Ceibo with Lucy Small & Maddie Meddings

Tyler: Hello and welcome to the Swell Season Surf podcast. I'm your host, Tyler Brewer, leading Australian gender equality advocate and professional surfer. Lucy. Small and brilliant UK filmmaker, [00:02:00] Maddie Mattings are following in an incredible lineage of partner filmmakers in surfing. Think McGilvery and Freeman McCoy and who, Kidman and Frank. It's a heavy list to be joining and their latest film. Sebo is a powerful film that offers an intimate look at the lives of women who are shaping the future of Ecuador's Lands and Waters following surfer activist patch of Light as she rediscovers who e her Ecuadorian heritage and explores the intersection of women's rights, environmental activism, and surfing in Ecuador. The film is masterfully shot and very well edited with an engaging multi-layer story that follows a personal journey that is representative of a larger movement to rediscover indigenous practices and cultures and learn to live in harmony with nature as opposed to it. The film is set to [00:03:00] premiere nationally in Australia next month, and I am so freaking stoked to be welcoming Back to the show, Lucy.

Small and Mad Meting. Welcome guys.

Lucy Small: Thanks Tyler. Thanks for having us.

Tyler: My pleasure.

Maddie Meddings: welled up.

Tyler: Oh, did you get a little, a Clem Terry

Maddie Meddings: Yeah.

Tyler: pil? Like, yeah, someone kind of gets it.

Maddie Meddings: So nice to hear someone talk about it because, so nobody's really seen it yet, so it is just, yeah, I've had a long week of finishing it.

Tyler: Well, you've done a great job. Like I, I absolutely loved it. One, like, you know, from your last film, uh, you could see like, even like just improvements. The editing is really slick, really smooth. The cinematography is absolutely stunning. And the storytelling. I thought was really nicely done. And, um, you know, you [00:04:00] use, uh, Patcha, uh, light, who is this, uh, free surfer, professional free surfer rides for Patagonia and uh, is, uh, has Ecuadorian ancestry, her father's from there. And it's this, I thought a wonderful journey using her as this vehicle to tell this larger story here. And I'm curious, like, first, like how did the, the obvious question is how did this project come about? How did you guys connect with Patcha over this and, and what was like the development process for this film?

Maddie Meddings: I feel like you, that you guys had the.

Lucy Small: Yeah, so Maddy and I, after we finished our last film, Yammer, um, that was like the first kind of long form project that either of us had done. And so we just both learned so much doing it. And pretty much as soon as we put that out, we just went, okay, what are we doing next? Let's do another [00:05:00] project. And I had connected with Pata, um, and been following some of her journey online and she'd been sharing a bit of what she had been, um, going through, like being back in Ecuador.

And, um, she called it, she was on her eternal quest for identity. And I thought that was a really interesting, just an interesting story. My ears pricked up when I, I heard that. So I actually met in person at a screening and we, um, we talked about. Possibly doing a, um, project together. And then, um, yeah, mad and I decided that it sounded really good and let's try and do it.

And so Patcher was up for it and we just, um, started planning it pretty much. And yeah, we like the, the idea was to share some of Patch's story, but also to, yeah, share the bigger story of around Ecuador and to showcase this beautiful little country in South America. Um, [00:06:00] and yeah, just wanting to kind of lean on the idea of having people from the place that you are filming in be the ones that, um, share the story of that place.

So working in those stories along the way. And it, um, ended up being that they were really the major part, like of, of the actual whole film. So, um, yeah, that was kind of how it started.

Tyler: It's, yeah. Well, I love it. It is like, um. I love that this film has this multi-layer approach, right? Like it's, it's, it's this great storytelling where you have this coming of age or, or even like, just more of like an awakening for patch, I think. And it's like her, this narrative of her like kind of like rediscovering her heritage, her history, her connection to indigenous culture there. But it's also this story about, it's kind of a damning story and I use it almost like as a, it's [00:07:00] a, like Ecuador is just, this vehicle for Ecuador has all these climates and all these different, you know, kind of, uh, ranges. Like it could be winter, you know, like they have snow, they have uh, they have sky forests, they have jungle, they have beach, they even have desert.

Like they have a wide range of ecology. And it tell, it's like almost a damning account of capitalism and how it. Takes advantage of all these natural resources. And it's about like the, I feel like these indigenous cultures that are trying to protect their environments and, and fight what's coming in and like Patch is kind of like this great little representation of that to tell that story and bring you on all these different journeys, I guess.

Uh, was that kind of the, were you intentional with that, uh, in the process of making this or did it evolve more into that?

Maddie Meddings: I think we kind of, um, we, we both sort of initially said like when [00:08:00] we were talking about what film we wanted to make, like make next, I. I think we spoke about it and I kind of said like, I really feel like whatever we do next, I want it to be around the climate. And, um, you know, that feels like such a pressing issue and something that we're all really passionate about.

And so it felt like that was really important. And also because it, and then as soon as we landed on Ecuador, we were like, well, that, you know, you, you have to talk about the climate when you talk about Ecuador because it's such a massive part of the, of the culture there is the way that they protect nature, but also the way that, you know, there is so much extraction happening or trying to happen and it just feels really prevalent when you're there.

Um, so yeah, I, I think it evolved. I think once we kind of, we focused on the people that we were gonna meet and then through them, the kind of issues that they were facing. And so that's kind of how we chose the different things that we were gonna talk about. But, um, but yeah, [00:09:00] it's kind, it was always gonna sort of have that undertone, I think.

Tyler: What, what surprised you most about Ecuador going there?

Lucy Small: Ooh, Ecuador is like, I mean, it was all surprising. It was like, I just had no idea how beautiful, like, it just blew my mind. Every location that we were in, it was like unbelievable that this is so beautiful. The Galapagos Islands was just like, I mean, it's like another planet there. It's amazing. Um, but in terms of the issues, like the thing that I has was really shocking for me was to find out that so many, so ma, so much of the extraction that's happening, like these mining licenses that are being granted to big international companies to mine on indigenous lands are Australian companies.

And I just felt like there was this [00:10:00] great irony that, um, you know, Pacha, she was born in the Andes and her, um, mom still has this house that she owns the land in this forest in the mountains, that she still owns it to conserve it. And that whole area has a mining license that's been granted to an Australian mining company.

It's just felt like there's, are you kidding me? It's the same old cats that we're dealing with over here, but over there. And I, yeah, I really hope that comes through to the audiences in Australia who watch it, that watch. You know, it's, it's a systems comment, I guess to, to understand that what we're fighting here, people are fighting there, so we've gotta kind of work in solidarity on that.

Um, but yeah, the whole of Ecuador was full of surprises. What about you, Mads? What did you feel was surprising?

Maddie Meddings: I think the kind of, just the amount of life that was there was kind of really shocking [00:11:00] because in, like in the uk we, we obviously have, you know, we have beautiful landscapes and, and, um, uh. Habitats and things, but we don't have those that like, that many animals and we don't have that much. It's just the, the, the, like the sheer amount of life.

Like we, when we first went to Intact, we went on this walk down to a waterfall, and then when we walked to Patch's house as well and there was trees covered in moss with something growing on them. And then there's something growing on that. And then there's also like loads of bugs that are living on that thing.

And it, and it's, you can look at any kind of like square meter and there are hundreds of different, like Flo and Fauna there. And it's just, it was amazing. And I, I think it made, it really hit home for me that, um, I was thinking about it the other day because Cornwall, where I live is, uh, they, we have lithium here.

Um, and it's just in the process of they're talking about extracting it and um, people are kind of obviously kicking off about it [00:12:00] and, and, and it's a real. Interesting thing to think about because on the one hand you're like, yeah, not here. Like, don't do it in our beautiful landscapes. But then if it's not here, then it's there.

And it's like, what's more important? Those habitats that are so full of life or the ones that we already decimated a thousand years ago. And it kind of, yeah, it, it does, it puts a lot of things into perspective and it, and it makes you think like, you know, the future's going a certain way. We are gonna have to kind of, especially, you know, patch talks about electric cars and the different extractive minerals that we need to make them.

And it feels like an important step, but we just really have to consider like where that is gonna come from and, you know, maybe be a bit more accepting of things going on in our own shores. We, you know, it's just, yeah, it's a challenge.

Tyler: it, it's really challenging, uh, because of, I. I think it's like my, it was interesting, I was [00:13:00] talking to my nephew who lives in London by the way, and we were talking about like how, oh, we're damn this whole everything going to electric cars, but to try to help the environment, but actually we might be doing more harm.

You know, like we, we were saying, oh, we need these materials to transition, but do we, or should we just be making what we have more efficient and better and last longer and not break down and you know, like this whole like drive for electric vehicles and to be, you know, carbon neutral, but at the same time, like you're almost like doing worse harms. It's like such a weird contrast. And Ecuador seems to be like kind of a place that has been constantly, uh, profited off of for their energy,

you know, uh, like whether it's, uh. These rare earth minerals or oil, you know, which they have real issues there too. Like you discussed in the film, the oil spills that have happened, um, where these [00:14:00] people can't drink their natural water anymore. Uh, it's, it's, yeah, it's weird. It's the really disheartening to see that process says,

Maddie Meddings: Yeah. You see it

Lucy Small: I think it's um oh.

