwellSeasonSurfRadio. com. And, uh, we'll check you all down the line soon.. [01:58:00]