Maddie Meddings: no, that's all right. You can't, I feel like after being there, I'm almost like, it's like this amazing, like fortress and people are constantly kind of be like, gimme a bit of that, and they're like, no, leave us alone. It's just so greedy.

Tyler: we, what I find interesting about Ecuador is they have almost like this. They have a template for preserving nature in the Galapagos, which you highlight 

in the film. Like they're, they're very protective of it. And you would think that would be applied to other parts of the country, you know? Uh, because they have the know-how.

They have, they, it sounded like, like you even talked about in the film, like [00:15:00] the, or one of your, one of your subjects in the film discussed like how, you know, it took a while, trial and error to come up with the right protocols for everything. So I find that to be kind of maddening, where like, it exists, it's there, it just needs to be applied.

Maddie Meddings: Yeah. They,

Lucy Small: Yeah, I think it's like,

Maddie Meddings: sorry, you keep interrupting each other, you go.

Lucy Small: I was guys are too I think, uh, um, they like, it's these, because like I think it's 75% of all of Ecuadors, um, minerals are, or what they call resources are exported. So it's these huge foreign companies that come in to do this. Like there are, there are state owned, um, Ecuadorian mining companies, but the bulk of the extraction is done by Canadian. Australian austral Chinese companies. So it's almost like nature laws are no match for [00:16:00] that kind of money, you know? And, and it's so sad because it's just all resources going to the global north, and, but the people in Ecuador, like indigenous communities are the ones that are paying the price for it. Um, and yeah, it's, it's so frustrating and, and what you were saying before about, um, you know, the, the problems still being carried on, carried on, um, as we move into electric vehicles and that kind of thing, and it, that just shows that it's a systems problem, isn't it?

Because we're using the same system of like neoliberal, like highly neoliberal capitalism to try and protect the planet, and it's not solving all of the problems that have come with that system. So, you know, like. All that extractive culture of, um, fossil fuels has done, has been absolutely terrible for indigenous communities and lands everywhere.

And so we are just trying to use, these big companies are trying to [00:17:00] use the, the same model to solve the climate crisis, but it just comes with the exact, the same set of problems. Um, so yeah, really frustrating. Um, but also very inspiring learning from people you know, about what, like there are solutions there and that makes you, that is kind of empowering 'cause it makes you feel like, hey, well we just need to work towards trying to get them.

Tyler: Well, it's like you, you guys cover the, the Yuri army, uh, the Kita women who are, you know, organizing themselves to defend their territories from the mining and everything. Like what was, what was that experience like in meeting them? Like you had to go into the rainforest, which is, uh, I'm, I'm familiar with those types of journeys.

It's a long trip, you know, or tends to be. And, and I'm curious like how that experience shaped how you view, uh, resistance.

Maddie Meddings: So we, we actually didn't, um, we didn't meet the [00:18:00] Yori Wami, but we met Elizabeth who No, that's okay. We featured the film. So, um, but they actually, they were really sweet and they just gave us a bunch of their footage, um, because Elizabeth is related to them and she lives up river from them. Um, and she, uh, she was just, she said they were just really, really inspiring and um, she kind of feels like she gets a lot of strength, like from seeing them kind of be activists out there and, um, protect.

And I think that she probably. It's really helpful because she's on her own mission to kind of, there's, there's a lot of things that she's doing. Like she's, she's trying to, um, she's got a lot of projects on the go, so one of them is trying to buy up a lot of the land around her so that her, 'cause her family members are under a lot of pressure because they're being offered a lot of money to sell the land.

And obviously, like in modern society, like it's, it is important for 'em to have money. They do need it. Um, they can't just [00:19:00] live sort of semi nomadically like they might have done before, but she can't, you know, she hasn't got the money to buy all of that land and they understand the issues of selling it to corporations, but also it's a life changing amount of money.

Like they're put in a, a really hard place. And so I think for her, like having people close by who are also fighting. Is probably just amazing for her to, you know, her resilience and for enable her to just continue to keep working at it. And, you know, they also have a good platform and, um, they're, they're being heard so as well.

So I think that, you know, all of it is good. The more voices kind of talking about it, the better. But yeah, I wish we could have met them, but we didn't.

Tyler: Well, it's, it's interesting like how Ecuador has this, um, this history of, of women's rights as well. Like it was, um, you know, uh, one of the first countries in South America to grant women the right to vote. And, and [00:20:00] the women were very active in, in their suffrage, you know, in trying to get the, the right to vote.

And, you know, and it, it's, it has a culture of very strong women, I think. And I think that's what's, you know, fuels some of this, fuels some of the protection that, that we got to see in this incredible film. Like the, the different key figures that, that you highlighted, um, how these, the, the people you highlight in this film, I'm curious like how you, um, how you got connected.

Was it all through Patcha or did you, I. Have other people connect you with them? Like how did, how did those connections come about and, and how did they develop for to be able to be participate in the film

Lucy Small: They're, they're pretty much all people that Patrick knows really. Um, so we didn't have, we, it wasn't like we created a narrative that they, we then wanted to find people to fit that narrative or anything like that. We [00:21:00] basically, um, wanted to have people in it who were gonna be sharing the story from these stories, from these locations.

And Patrick just had some ideas and then, um, so we connected with them before we went on the trip and, um, and just built the story, the narrative from them. And yeah, it was really, um, like, we obviously wanted to explore the, the women's rights elements of it, but we, we kind of just let that, let that sort of like flow naturally.

Like we were not necessarily actively going. We need to tell this story about like a women's history of Ecuador or anything like that. But it, it, it ended up coming through so strong because, um, everybody talked about it so much and, um, it became a really, it became a really important thread throughout the film.

And, um, that's like the beauty of having like an all girl team and just having [00:22:00] all women on screen and it ends up having that really, um, that really strong feminist aspect to the, to the story that ended ends up coming across so that.

Tyler: It, it really does, and the only thing that was very jarring for me was hearing patcha like, speak perfectly beautiful Spanish and then go into an Australian accent. It's like, my past experiences, I've, I've, I've, I've, I was in Ecuador like 20 something years ago. I remember meeting this, this woman, this Australian woman, and the way she spoke Spanish. Was like how she spoke Australian and it was amazing. Like she's listening to someone instead of being like, oh yeah, oh yeah.

She's like, oh, see. Oh, see mate. was [00:23:00] really weird. So, so, then to see patchett like go like beautiful Spanish and then be like, oh yeah, well we gonna be here. Like, it was like, whoa.

Lucy Small: I think Pat has, Pacha has the fortunate thing that she spoke if she didn't grow up speaking Spanish, but she spoke Spanish first. So she lived in Ecuador until she was about four and then moved back to Australia and kind of like went back and a few times during her childhood. So I feel that that gives her an, an edge on the accent

Tyler: Yeah.

Maddie Meddings: does her mouth.

Lucy Small: words she spoken before.

Maddie Meddings: Yeah, mouth forms. Like when you are, um, in between, like, I think, I'm gonna completely butcher this, but I feel like it's up to the age of five. Like your mouth is still forming certain, like shapes depending on what language you speak. So she literally would have a benefit from the fact that muscle memory's there.

yeah.

And even structure stuff, the way your [00:24:00] tongue moves, this is like a level English coming in.

Tyler: ah,

Maddie Meddings: Some people will never really be able to kind of get certain language sounds because they just. They just physiologically can't.

Lucy Small: ah,

Tyler: people can't roll the r you know, the

Lucy Small: yeah.

Tyler: type of thing if you didn't do it from a young age and that sort of stuff, you know? For sure. I could totally see that. But yeah, it was funny like seeing that, I was like, wait, oh, cognizant di dissonance here, you know? But it,

Lucy Small: Well, I hope you didn't mind the Australian accent on the voiceover because that's like,

that's been, that's been a historical battle of mine being doing the voiceover and going, Maddie, I hate it.

Tyler: No, your voiceover's great. Your voiceover's fine. It was just the, the going from the fluent Spanish into the English that was like jarring. Yeah. But, but you, you have a lovely voice and it works very well. [00:25:00] So you keep narrating please.

Maddie Meddings: I just forget

Lucy Small: thank you.

Maddie Meddings: Australian really like, because I've listened to it so much and I'm so used to it now, and then I, I can't who it was the other day that I sort of, oh, the sound designer. She just kept doing an Aussie accent. When we were, when we were having our like final movie. I was like, oh yeah, they

Tyler: Oh yeah. How you going? It's going great. hell. Any excuse I can use my, my, my bad Australian accent. I'll take

Lucy Small: Yeah, Maddie was doing that on the trip too. Oh yeah. Falling into it. good, pretty good Aussie accent, Matt.

Maddie Meddings: I would say it [00:26:00] British.

Tyler: I, that British out there. British, you are right. You are right. like a papa? Have you ever seen the, the trip with Steve Coogan where him and his comedian buddy, they go on like a, a trip around the UK to eating at restaurants and all they do are accents the whole time. And my favorite is the Michael Kane one.

It was like, I'm Michael Kane.

Shay was only 16, and they're just constantly going like, is him. When he gets a little bit older, he talks a little slower and with a little bit more a bring me along on the next trip for comedic re you know, relief.

Lucy Small: I feel like [00:27:00] we had, we had a lot of comedic relief on the trip. Who, who is the comedian? Who's the comedian on the on in the crew?

um, I feel like everyone's got our own comedic value. Patcher is like incredibly silly. is like, because we're, she's like, she was 22, she's a lot younger than us, so we were like the, you know, she's like on TikTok doing her TikTok videos and like, I'm just in the background, like the, the grumpy, the grumpy mom that's like, why are we doing.

Tyler: I will not do your dance on TikTok.

Maddie Meddings: By the,

Lucy Small: yeah, she, she wore me down,

Tyler: She wore you down and got you to boogie down.

Lucy Small: but the entire trip was very, yeah, [00:28:00] we had a lot of really good laughs. Like the BTS footage is so silly.

Maddie Meddings: there Where is there gonna be an outtake video?

there? Well, yeah,

Lucy Small: yeah.

Maddie Meddings: yeah, there was, um, there was, uh, in the Galapagos, there's obviously the sea lions, and they

Tyler: Yes.

Maddie Meddings: do the, they do the like, wait, what's the noise again? Uh.

Tyler: So like that. Ah, oh, they sound like Jim Carrey and Dumb and Dumber. Want to hear the most annoying sound? Ah.

Maddie Meddings: Um, and, but all different, like, you know, all different ranges and different pictures and it was so funny and it, we just couldn't get over it. Like, Carolina's obviously who lives there and is so used to it, like, yeah, yeah, they're funny, aren't they? But we were just constantly doing impressions of them and [00:29:00] just.

Tyler: I wanna see, like, I wanna see you guys like meet up again for the first time. 'cause I'm sure it'll be like, ah, like that'll be like your inside joke for you, for you guys.

Lucy Small: And we were, we, we spent so much time together and we were just like on our flow together so much that we sort of like, we were doing these funny things of forgetting that like there's other people around. And we went, the one day we went out to this big rock offshore in the, well, we're in the Galapagos and um, we all went like diving and snorkeling and stuff and got to get all the shark footage and all that beautiful stuff.

But when we, okay, we're coming back on the boat, we were just all flopping around on the floor of this dive boat imitating the sea lions rolling around and, and all the other people that are on the diet trip are just like standing there.

Tyler: Doing the dead fish. I love doing the dead [00:30:00] fish, you know.

Lucy Small: Are these, are these grown women? Okay.

Maddie Meddings: It's, oh my god, it so sorry. Because Patch is like famous in Ecuador. Like everyone knows her. Especially on the coast. Yeah, yeah. Um, and so it was just so funny that we were just being so silly. I mean, it's great. It's testament to her because she was like not afraid to just be so silly all the time. It was amazing.

Tyler: She's so cool. Are you kidding? She's so cool. Like, I've been such a big fan of hers for, for the past couple years of like, oh, she's gonna be fucking awesome and I love the direction she's gone in. I'm curious then, like this is a very personal journey for her as well, and I'm curious like how it was filming her and, and being with [00:31:00] her during some of the more, uh, emotional sections too.

'cause she, you know, she's revisiting, uh, a place where her father had lived for, for most of her life actually. And she's coming to terms with the fact that, uh, you know, spoiler alert, like he, he had passed away and, you know, and she's come to terms with that. And I was curious like how that was for, for you guys to, to be with her and to be filming that and, and including that part of the story.

Maddie Meddings: I, I think it was, um, it was. It kind of, that part actually happened. We weren't sure if we were gonna be able to go up there because there had been, um, some trouble with, uh, um, the, like it actually been raided, um, by the Where her father, he had like a reserve, right?

reserve. Yeah. And so her cousins, I think are actually trying to, they're [00:32:00] doing like, um, business management degrees so that they, that I think with a hope to then take it on and get it back to kind of what it was before.

Um, where they kind of have volunteers there and they get people training and looking after the land. But it wasn't in that, it wasn't there, like when we were there, it was kind of closed off. Nobody was living there or anything. Um. We really weren't sure whether we were gonna be able to go up there. And then we had breakfast with our family, got to meet everyone, and um, and then all of a sudden it was like, okay, we can go, let's go now.

And so it all, and then it just, it just felt like it snowballed but in a really kind of amazing way where that, that footage of Patcher where she's talking about her dad was just so off the cuff. Like we hadn't, we hadn't, we had thought we might do an interview there, but we hadn't really planned for what we were gonna say and all of that stuff.

And so, um, we very much were just kind of in the moment with it and, and it ended up being, I think, well it's definitely mine. I [00:33:00] think Lucy, probably same for you. Like my favorite interview from the whole with Pacha from the whole film. 'cause it is such an insight into just the complicated grief that she has had to go through and, you know, just.

What you can see her struggling to comprehend the, that he's not there anymore and that she, you know, never really got the answers that she maybe would've wanted and, and never got to have that relationship with him that she, you know, in a more consistent and intimate way. And yeah, it was, it's, it was great.

It was like, you know, a gift for us that she felt comfortable enough to open up to us like that. Um, and yeah, I think it comes across good. Well, like, you know, you get real insight into her in the film. I think from that bit.

Tyler: well, it's a testament to you guys, you know, and, and creating a, [00:34:00] a safe enough environment for her to, to be able to open up like that. I think that's really important. And I think it added, it added what you needed for the film. You know, I think it added this more personal layer that I think, honestly, a lot of surf movies don't. Really explore and, and, and talk about or go, go there, you know? And, uh, it was really, uh, for me, like that was a real defining point in the film and I really meant a lot as a viewer that, that she was willing to open up a, a bit about it and to discuss it and, you know, use it as inspiration too, as well, you know?

And I think like that, I don't know if this trip or, or anything has, has given her closure on it, but it, it, it, it feels like it was a good way for her to kind of heal, I guess.

Maddie Meddings: Yeah.

Lucy Small: Yeah, [00:35:00] definitely. Um, like it, I got got such a sense from her, um, that in dealing with the loss of her dad, like the, what has come out of it is that she's gained this, this second home of Ecuador. Like she's gained Ecuador and she's gained that side of her identity. And so I feel like. I mean, as she says, like it, it's actually in dealing with that complex grief, she's actually, it's also empowered her, um, because she's kind of this part of who she is that she didn't really know growing up in Australia, she now is able to fully embrace and be, and be part of Ecuador and surf on that Ecuadorian surf team and, and get, you know, this whole community and all of her, yeah, her cousins and her extended family.

And it's like she, yeah, she's actually, and like did really get this sense for her, from her that it feels like she's got [00:36:00] so much to celebrate now as well. Um, and yeah, that interview up at the, at Sarah Ecco at her father's house, it was, um, I mean, for me doing, doing the interviewing, I was just thinking like, oh my God.

I mean, for all the interviews actually watching the film back, I'm, I'm just going. I can't believe I was there asking those questions.

Tyler: That's how I feel. A lot of times I'm like, did I ask that? Good

question. Oh, pat yourself on the back, Lucy, right? Like.

Lucy Small: I mean, the questions we, we, Maddie and I were quite collaborative and Paty also contributed to the interview questions and that kind of thing. But yeah, the one, the one that up at, at her dad's reserve was quite spontaneous and, um, and it, yeah, it ended up like really being the heart of the film in a way.

Like, it, it's kind of what, um, brings so much of it together and, and really answers the question of like, you know, why are we [00:37:00] there? And, um, yeah, it was, it was a really, it just felt like such a privilege to be in that space and, and have that kind of honesty from Patra and, um, and the whole thing for her to just share everything in Ecuador and be so open, it felt like in feel really, really grateful for that.

Definitely.

Tyler: It, it felt like a bit of a hero's journey for me, for her, you know, like she's, you know, she talks about how she lost like motivation. She, She, experienced a lot of loss. You know, you guys kind of talk a touch on this in the film. Like, she experienced a lot of loss in a relatively short period of time. Loses her father, loses her sponsor, loses her drive to surf, to competitively surf at least. And, and that professional life even was kind of something she started to put in the back of her head a little bit. And going back to Ecuador and, you know, [00:38:00] re, you know, especially after her father passing and rediscovering her roots, has like this kind of. Some, some sort of hero's journey feeling to me like it's like this overcoming and also learning, like visiting all of these people on this trip is like impart, imparting knowledge to her as well

to do something with it. And that's, that's what I think is, is quite exciting and, and hopefully and hopeful, uh, coming out of this film.

Maddie Meddings: Yeah, definitely. I think I, yeah, I think so. I hope so. Like, it seems like she was so excited to, throughout the whole trip, to kind of show us, not only like show us everything, but it was, it was, I. I think it was nice for her to kind of do all these experiences that she's done, you know, before that, or people that she knows, um, but then see it through the eyes of like, us too and kind of see how we approach it and what, [00:39:00] um, you know, what questions we are asking and things like that.

And one really interesting part was when we went to the Amazon to meet Elizabeth because she was the only person that Patch hadn't met before. And, um, and you could tell that she was just soaking it all in. Like Elizabeth was also just so knowledgeable and so interesting and so fun that like everyone was, but um, yeah, so, so she, you could kind of tell that I think she took a lot from that visit, especially, um, and learn a lot from it and, yeah.

Yeah, it's exciting. It's, it's just crazy. Like see where she goes now?

Tyler: well, it's, it's, there's something comforting about meeting distant relatives Also, I find like, there, like I, I just came back from, from being in Germany and my, my father's from there, and so I have lots of family there. Like these are like distant cousins and whatnot who I barely know. But when you get there and you see these people [00:40:00] like, I don't know about you, but like seeing like. That, you know, distant relatives, but you still feel connected. And I imagine she must have felt like this sense of home that she had maybe never felt in Australia, you know, as, and then she kind of touches on that, like growing up kind of, you know, of, of like a mixed race and Australia and, and not always feeling like you fully belong there, you know?

Uh, I imagine this must have been quite a, yeah. A comforting experience for her too.

Maddie Meddings: Yeah. Yeah.

Tyler: Did

Lucy Small: Yeah, I think so. reflect on that at all? Like off screen, like kind of, uh, before off camera? Like was she very reflective on that, on this whole

Tyler: process, in that way?

Maddie Meddings: Yeah, definitely. She told us some pretty full on stuff about, um, her experience being mixed race in Australia as a kid and, you know, yeah. It's

Lucy Small: as a surfer. Yeah.

Maddie Meddings: a surfer. Yeah. Um, [00:41:00] yeah, a lot of people sort of, yeah. Yeah. It, it sounded like it was really, really difficult at times. Um, and there, and there is, there's, you know, there's racism in, in Ecuador too.

There's one of the regions that we went to, uh, was Esmeralda, which is up in the north. And, um, we sort of talk about the fact that a lot of the community there is, um. Like have African heritage because it was a community that was, um, that came about from a slave ship running a ground and then people kind of,

Tyler: this is Mompiche, right? 

Kind of

Maddie Meddings: Yeah. And because a lot of the people up there a much like darker skinned, then there's a, there is a lot of, they get a lot less sort of opportunities and a lot less, um, seems like less money kind of goes into that area. And, um, and yeah, and we didn't, you know, we didn't actually see it or experience it when we were there, but we patch relayed to us a [00:42:00] lot that, um, in kind of cities and like down in Manta, which is one of the cities that we didn't go to, a lot of the people are a lot fairer skinned.

And so there's

Tyler: More European looking.

Maddie Meddings: a big divide. Um, and it's quite palpable apparently. Um, so yeah, it's not without its struggles, but I think for her, she kind of. You know, at least she felt like, especially in places like Monte, she was just surrounded by people that, you know, are like her and look like her and, and speak like her and, and are friends with her.

And so yeah, it felt like she feels like she's really been accepted there.

Tyler: I

Lucy Small: I think also the real, I was just gonna say the real, the really, there's such a strong emphasis on family and community in Ecuador, like that's so important. Um, and you, we saw that with Mimi Barona, who's like a really amazing surfer and, but you know, she's talking about qualifying for the Olympics, but the most important thing is her family.

And, [00:43:00] um, and so I, I felt like there was definitely a sense from Patch's family. Like they were so lovely. None of them could speak English, so we were having like, um, quite limited communication with our uncles. Yeah, I mean, it was fun. And it was fun and they would just. But it was like, they were just, and you know, she was just developed by this beautiful family that had just gone, you know, it's my fellow's daughter.

And, um, they just like, yeah, they, she just had a place there so clearly, and that was really so nice to see and, and so nice to just like be there with them and it was so warm and, yeah.

Tyler: I was so psyched to see Mompiche, 'cause I'd been there like 20 something years ago with my brother and I remember it was, it was like a 10, 12 hour bus ride and then another ferry ride and. Was such like, I remember my brothers, he had a Patagonia board, and this is like 20 years ago, and it was like revolutionary epoxy [00:44:00] material and they put like, uh, I think a fridge on top of his board on top of the bus, and the board held up.

No worries, no problem. It was quite impressive, you know, but like he, he wrote this song while going there with his, uh, ex, now ex-Wife, but like his, his, uh, you know, partner then. And they made this song called Well, and it was based off of, um, off this other song and he is like, welcome to Mompiche Sex Fresh Fish ceviche. And just, and he would sing it like while we were there, we'd sing it to people while we were waiting for the boat. And they were just like laughing and everything.

Lucy Small: That's so funny.

Tyler: It was. Yeah, it was, it was, it was good. But I remember just that left was so amazing. Oh my God. It was so, such a beautiful setup and beautiful beach and yeah, the, the whole community there had more of a [00:45:00] Caribbean vibe, almost like it felt like I was more in, in a, on the Caribbean side of, of like Costa Rica or something even.

So it was really fascinating to see the, the cultural differences there too, which I really enjoyed. And, and I think you guys do a great job of showing that. And, and as Ecuador is, is this very diverse country with multiple cultures. Uh, and you do a really nice job of kind of exposing that and showing it. Wanted to see what did the political climate feel like in Ecuador, uh, at the moment when you were there? Um, I've read like. There's a lot of gang, a lot of unfortunate gang activity that's been happening. And I know the president, uh, Daniel Noboa has been trying to copy que LE's, uh, playbook a little bit, and it hasn't been going very well apparently. So I was just curious, like, how did you feel, uh, traveling through there? How'd you feel? Did you feel safe [00:46:00] as women traveling as well? Uh, I'm just curious like what the state felt like.

Lucy Small: Yeah, well, it's, it didn't start off very well, um, like the, the, the day before. So we flew, we went, we were there in January 20, 24. And the day before we were meant to fly. I was flying to la. Maddie was flying from London. Patrick was already there. Um, there was sort of like major, um, security situation kind of kicked off, which was basically.

Uh, some member of a gang escaped from prison and guy kill, um, which is a city in the south and a state of emergency for 60 day state of emergency was declared. There was like a, a curfew brought in, military deployed throughout the country. There was different opportunistic kind of, um, looting and that type of thing going on, and it was all in the news [00:47:00] everywhere.

And we are just like about to fly. Like I'm sitting there at my partner's family home having dinner the night before I go to the airport and it's like, state of emergency declared an Ecuador and they're going, are going there tomorrow. And, and so we were kind of,

Tyler: Like,

uh, yeah.

Lucy Small: yeah. I was like, oh, I'm pretty sure it's just media hype.

It'll be fine. And then we were all talking, going, oh my God, what's going on? And then by the time I got to LA. There had been, um, like some, some kind of hostage taking that happened. And um, so it was, yeah, like li these journal, these news reporters live on air, um, got taken and um, but they didn't get hurt or anything.

And they got returned thankfully. But it was very, and people were just like, all the embassies were advising their citizens to, um, [00:48:00] reconsider need to travel and that kind of thing. People were just leaving in droves and like tourists and, um, we were in, I was in la Maddie hadn't flown out yet, and I was just like, had been awake all night and have to figure out what we're gonna do.

Um, so we ended up just delaying for one day and then we flew in and it was. Like, we didn't experience or feel any, anything like that there. There was lots of people were kind of, there was a bit of tension in the air at times. People were a bit nervous about things and especially like a car of women, like with a bunch of, um, expensive equipment was probably out insurance, right Maddie?

Maddie Meddings: Yeah.

Lucy Small: yeah. From, in terms of like being a traveler there, like it was really, um, it actually felt really important at the time to then be doing what we were doing because there was a lot of people who were [00:49:00] sharing about, you know, that is not the real Ecuador, uh, what you see in what you're seeing in the news right now.

That's not what we're about because this kind of gang activity, cartel activity has only really grown there in recent years. Like it hysterically has never been involved in that. And um, it's just the kind of like. Trade routes from Columbia, moving drugs through there and that kind of thing. Um, and it's, yeah, I mean it's interconnected with so many issues in the country, but, um, I think there's a lot of pe Yeah.

People were just going, this is not what we're about and we wanna, we wanna be known for what we're about, which is, you know, our beautiful nature and our amazing cultures. And so it felt then that what we were doing was, we really wanted to be able to share that too, um, in the film. And like, we didn't, we didn't end up including that, that that had happened on the trip, like in the lead up to the trip in the film.

Because it felt like, what?

Tyler: part of the story.

Lucy Small: [00:50:00] Yeah. And like, what are we trying to say with that? You know? So it's just kind of, we were talking about whether, or.

Tyler: Yeah. Yeah, it, well, it wouldn't have served a purpose, you know, like it wouldn't have really served, uh, the story at all. Like, it just would've been like, I think, confusing more than anything. Uh, you know, and it's, you know, and it's sad like that, that this is like happening to them, you know, this, this whole, you know, cartel thing, which is in essence the US' fault 'cause of certain policies in the past and all of that sort of stuff.

And, um, you know, so it's a real shame and, uh, it's such a beautiful country and so cool. And like food was, was really interesting too. Did you, did you sample any cooey while you were there?

Maddie Meddings: Oh, who's cooey? I don't know.

Tyler: [00:51:00] Uh, I believe it's hamster

Maddie Meddings: Oha.

Tyler: or, or,

Lucy Small: oh.

Tyler: yeah. Guinea pig. Guinea pig. Sorry. Guinea pig. Yeah. The, yeah, because I, that's where I had my Guinea pig was in, was in Ecuador. I remember my brother and I, again, it's served and you know, it's like they don't try to hide it

either. Like they left the teeth on and everything.

Maddie Meddings: thatto. We saw a guy like cooking them up on the side of the road, like rotisserie chicken style.

Tyler: Yeah. Yep, yep, yep. But otherwise, the food is great there. Like the

food is delicious. I'm not like shitting on Ecuadorian food at all. I love Ecuadorian food, don't get me wrong. I was just like, uh, I remember having, that was like the, the one thing that I remember eating and being like, this was interesting.

Lucy Small: Yeah. I, I think it's an aqui. I think even there, it's an acquired taste.

Tyler: Yeah,

Maddie Meddings: yeah. [00:52:00] Try it.

Tyler: it's like chicken.

Maddie Meddings: Yeah. What was the, what was the that we had with Patch's family? Loose? I can't remember the name

Lucy Small: Oh, anddo, the

Maddie Meddings: Yeah.

Lucy Small: soup. Oh, so good. Yeah.

Tyler: Really? Oh God.

Lucy Small: And you have it for breakfast. Yeah.

Tyler: Oh wow.

Lucy Small: also the like the, the hot banana breads that you get in banana leaves that you could just buy when you're, when you're driving past. Oh yeah. We ate a lot and Patcha frigging loves food, so we were like going place to place. It's like, we're just going here because there's this yummy thing here and there's this other yummy thing.

So that was great.

Tyler: she's the foodie. All right. Um. I also, I have to ask Lucy, um, [00:53:00] where did you get your snazzy short, John, that you wore in the film with all the really cool print all over it?

It was

Maddie Meddings: we so gypsy Did, it looked like, like, like a, like

Lucy Small: Oh, yeah.

Tyler: made a, a punk zine on a fucking wetsuit.

Lucy Small: looks like a newspaper.

Tyler: Yeah, exactly. I was like, I was like, where'd you get this snazzy suit?

This is cool.

Lucy Small: Yeah, it's pretty loud that, but it's from Salt Gypsy, which is an Australian brand. And um, I had to have the, um, yeah, Ecuadorian stunt is like harsh, like it is, I mean, you're on the equator, I guess, and there was no sunscreen that was strong enough to block that against my skin. Maddie had to spend like all this time photoshopping my sunburn out, so,

Tyler: Oh,

is that why you look like almost translucent in the film? No,

Lucy Small: [00:54:00] and so I had to wear like long, long legs like swimsuit down to my ankles and like a long armed rash fest and a hat.

Tyler: I

was gonna say the hat kind of clashed with the wetsuit, with the suit a little

Lucy Small: Yeah, I know. I know. It was very bright pink Yeah. But yeah, there's Pata, like Pata. She's all young and stylish and beautiful. And then there's her like daggy mom wearing a newspaper behind it.

Tyler: And I really didn't mean to turn this into like a, like a red carpet, who are you wearing type of thing. I just, I, I love, I really enjoyed it though.

Lucy Small: Okay. Well I'm glad because I, that scene is so funny. I'm just like, the people out in the border must have seen me and gone, what is she wearing?

Tyler: Well, no, you know what they're doing is they're thinking is she kook or ke, [00:55:00] you know, is it

like,

Maddie Meddings: I also you very bronze

Tyler: she gonna be a kook or is she gonna be like a current who just wears random shit, but looks awesome, you know, no matter what

Maddie Meddings: skin. Your skin was used to it by the end of the trip. By the time we were in galas, you were sweet. You were like golden and swimmers and on a boat living your best life. So.

Tyler: flopping around like a seal on the deck.

Lucy Small: Yeah. But yeah, the first part was a punish.

Tyler: I wanna actually talk about this. Like for you as a filmmaker, how is it getting to go to the Galapagos and film there? That must be like a film like up there on the filmmaker's checklist and cinematographer's checklist. Just to be able to get the lighting, the animals, the water, everything is like, so picture perfect.

And I was curious like how that was as a filmmaker for you to kind of come about, come upon this and have to, [00:56:00] you know, shoot all of it. Like it must be overwhelming.

Maddie Meddings: Yeah, it was, it was overwhelming. I think what we kind of, I sort of knew that that would be the case beforehand. So we had, we actually got another guy in called Eric Ramos and he was our like, second shooter for that trip. Um, because he is like an amazing underwater photographer and filmer, that's like his kind of, that's mainly what he does.

And so I knew, 'cause I shoot surfing all the time, but I don't shoot like diving stuff that much. It's only something. Something that I've started doing quite recently. Um, and I love it, but I'm sort of realistic about my skill level. Like I kind of, I just not that experienced and I knew that that would be like a really important part of the Galapagos section is just highlighting the different kind of wildlife and marine creatures.

Um, and so yeah, it was really, it was really great to have him and like know that we've, you know, I kind of, I did manage to capture a lot as well, [00:57:00] but it was so nice just knowing that he was getting some really incredible, like, underwater shots too. Um, so that kind of took the pressure off and also it meant like I got Dale off there, which was amazing.

Tyler: And you got to surf a

Lucy Small: It was like the best surf day of the entire trip. Maddie actually got to surf.

Tyler: How, how good were the waves, by the way? Just in general on the trip, but e but Galapagos like. Looks, I mean that one setup shot you have from above with like a left and a right. Oh my God. Like notebook drawing.

Lucy Small: Yeah, it was, it was so sick. It was really, um, it was quite funny though, like something that we hadn't really, I guess thought about too much before going on the trip was having a short border and a long border. Um.

Tyler: just gonna ask how

Lucy Small: so one, one, al, one person always has to be sacrificed to the other person's needs. So, so when we were in Mompiche, [00:58:00] you know, it was, it was really small and it was beautiful longboarding.

So Patrick was having to kind of surf longboard and like just get around that. And then when we were in Galapagos, I was having to just be the sacrificial lamb, getting axed on the big steps.

Tyler: Were you wearing a leash? Were you, were you

going leash less?

Lucy Small: I was wearing a leash 'cause it's very rocky on the shores there. Um, yeah, but we did, I did have managed to have, um, one or a couple of leash lists. Sessions. But, um, we had some good swell and we were surfing this left that kind of breaks along this rocky shore, like, um, and you have to, you have to go there by boat.

And, um, there was, it, it's very sucky on the inside. And so when we had some swell, like it was actually the only way for me to really surf that wave was I had to just take off on the big wide set. So I wasn't going through the sake [00:59:00] section as much, so I was just like bombing it

Maddie Meddings: Yeah.

Lucy Small: on my single thing. Too. Single thin, heavy board. Oh God.

Yeah, it was fun. It was awesome. But yeah, seem even bigger, you know?

Yeah, by the last day I was going, oh my God, I just wanna surf like a chill wave. And because Patrick and I had to kind of sit quite close together because we were obviously having, and luckily we had two Filmers who did separate. We could one person shooting each surfer.

But, um, I like she, and she's a, obviously a really freaking good surfer. Good shortboard. So she's like sitting really deep out.

Tyler: She's like, why are you sitting on the shoulder lu, Maddie? How do

you, how do you direct the surfers? Do you direct them when, when you're in the water and like shooting, do you, are you [01:00:00] like, now we didn't get the shots, stay out, or you just take what you can get? Or are you saying do a cutback in front of me? I'm always curious like how people capture surfing footage and whether it's intentional or passive in the sense.

Maddie Meddings: I think we generally do communicate quite a lot when we're out there. So usually like if loose GI or patch could get wave, like as they paddle back out, we would maybe have a bit of a chat and it kind of depended on the session and what we were after. Like, um, usually we'd have a bit of a chat before they got in and be like, this is the shots that we're missing, this is what we need.

Um, and me and Eric, every time we're kind of figuring out who was gonna go where and who would be shooting on what lens and how, you know, who was on the inside, who's getting the kind of drop-in shots. Um, so yeah, there is kind of like planning that goes into it. But also we surfed in the Galagos. We pretty much served twice a day, like every day.

Like the, there we were in the war all the time. Um, and you couldn't really shoot [01:01:00] from land. Like the one day that we shot from land was the day that we hiked there, which took hours. Um. And so, and the only other option would be like trying to paddle in onto these boulders, like with all the kit in the dry back.

And a lot of it we got from our sponsor and it wasn't our kit, so it was like, I, I just didn't wanna do,

Tyler: Yeah, and he didn't want any of those lizards crawling up behind you and just being like

Maddie Meddings: um,

Tyler: that. That would be my concern there. I'd be like.

Maddie Meddings: the marina. so yeah. So it was a lot of like, it just kind of, yeah. Just kind of figuring it out whilst we were

Lucy Small: It's definitely collaborative, isn't it? Like you're sort of going, oh, where's the best section for you to be? And you just like always talking out there about, um, where to sit and what, like what each of our positioning is and that kind of thing. Um, but I feel like yeah, [01:02:00] we did so much that we just kind of had our groove by the end.

Maddie Meddings: Yeah.

Tyler: You were, you were already like, on the same wavelength you could read each other's faces almost. You know,

Lucy Small: Yeah. Yeah. Maddie would raise an eyebrow and I'd be like, yeah, right. I'll,

Tyler: Oh, you want an air? Okay. I, I once did, uh, like a commercial shoot for, for like when I did this film festival and one of our sponsors had us go to like the Dominican Republic and I got my friend to film and I was star of it, and we surfed and he made me surf for six hours straight until blood was like dripping down my

Lucy Small: oh my God.

Tyler: and thigh.

He wouldn't let me go in. I'd be like, can I go in? And he's like, no, we didn't get the shot. And it was

Lucy Small: Oh my God.

Tyler: I felt like we were, we started acting like kinsky and, uh, you know, and Herzog, you know, just being, oh no, we'll go this way. No, you go back out and surf. And I was like, no, I wanna go in, [01:03:00] I'm done. And he's like, oh, we didn't get the shot.

So, and I've heard like Jack McCoy used to do stuff like that with like Sonny

Garcia and all of 'em would be like, no, you gotta hit the lip here. You know?

Maddie Meddings: I think

Lucy Small: We were like, oh, sorry.

Maddie Meddings: it, well, I feel like, you know, at the end of the day, it's a surf film, but we are not, I don't think that, you know, we are not, it, we weren't pushing the boundaries of what surf filmmaking is. You know, that was never the you're not doing surf porn. You know,

Tyler: we're, you know, it's, it's,

Maddie Meddings: it's adding to the next bigger narrative of the film and obviously celebrating like you guys as well, and, and like the other, um, people who surf too.

But yeah, it's not like, I think there's not so much pressure, like we are not kind of, that's not what we're going for necessarily anyway, but it's just a, it's a massive bonus when we get loads of great clips. So it's kind of, yeah.

Tyler: I think you [01:04:00] should release a B side of just like the surfing, you know, or something. And like, but I, I, I also, yeah, like, I mean the surfing is the sugar for the story, you

know, and for, for the medicine basically. And, but it, it was beautiful sugar you guys were making. So,

Lucy Small: thank you.

Tyler: not to sound, I didn't mean to sound cre creepy or anything either in that, you know.

Lucy Small: We were also just like filming for so long, you know, like it was four weeks that we were shooting every day. And so like, we had to basically create the environment where everyone could communicate the limits of where they were at, like physically, mentally, emotionally, um, and so you couldn't be like pushing people, oh, you've gotta stay out pat, catch more waves.

It's like, she's like, I've been, I been filming for, oh been six. [01:05:00] and so yeah, it was very much like, if you don't wanna do the session. Then don't do it because you need to, like if you're feeling tired or whatever, don't like have the morning off so you can do the afternoon or have the day off so that you're fresh tomorrow, because otherwise you just keep on going and going, going and you're just getting worse and worse and worse and less able to like, you know, last till the end of the trip.

Tyler: How do you feel this film is gonna be received in like the, the greater surf world? You know, are you, like, how are you feeling about the surf world in general right now and to be releasing stuff like this? I do you feel like the surfing world is like a supportive, being supportive of, of these types of stories at all?

Or do you feel like you're still having to like push people to kind of recognize

Lucy Small: I mean, I hope that people understand it. I feel like. It's [01:06:00] definitely got more of a documentary vibe to it than like most surfing genre films, like surf film genre films have, like, it's, it's, yeah, it's got a big portion of the film is not even in the ocean, you know, it's like in the mountains, in the forest.

But, um, so I like, I'm really not sure I know that, I know that there are gonna, people gonna be people who understand it and appreciate it. I think that there will probably be people who might not get it. I, but I don't know. It's part of the, the nerves of, of putting it out there. It's like, you know, we've gone for something quite complex and it's got a lot of emotional elements to it and it's very, um, it's.

Strong political kind of, um, message in, in it. And, um, and it's a surf film, so

Tyler: Yeah.

Lucy Small: I think we've being ambitious with like, hoping that people are ready to meet us where we're at. Um, but yeah. How do you, how do you [01:07:00] feel about it, Mads? What do you

Maddie Meddings: Yeah, I'm, I'm the same, to be honest. I, I honestly don't, haven't really thought about whether, like, how it would be received. I just, I think just because it was just being such a focus on get, like getting it done and getting it out there. And I think this time around, I feel so much more confident in feeling like it's good.

Like, with Yammer I was just so unsure and it was so new and so scary. And, and so I honestly, like, before Yammer, I didn't know, I was almost scared for people to watch it. Whereas this time I feel really excited for people to watch it because I'm, I, I'm, you know, we're so happy with how it's turned out and, and what we've made.

Um, but yeah, it's such a good question. I don't know. I think it.

Tyler: I.

Maddie Meddings: I mean it's, yeah, like everyone I've spoken to about it has been so supportive and, um, yeah, so, so nice about it. And [01:08:00] um, I think surf films are starting to change a lot in terms of like bringing other narratives along with it and it not just being the sport element anymore.

Um, so yeah, I dunno. I hope people like it.

Tyler: I, I mean, how was Yama received? How did you feel Yama was received? Because, I mean, I thought it was,

it seemed like it had got a great reception and

people were, you've got a lot of great sold out screenings it sounds like too.

Maddie Meddings: Yeah, it was

Lucy Small: Yeah. Yeah. It was like, it far exceeded my expectations. Like I. I didn't, yeah, I mean, Yammer just, it's still going. You know, it was showed at a film festival like last weekend and, um, it, yeah, it, it felt like, um, it wa it had such an amazing reception and, and I think it was people just appreciated learning about, um, like those, the women in Ghana and the girls surfing there.

And, um, [01:09:00] and it was, it was nice to have something different, I think, for people. And yeah, it was, it was awesome. So I, I, you know, I hope that we can build on that response with this one. Definitely. Um, but yeah, Yammer, we were just like, whoa, like going everywhere, you know, is everywhere.

Tyler: You know, well, I feel like you guys are now with this second one, like you're starting to build this body of work that I think is also telling a much larger story. And I'm, I don't know if you guys are already working or thinking about your next project, even though you're just finishing this, but, but I, uh, but I know creatives, you're always thinking about the next thing anyway to a certain extent. So I, I'm curious, like, do you see like your partnerships between you two at least? Like do you see guys building off of this and creating a larger body of work, telling a larger [01:10:00] story of, of feminism and surfing and indigenous culture?

Lucy Small: Um. Yeah, probably. Probably.

Tyler: Yeah, sure. Why not? Let's do.

Lucy Small: It's very hard to think about the next project. It's very hard to like really comprehend any idea of doing another project. Like with this being, you know, we're like a week away from the global premier of Sabo and it's been like, we started planning it in the middle of 2023, so it's almost two years. And so I'm just trying to like, I've always got so many ideas and I'm in the fortunate position that stories just like come to me, like find me now.

I get, I think, so I'm always going like, basically I'm like, I need, you know, what happened to Anthony Bourdain, how someone just went, let's start making this show with an Anthony [01:11:00]Bourdain. That's what I need. I need a network

Tyler: No, you just

need to get on YouTube. You need to get on YouTube and TikTok and start, uh, you know, making content and, uh, getting users and, uh, become an influencer, you know?

Lucy Small: well anyway, but, but for now I'm just trying to keep all those thoughts at bay and just focus on getting this film out there and then, and see what happens and, and focus on tour touring the film this year to hopefully bringing it around and bring it back to Ecuador and things.

Tyler: Well, I, I would love to see you guys continue, like these types of stories to build off of, because I, I, no one's doing this for, for women in surfing. You know, like who's, who's covering, who's doing it other than like the WSL type of stuff. And I think it's a, a voice that is, uh, you know, you guys have a very good voice. [01:12:00] Both figuratively and, and also in your actual, you know, narration, you know,

Lucy Small: Thank you.

Tyler: you're welcome. But I think, like, I think there's, there's a need for it. There's a lot more women surfers these days who are looking for this sort of stuff, so I would love to see that continue.

Um, another question. Yeah, go on.

No going.

What was will

Maddie Meddings: I why more, I've got two ideas that I'm already like, Hmm.

Tyler: Oh,

Maddie Meddings: you've already told me about, like another one that we both already talked about. So I think it's just a bit, I think we're both a bit burnt out, like from the, in a, in a good way. But it's, um, it's, it's been a lot of, a lot of hours of, um, completely like immersing ourselves in this.

So, um, yeah, I mean, I can't see a really up and then being like, no, probably not gonna go do [01:13:00] that.

Lucy Small: Yeah.

Maddie Meddings: It was so much bigger, the, the kind of, the ability to like getting the funding was so hard and so You Mecca is your sponsor, is that like the presenting?

Yeah.

Lucy Small: Yeah. And then we have a bunch of smaller brands, smaller, um, sponsors too. Like we, we ended up having 10 sponsors and Meccas kind of, they gave the biggest portion. Um, so yeah, they, they're an Australian beauty company and, um, I have done some stuff with them before and so they just jumped on board. Um, and that's kind of like, yeah, I guess going outside of surfing to get to raise the money, um, is what we ended up having to do.

Tyler: no money in surfing these days, so.

Maddie Meddings: Yeah.

Lucy Small: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um. But yeah, the raising, the raising the money was such a process. I mean, it was a really good learning experience and we did manage to get there in the end. And we [01:14:00] were trying to, um, you know, only work with companies that shared our values and the values of the film. And, um, and that's proved, um, I mean, it just added another layer because even if, you know, there was like one particular sponsorship that, um, we were offered that was a pretty significant amount of money, it would've taken us to our budget.

But then, um, that turned out that, yeah, they had some pretty bad ties in the, in the back end of the company and we had to turn that down. Um, and then it, like, it took like. A year or more to raise that money again.

And they were like, yeah, I don't know. I looked up like the CEO, we, we were background checking them and there was like all these, had all these ties to the Israeli, [01:15:00] um, military in the end. So it was like panic stations. Oh my god.

Tyler: How difficult is that? I mean, it must be so frustrating to, to not, it must be, it is so frustrating to have morals and not want to support something, but then needing the funding and then like, how far do you dig? And like, it must be so. Yeah, like exacerbating where you can't, you're just like, I mean, I do this all the time now with, you know, because I'm, you know, supporting BDS and it's like, oh no, I can't do this now. Geez. It's like really hard. Uh, super difficult. And it sucks because 20 years ago you could have gone to the surf industry and you could have gotten support and you wouldn't feel as dirty or bad about it at least. But now it's like, [01:16:00] oh, so aware of everything. It makes it really difficult.

Maddie Meddings: Yeah, I think you're

Lucy Small: I.

Maddie Meddings: waking up like, you know, what's, what's important and what isn't. Because ultimately, like ev, every industry has its issues and, and no, no, nobody that's producing goods really is. E even the most sustainable brands, even if they're producing something, they are still encouraging capitalism and consumption, which is like problematic in its own way.

But there are a lot of people who are genuinely trying to do it in a really sustainable way. And we are, we are really lucky that there a lot of those people back to us. And, um, and we have to work with them. Like, I'm actually making sustainability videos for Dry r at the moment. And they're, and they're amazing, and Aire are amazing and, um, they're all, all of them, all of our sponsors are just, they're really like going the extra mile to put their money where their mouth is and, and make it happen.

[01:17:00] So it's kind of, you, you just have to pick your line and like, you know, ultimately the tech that to make the film is, is problematic. Tech is problematic, but you.

Tyler: Traveling is problematic, you

know? But

Maddie Meddings: But you have to have to choose what's more important, telling the story or just not doing it. And in a world where, you know, people are telling stories all the time, why not tell one that we feel like is really important and Will might actually help people feel inspired.

And um, yeah, so it's kind of, it's just constant decision making.

Lucy Small: Yeah, but I think it, it felt so natural also, like we were like, we can't, we, you know, like we can't have. Yeah, it just makes so much sense for us to be telling the story of, of envi environmentalism and indigenous rights and that kind of thing. And, and then to make sure that the money that is supporting that and the brands that we are promoting through, like by having their logos in the credits and that [01:18:00] kind of thing, um, that they share our values.

Because otherwise you sort of, I don't know, it's, it's hard to turn money down or be making those decisions, but it's even harder to be like, compromising on your values and supporting something that you don't, and promoting something that you don't stand for. So, um, yeah, it definitely does. It limits, makes your options more limited on who you can approach and work with.

But, you know, we, we also have like an organic coffee company that's a board. Sort of right towards the end of the post-production. Um, and so we've got like a really beautiful suite of brands that are just.

Tyler: It's awesome. I wanted to discuss, uh, something I was thinking about while watching this film, and I was curious like your thoughts on it. Like we, you know, [01:19:00] 50 years ago, 40 years ago, 30 years ago even, there was like this discussion, at least in the us like we would say, oh, the US is, its melting pot and everyone comes here to, you know, comes from other cultures and we blend in and we assimilate and. I feel like the world is changing and I feel like people are now starting to abandon that philosophy more and start to look at, look at it more as a mosaic bowl or a salad bowl. That there's some theories I've read about this and I think what was interesting is like patches story, uh, again, going back to this, uh, you know, her story of rediscovering her indigenous roots and. Wanting to, you know, find that and, and bring that back and not lose it, basically to be able to kind of hold that preserve the distinct cultural identities within a society. And I'm curious, like, if you feel like that is [01:20:00] kind of indeed the case because you're, you're both very socially minded and kind of aware of what's happening in the world and, you know, are covering this kind of topic.

I'm curious, like, do you feel like that is the case? You're starting to see people rediscover their, their indigenous roots and want to not lose those things in the society that they're, they're moving into or a culture that they're moving into and how you see that happening in Australia and, and even the US where we see like people get upset about that, you know, because it's like, this is America, you know, type of attitude.

Maddie Meddings: Mm.

Lucy Small: Yeah. I mean, Australia has such a, um, like, such a, I mean all settler societies do, but Australia's history with this is, is really intense. Like up until. 1972 or something. It was that we had the white Australia policy, which was basically the only people with white skin could migrate and, and, [01:21:00] and live in Australia.

Um, and meanwhile having, you know, aboriginal people who have been part, always part of the Australian land, um, only recognized as human beings in 1967. So there has been a huge, uh, a, a huge history of assimilation. So migrants being forced to assimilate into the umbrella, the white like dominant umbrella culture, but also of segregation where it's like, um, sort of pushed aboriginal people off their peoples, off their land, um, and made them live in settlements outside of towns and that type of thing.

Um, and so Australia is constantly in a state of trying to figure out what our. Is, and it's, um, and like, you know, Trumpy politics just infiltrate the world everywhere. And that's, you know, it's, we've got an election coming up, [01:22:00] um, in a month and it's, we're seeing, it's like we've got a labor government at the moment, but the, um, the conservative opposition is trying to go down this really kind of populist like way of doing politics and campaigning and, and some of the things that the, he like that, that, that are being said now is like winding back some of the very small gains that have been made in terms of aboriginal land rights and recognition.

And because it's trying to play that what, like trying to take a, a page out of Trump's playbook and, and going, are we gonna divide and conquer? And we're, you know, like we have, there's customs like a Welcome to Country, which is. Where, um, you know, if you have an event or that kind of thing, then, um, like this historical tradition that aboriginal people have always done, like, you do it now, you know, and, and they are trying to say that, you know, the government's wasted millions of dollars on welcome to [01:23:00] countries and it's actually racist to do a welcome to country and blah, blah, blah.

That type of stuff. And like, yeah, I think, I think that there is definitely been an evolution in terms of, um, the acceptance of duality within our societies. Like that there is, being Australian means many different things for many different people. I think that that has definitely grown. Like I've noticed that since I was a kid and that kind of thing that, um, those identities.

But there's, there's still. Oh God. There's just so many problems that it's not gonna be solved by the way that they doing.

Tyler: Yeah. Wow. It was, it was, it was more of just a conversation starter, you know, like, it, it's, I don't know, like it's, it's, I find it to be interesting 'cause it was, it used to be the mindset, and this is the colonial mindset of like, oh, we should melt in, we should form [01:24:00] this big homogenous culture basically, as opposed to holding onto individual identities.

And you know, I know here in the US there's definitely a lot of people who are more so like, this is America. We need to preserve our values or whatever. And, and it's like,

yeah, okay, you, you can, but don't tell other people not to preserve theirs either.

And if they want to come here and it's like, you guys have no problem having the St.

Patrick's Day parade. You know, so why can't

other cultures have those traditions to celebrate as well?

Maddie Meddings: Yeah. I think there's definitely something to be said for like, you know, we, we definitely moved past that era of sort of missionaries visiting really rural places and trying to convert people. I think, I feel like that mindset

Lucy Small: I mean, that still happens, but

Maddie Meddings: it so much less because people are.

Tyler: Or obvious, less obvious.

Maddie Meddings: Yeah. Less obvious, but potentially more [01:25:00] accepting. I think also the climate crisis has a massive part to play too, because the, you know, everyone is con well, a lot of people are very concerned and I think that through a lot of indigenous wisdom becoming much more available for people to understand through media and books and social media.

And because of the fact that, um, you know, in a lot of indigenous communities, they have had to sort of like, reach out and have also, you know, are having to have more relationships with, um, like, you know, the kind of, I don't wanna say the outside world, but the, the, you know, non-indigenous other indigenous cultures outside of

Lucy Small: Yeah, the global community and things. Yeah.

Maddie Meddings: yeah.

So, so that, so that means that, you know, ultimately, like we are kind of learning that. Their approach is often the one that is the most beneficial to the planet and is the most, [01:26:00] is the, is the right course of action. And is, is the, you know, we are constantly coming back to things that people have been practicing for years.

And, you know, you can see it in like in wellness and in food and in kind of, uh, agriculture. Like the, the traditional way is often the best way. And we have come very far from it. And now I think a lot of people are rediscovering that. And so I think that's why it, there is this feeling of preserving cultures because we're actually just remembering that, you know, maybe they were the, the kind of, it was the better way of living anyway

Tyler: Well, I, I had this thought while I was watching it, and, and it was when you, you guys went into the jungle and, and, and Katie was her name, uh, in the, in the, the, uh, I forgot her name. I'm sorry. I'm so

Maddie Meddings: in the Amazon.

Tyler: Uh,

yeah. in the Amazon. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And she's talking about the [01:27:00] rivers and they, the way she talked about them was almost like they had a, they were, uh, people or gods and they a anthropomorphize them.

I think I said that. Right. And what that does is then it, it allows you to treat that body with respect because it's. It's alive, you're acknowledging it, it's life. And I think a lot of indigenous cultures did that. They, they hu, I don't wanna say humanized, but they gave life to all these things, treated them as they were, you know, equals as opposed to just a resource.

Whereas our, our colonial attitude is it's all dehumanized. People are dehumanized, work, labor is dehumanized, like all of that sort of stuff. Whereas, you know, I've noticed like the indigenous cultures treat it like a person, uh, and, and, and or a living being. And that changes your whole relationship to those objects or do nature then, and how you [01:28:00] perceive it and how you treat it with respect.

So it, it was really, I just had that thought when I, when she mentioned, uh, the rivers and how they, they're, how they looked upon them. It got me thinking about how we need to change our perspective and how we see the world.

Maddie Meddings: And even, even within the co like. I think, you know, even within indigenous practices, there is there, and this is across like, this isn't necessarily just Ecuador as well, but in sort of like in indigenous communities, everywhere there is, there's that constant questioning of how much is too much to extract, like what is the right amount of respect.

Because ultimately to be a person or a creature on the planet, you do have to extract a bit to live, to eat, to kind of make a bed, to make a home. But kind of, it is that constant questioning of is how much can I take and what can I then in turn give back to look after? Which is [01:29:00] one of the messages that I think has been lost a lot in like the kind of the west that you just, that there is no giving back or very little and

Lucy Small: Hmm

Maddie Meddings: it's not enough, it's too much extraction and not enough giving back.

Tyler: Yeah, Yeah, the balance. The balance is lost, and I guess a lot of indigenous communities are sort of focusing on balance as a priority.

Yeah. I, I, I think that's ultimately what we need to strive for, whether we can reach it. Well, we'll see. I wanna also, I wanna touch on one last thing and, and I, it was Mimi Barona, who's just an amazing, uh, you know, character in this film. And it got me thinking like, what is the female surfing population like in Ecuador?

Were there a lot more women [01:30:00] surfing there? Did you find her, or was it more of a rarity to be a a, a female surfing in Ecuador?

Lucy Small: There's definitely, it's still pretty small. I think. Um, women's surfing is like, there are some really good surfers. Mimi, she's amazing. She's been to the Olympics and ripping by yeah.

Tyler: Holy shit.

Lucy Small: Like she is sick and she's, but she's kind of like pioneered this path of competitive surfing. Um, she's like the first Ecuadorian of any gender, but the first, especially the first Ecuadorian woman to really have gone to this competitive heights that she has reached.

Um, and so she's kind of opened this door that now there's starting to be younger ones coming through to kind of walk through that door. Um, but yeah, there's, it's still pretty, pretty small women surfing there and I feel like it's gonna grow a lot and especially with having people like Patra now and, you know, there's more and more kind of, um, sort of people that are joining the ranks and, [01:31:00] and growing and fostering it.

So, um, yeah. But there are some, some really good younger girls that we, um, we surfed with around Monita, which is kind of like the main, it's got the biggest surfing population, that's where Mia lives. Um, and yeah, it'll be exciting to see what, what happens next with women.

Tyler: Yeah, and I love, and, and Nini was awesome and her story was really touching and, and emotional and really well done. Um, the other thing is you, you guys, uh, I noticed one of your producers was, uh, Rebecca Cooley as well, former guest as well.

Maddie Meddings: Ah, yeah.

Lucy Small: Yeah. Yeah. Becky, she's, she's amazing. She's like our fairy godmother.

Tyler: Isn't she the best? She's so cool.

Maddie Meddings: a couple, and then we had, um, I don't know if you've heard of Right to Rome before, but we had Lucy Jane, who is a, um, an amazing filmmaker as well. [01:32:00] Um, and she, she was kind of also our fairy godmother throughout. Um, Becky came on board a little bit later, sort of like during the edit process, but Lucy was involved from the beginning and just helped consult with the storyline.

And, um, she was the one that was kind of like, okay, you, you've got patches story and then you're speaking to four women, and that's, that's a lot of storylines that you're gonna have to rethink about how, and we were like, oh yeah,

Tyler: Oh yeah, I guess

so. Better to have a lot of stories to edit down than to have no stories

or have to make

Lucy Small: Yeah. Yeah. And I think also, you know, it's like after going on the trip and then learning about how, like there is not one single Ecuadorian story that we could have told, like, like that Ecuador is such a diverse place that almost by the, having the structure of the film in that way, it's part of telling that, that story, that it's kind of, there's lots of people living in [01:33:00] different ways and it's not possible to just kind of put, show that through one, one story.

So, um, but yeah, having Lucy was awesome. She was like, um, I don't wanna say therapist, but

Maddie Meddings: Yeah.

Lucy Small: a little bit, she was like, she was like a counselor when we were we playing around with everything.

Tyler: I think you all need to like start a big like production company or something where, you know, all of you combine together and just be like, we're the authorities on telling women's stories in action. Sports and sports. Like just dominate. You know,

Lucy Small: Yeah, that, that, I would love to see that.

it's such a, it was such a nice collaborative process, wasn't it, Matt? It's like working with Lucy and having Becky and, and just kind of going, yeah, we've just got this group of women who were all helping each other out, and, I don't know, it was so nice and it just felt so collaborative.

Maddie Meddings: [01:34:00] Yeah.

Tyler: I love that because I also feel like in a lot of times in our culture, like the, the, the tension between women, women is exploited on TV and film and stuff like that. And so it's, it's nice to, to be seen like this collaboration where is none of the, the bullshit that, that, like a lot of media tends to push for ratings and such. You know, I'm talking to you Real Housewives shows 90

day fiance's. Okay. any of that. Um, yeah, it was, it flowed so well, like, and I guess mad tonight 'cause we both, it was our second project of working together that we just kind of have our creative flow. And I think we were both a bit more confident this time around. Like me, especially, I felt like you should be. in the, in the process of doing YAMA rights, it was so much of like, oh, I don't really know.

Lucy Small: I don't [01:35:00] know. And, and now I, I feel like going into this one I was like, okay, I've actually got a few ideas. And it was cool because I could be like, Maddie, I think we should try this and not feel like. Self-conscious to put my ideas out there. You're gonna, they suck, you know? Um, and mad to always give it a go.

But yeah, I felt like we just had really, really good creative flow the whole, whole time, pretty much.

Maddie Meddings: Yeah.

Lucy Small: Um, I love it. I love it. Uh, so where can our listeners, where will they be able to find this film eventually? Uh, what's the plan? The rollout? Let's, let's, uh, plug everything right now and let all the listeners know where, where they're gonna be able to find it, where to keep an eye out for you guys. All of that good stuff.

So it's having its global premiere on the 8th of April in Sydney. And, and then Patra and I, we, we are taking the film on tour nationally, so we're going, [01:36:00] um, all up the East coast to Yamba, Byron, gold Coast, Toki, and, and over to WA to Perth, um, and back to my hometown, which is gonna be great. And then mad and I doing the uk What are.

Maddie Meddings: Hey, we're starting off in London, so the Premier is in, in the uk. Premier is in London. And then, um, we are just firming up one showing that's gonna. Probably be in the northeast of the uk and then we're coming back down. We're going to Bristol, and then we're going to North Devon. And then we're going to Cornel and yeah, just making a whole trip of You gonna show it at the Wave Pool at Bristol.

No, they actually don't do well. No. Then we are not screening it there. We are screening it in the aquarium.

Tyler: Ooh, even. Well, that's, that's a

great hope the fish, I hope the fish like the film, you know? I hope they see themselves too.

Maddie Meddings: I think that's the most important [01:37:00] thing.

Tyler: Well, the San Sebastian Surf Film Festival used to have part of their screen screenings with like the, in the aquarium and stuff. So

Lucy Small: Oh, not outta character. Totally makes sense. And it's a great vibe. I love that.

Maddie Meddings: It's not actually, so only the screen is not actually, like, you don't get to see any fish while you're watching it, but you see fish on screen because there's fish.

Tyler: You're, you're priming the, the viewers by going through all the Phish stuff. They're gonna feel like in a good mood to watch it. So they're gonna leave with like a really Yeah, exactly. Is there, uh, is there an Instagram that people can follow or social

Lucy Small: we have Instagram. Let me just look up the handle. Um, it's called, it's called Sabo Surf Film.

Tyler: All

Lucy Small: All one word. Yeah.

Tyler: Your TikTok, I'm [01:38:00] just kidding. Your, your, you got your blue sky all set up

Lucy Small: Oh God. There's too many things.

Maddie Meddings: we probably quite heavily on.

Lucy Small: And then yeah, hopefully.

Tyler: media manager?

Lucy Small: Um, and hopefully we will be able to come to the US later in the year and also go back to ECU Ecuador to show the film in Ecuador. Oh. And it is showing in Ecuador, actually at the La Punta Classic in Monita in the last weekend of April, I'm pretty sure is the date. Um, so yeah, it's all going on.

Tyler: Well, if you do come to the us just remember to delete all your social media apps on your phone so they can't check it when you land. And, uh.

Lucy Small: Yeah. Oh God.

Tyler: Guys, [01:39:00] I, I, I, I really appreciate you reaching out and, and letting me view this film. I, I loved it. I really enjoyed it. It was beautifully shot. It's a wonderful story and uh, I can't wait for people to watch it and see it. I think everyone's gonna be stoked. And if we can do something here in New York, I know the community here would, you guys would be like rock stars, like people would love you and will love this film.

So I think it'd be awesome. Um, yeah. And, uh, yeah, so really appreciate this and uh, listeners, keep an eye out. Sebo surf film at C-E-I-B-O, surf film, uh, on Instagram. Go give it a follow and uh, keep an eye out for it. And anyone listening in Australia or the UK or Ecuador screenings come to you. So keep an eye out.

There's also, uh, a website you can go check out, uh, sebo film.com, C-E-I-B-O film.com as well. [01:40:00] And, uh, thank you all for listening and don't forget to like and subscribe at, uh, swell Season Surf Radio on Instagram. And we're on Blue Sky as well. And uh, we are on a lot of social media and uh, we'll see you all down the line.

And uh, ladies, thank you so much. Such an honor. Such a pleasure.

Maddie Meddings: Thank you.

Lucy Small: Thank you.

Tyler: Our pleasure.